With the speed at which the music servers are advancing, I just can't justify spending $10k ++ on something that will be improved upon within 2 years.
I have to say that Antipodes seams to lag behind Aurender in terms of product production. Lumin and Aurender seam to produce new product as the technology advances. I like that.
I'm not ready for that just yet. But I'm get close..... |
Carpet is out and they are putting in the new floor as I type. Carpenter coming tomorrow to replace the molding and then I start again. It took me 2+ hours to break the room down, and a serious back ache. It'l probably take me a bit less time to put it back since I went out and got some extra slider and gliders.
The Marten Coltrane Tenors arrived today. Lawrence Double Bass on July 1st and the Boenicke will be here on July 3rd. Hansen Prince E's are already here.
I'm dying to hear how the Muzik's sound with the vinyl floor and compare them all. With a list like this, I have to find something I like and will work well in the room. The only other pair I am seriously considering are the Perfect8's.
Fun fun fun. |
Oops. And the Vandy 7 - I have not counted it out just yet. |
Hi Guido. Glad to see your still following my slow decent into madness.
Polyester and glue I believe. Seams to work pretty well now that's it's not infesting the entire floor.
I have the "Wings" diffusers coming in shortly and that should be the last of my treatment changes for a while.
Anyone heard SoulSonic speakers? Small manufacturer out of Eastern Europe. Ribbon design with dynamic woofer mounted on a glass panel. Intriguing, but expensive. Trying to arrange an audition. I'll keep you updated. |
Lol. You are correct sir. I stand embarrassed and corrected. :P
What's a letter amongst friends.
I think CMOS chips are what they used to use for digital cameras. Heh |
Jh901- I have several still points in my system. I found they make the biggest improvement below the amps and the speakers.
I have been advised by several that the Magico Qpods work wonders under pre-amp and source gear. |
Talking about our kids is never "off topic"….
Sorry I haven't posted for a bit in regards to my system….
The carpet was removed last week and it took me a while to put the system back together again. I was able to implement a little tweak suggested by Merrill of Merrill Audio… Go to Ikea and buy a pair of bamboo cutting boards and put them under your amps or your rack; it tightens up the image a tad and they are $15- each… I put two under my main rack.
I kept a 7'x9' piece of the carpet as an area rug but the rest was pulled and replaced with faux wood vinyl - looks pretty good actually.
I set everything back up again and moved all the gear back in and let the system cook for 2 or 3 days…. I also pulled all of my absorption out and just left the diffusers on the walls.
I then brought back in the corner base traps and the side and rear wall absorption one at a time. The side wall absorption was subsequently removed as I didn't like the way it sounded and I pulled off all but the center rear wall absorber as well (and the center one has a wood scatter plate to reflect anything higher then about 200-250 hz.) The corner traps were a must.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!!
Now the room sounds the way it should! And I ordered 10 'Performance Acoustics Labs' Wings as the last step in diffusion. They are fantastic diffusers and are amongst he few diffusers that maintain full diffusion efficacy at 18-24". Most other diffusers needs 6' distance to listener to properly diffuse. They will go on my side walls and adjacent to the center rear wall absorper as I have DEFINITELY decided I like the sound of diffusion over absorption on my first side wall and rear wall reflection points. Absorption clearly gives finer image definition and specificity but you lose air, extension and soundstage width. And rear wall absorption sucks the punch and slam right out of the room (unless you stick to thin 1" diffusers on the rear wall, in which case Im not sure they are doing anything really)…
I will post pictures when I get a chance.
Speaker quest update:
I currently have a list of speakers in the house and am waiting for one last pair to arrive hopefully next Friday…
my current Der Muzik's
Hansen Prince E
Evolution Acoustics Micro Ones
(my Evolution Acoustics MM3's are in crates in my garage if anyone wants to buy them)
Marten Coltrane Tenors
Lawrence Double Bass (hopefully incoming next week)
Boaenicke W8se+
I spent the last 2 days comparing what I have in and trying to narrow them all down. I have definitely learned that with my shorter room and limitations on getting the speakers no more then about 36" off the front wall (wall to back of speaker) that any rear ported speaker is a challenge and probably not the best choice for my room.
my Der Muzik's are sensational and one of the best values in speakers (especially at their pre-owned price), but my totally sealed room with the speakers placed 3' from the short wall is not their ideal setup. Even with the carpet out, they still tend to activate nodes and sound a bit boomy. If I pull them 5' out into the room they sound totally different but I can't without sitting on top of them…. its a shame because if my room where open (like a family room or living room with an open wall) or 4-6' longer then I think I would just keep the Muziks and they would sound absolutely amazing! But for my purposes I made the final decision yesterday that rear ported speakers won't work and that bottom/front port or no port are the way to go in my room based on listening comparisons. They are up for sale and I would love to find them a good home….
I listened extensively to the Evolution Acoustics Micro One speakers. for $4K they are just off the chart ridiculous! Someone told me yesterday they are discontinued, which I think is just a rumor. But they are absolutely amazing and I am might just buy a pair for my office system and sell my Kef R500's which are excellent speakers in their own right…
Boenicke W8se+ arrived yesterday and the dealer could not have been more of a gentlemen. He felt the W13 would probably be a more fair contender for my needs but wanted me to hear the W8SE+ to get a feel for their sound. He also suggested I look into the Soulsonic speakers which look quite intriguing and may work well in my room - I'm continuing a dialogue with the dealer and seeing if he has a demo pair to try… The W8SE+ are SO good for the money. $18K retail and are the no brainer winner for speaker to put in a family room if wife approval factor is a priority! the little 6" driver puts out base that is extended, tight and makes you think there is a sub in the room. And their narrow baffle throws an incredible image and soundstage. In the end, the little 6" driver just couldn't provide the depth, impact and scale that the larger speakers I was listening to can provide. I am holding my final report for 4 days as I let them burn in - the dealer said it makes a big difference…
I currently have the Hansens and the Coltranes in the room and started comparing them yesterday. I have listened to both in the room alone and now compare them head to head. With the vinyl floor everything sounds different so my previous reports of the Hansens are not 100% accurate now, although they are close… When Ive completed my current round I'll report my findings…
I'll compare the winner of those 2 to the Lawrence Double Bass coming next week. I heard the Double Bass at a dealer in North Jersey and they sounded awesome! I look forward to hearing them in my room. they are bottom ported so should connect well with my room.
I only have a few other speakers to consider in the meantime:
Vandy 7
Soulsonic
Perfect8
Scaena
Audio Consulting of Switzerland
I went to John's to hear the Vandy 7 with CTSooner and although they were very good I was not completely taken emotionally by their performance. I am scheduling another visit with John putting his best gear on them and letting them really warm up. If they can't grab me then at least I know I've given them a good solid try…
Audio Consulting, Soulsonic, Scaena and Perfect8 all use ribbons or quasi ribbon tech and have their own special qualities. Some are practically impossible to get into my room to hear them and compare directly with what I currently have to audition. Which, to me, is a problem considering how expensive they are.
A local dealer has Scaena and I may see if he can bring them over… I'm waiting to hear what the Soulsonic dealer can do as well…
The only Audio Consulting of Switzerland dealer is in Nashville and Perfect8 is manufacturer direct and they will offer in home demo if you pay for the system in advance…
Thats where I stand all. Once I get my speaker selection settled then I can try some other DACS that have been offered to me for evaluation. Sorry for the huge side track, but its fun!!!! |
Josh - it's all worth a try as the opportunity offers itself.
Who knows. Maybe it affects things. If I get the opportunity, I'll let you know. I think my wife has a wool rug in a bedroom. |
Any opinions on Rockna digital gear? DAC and music server? |
Josh - a short list is not easy. Tech changes so quickly it's hard to make a list of what to try.
Wisnon is obviously pretty happy with the performance of the Lampizator Golden Gate (although I think he has a Lampy 7). CTSooner and I are very happy with our ODSE DAC's. Many have reported good things about the newest version of the Bricasti M1 and the newest software upgrade of the PS Audio DAC. And Esoteric, MSB, DCS and such are always pumping out newer versions of their Uber dacs. The Chord DAVE is intriguing and the Rockna DAC I was recently made aware of looks pretty interesting as well. The Rowland Aeris was a sensational DAC when I had it also.
If there is one thing my trek has taught me is that if it interests you, you need to hear it for yourself in your system. It's the only way to really know. Not just hear it at a show or in a store, but in your system in your room. Dealers these days are typically happy to lend a piece of kit to you for a few days if you are sincere. Sometimes a deposit or payment in full with refund may be needed. It's worth it every time!
As a bias, if you are looking for PCM only to get the best damn red book you can, it will be touh to beat my little ODSE. |
Vicks7- the DSD-S was excellent and easily a contender. The only dac I heard that I might have gone with over the ODSE if I had not already owned the ODSE. And Alex is a great guy.
I'll bet the DSD-M is even better!
I'll provide a speaker update shortly. It's a long process.... |
Yes. I got my Regen last week.
No, I haven't tried it yet.
Been crazy at work and have been practically obsessing about picking out my speaker.
I've had a crazy amount of speakers going through the room and seam to be narrowing it down nicely. My issue is that the pair I really really emotionally bond with are crazy expensive and the pair I'm comparing them with (which are exceptional but I can't quite seam to connect with as much) are way less expensive.
I still need to give the Vandy 7's another listen and have a few others I'm looking at. But the Marten Tenors grab my heart and my soul every time I put them back in the system.
Once I get that all settled I'll try the Regen and report. I also need to get that Bricasti M1 in to try. And I'd like to see if I can get John to bring over that Romulus Sig CD/DAC to try as well. |
Hi George. Thanks , that was great. I am actually considering the new msb V series. Looks very intriguing. I'm working an audition hopefully later this summer. I'll report when I can. |
Hi all,
Merrill just dropped off the most current Bricasti M1 DAC and I was just offered a demo of the Lampy Lite 7 (not sure how that compares to the regular 7 or the Golden Gate). I'm heading out of town for a few days so the review on the M1 will have to wait until I'm back.
So here's where I stand with speakers…
Boenicke are out. The W8se+ are wonderful but don't give me the low end dynamics and impact that are a must.
Hansen Prince E are wonderful speakers and I highly recommend them. They are an absolutely transparent window to the upstream gear. But i found them a tad clean compared to some other speakers I am trying. The low end is wonderful and layered and the highs are extended. The mids are on the lean side and depend on the gear to guide them. I would imagine they would mesh perfectly with a high powered tube amp…. not for me though.
My Muzik's are out simply because their rear port is wreaking havoc with my room. This along with 1 other speaker proved that my room, for whatever reason, really requires a bottom or front ported speaker (or sealed enclosure). So they are up for sale.
The MM3's I reviewed already and are up for sale. In a bigger room they are absolutely freakin sensational! Just not in my smallish 15x18.5 foot room.
Currently comparing the Lawrence Double Bass and the Marten Coltrane Tenor.
the Double Bass - I have measured every speaker I tried and they all have had pretty typical curves… A bit of sickout in the 40-65 range and then a tad at 90. several peaks and valleys up until about 16K Hz and then rolled off… The Double Bass is flat in my room. Like impressively flat starting at 24Hz and going to and past 22kHz… They are the most tonally correct speaker i have heard. They reproduce the recording with accuracy, proper tone, pitch, leading and trailing edges and dynamics. What they lack, to me, is emotion. I have been trying desperately to get involved and engaged (I have a killer deal offered to me and I really really want to like these speakers!!!). But every time I listen I find myself analyzing the speakers and rarely really listening… I think, again, that a high powered tube amp would better suite this speakers style.
Now to my current favorite, the Marten Coltrane Tenor…
The Tenor grabs my heart and won't let go. From the moment the first song is played to the time I tear myself away from my system several hours later. What it does it does just right for me. it is not the most accurate speaker I have heard, nor the most detailed. It softens trailing edges and although never ever boomy, it has a suckout in my room that I am having a hard time correcting (which is fascinating that the Double Bass would not but this does). They are unquestionably a touch colored. A veil over the deeper voice requires a subtle 0.5 to 1.5Hz of gain in between 6 and 12Hz. But with that ever so subtle correction the speakers vanish, and transport (Star Trek style) the performers into my room, and fill the room with engaging, engulfing music. What I find is that the system almost lulls me to sleep with soothing soft music and excites and energizes me when the passage is powerful. I was told that the Double Bass is a better, more accurate, more detailed speaker with finesse and refinement (at less then 1/2 the price). What I hear is that there is a complexity, layering and inner energy that the Tenors have that the Double Bass just doesn't…
Unfortunately, the Tenors are super expensive and my demo pair need to be returned in a week. Until I sell everything else I have up for sale I can't even think about buying a speaker that costly.
Because of my restriction regarding no rear port my selection is a tad limited. I don't like the sound of Raidho or Magico speakers and I have auditioned many other front and bottom ported speakers what have I not heard or listed…
Here's what I have come up with that is bottom or rear ported, sealed and does not require bi-amping. And is small and will fit into my room:
Perfect8 - the Point
AlkemiaVero
Sousonic - Holograph LE
Von Schweikert - Unifield 3 mk 2
Vandy - 7
Avalon - Time
Vapor Audio - The Joule
I think the Schweikert is probably very good but I know it won't give me the low end slam and dynamics that the Tenors did.
I have arranged an audition of the Holograph and the AlkemiaVero (both sort of eclectic European speakers) but they won't be ready for 3-4 months.
I have to find time to meet with John and hear the Vandy 7's again. But I was admittedly not blown away last time…
I loved the Perfect8 The Point's at the show in Newport, but they are crazy expensive and I can't get them into my room for an audition until after I pay for them in full (refundable if I decide I don't want them(
Vapor Audio - The Joule intrigues me. It's cheap compared to most of the other speakers on this list. But getting to hear them is nigh impossible other then flying to Missouri for an audition. I may drive about 2 hours to someone who has a pair the model below the pair I'm considering. But I really like hearing what I am going to buy in my room….
That leaves Avalon which are bottom ported and might just be my cup of tea. I am going to drive down to Maryland or Delaware and give them a good listen to see if they are worth considering….
Please chime in with opinions and thoughts in all directions.
thanks!!! |
Actually guys, about 95% of my listening is digital. Very little is vinyl. I love it and it's special to me, but Its just not as convenient as my computer and my Iphone. Sorry to disappoint.
I looked at Trenner. Their reference speaker requires 4 monoblocks or two stereo amps to drive. I can't imaging buying another two 911mk3's! Oy! |
Thanks for the list Wisnon. I have the Boenicke W8SE+ in my house right now. They are excellent, but not in the same league as the more expensive speakers I am looking at. I want something truly full range.
The Rethm, Albedo, Klanwork and Heil are all good speakers, but not truly full range and not in the same class as the other speakers I am looking at. They are good no doubt. But don't provide the complexity, nuance, detail, refinement, dynamics and scale I am after. The Kaiser are truly full range, but require tons of space off the front wall because of the multiple ports and drivers on the back of the speaker. And I find the Kaiser overly bright at times.
The Micro One is also great. But even with more low end its not in the same class. It will be a giant killer at $8k though. And Jonathan Tinn is a truly good guy and makes amazing product!
I have only heard 2 or 3 speakers at any price that compare with the Marten Coltrane Tenors. And only the $105k Kharma Midi Exquisite S has the petite footprint that the Tenors do. |
Agear - What is the Golden Gate's best input? Does it use the CMOS chip for USB?
I think many agree that one of the big Lampy drawbacks was its less then stellar usb input performance. Has that been corrected with the GG or is an Empirical Audio OffRamp still needed to get the most out of that inout? |
All Tidal speakers are rear ported and won't integrate well into my room. Same for the larger Boenicke. The upcoming W13 looks great, but it's got a huge rear port. I've tried about a dozen rear port speakers and they just don't work in my room. Boom boom boom. Nodes activated everywhere. I think it has to do with my rooms stiff walls, completely sealed nature and the almost square shape of the room (15x18.5x9) with an almost doubling of the height to length. It just doesn't work with rear ports. Which eliminates a LOT of very fine speakers. Not that they are in any way bad, just not for my room.
And the USB issue was experienced first hand while I had my Big 6 Lampy here. The USB input was just terrible compared to the spdif. And everyone told me to try the off ramp to improve it. But I wasn't going that route. That's why I asked. |
Thanks Guido. Maybe Fraulein Muzik would be most appropriate. Hehe.
Apparently the guys at Vapor are preferential to the Antipodes and ran it with the Golden Gate at Axpona along with their monster Perfect Storm speakers. I know Steve from Empirical prefers it as well.
I would be happy to hear a Golden Gate in my room. Should the opportunity arise I will jump on it. But I'm still USB dependent so I'm hoping he's improvised his USB inputs. CMOS would be great. |
Trenner Duke require bi-amping (4 mono blocks). Maybe the Isis but it's hard to find anywhere and I don't think it will give me the dynamics and low frequency extension I'm after.
I love horns and looks at many. My room is just too small for horns..... |
Agear- I don't think Bill meant it like that. I was kidding with him afterwards. We all make mistakes about gear names and tech. I'm not perfect and I appreciate being corrected. Hell, I'm married 20 years- I don't think I've been right in at least 19 years!!! :)
I'm very curious to see if his new generation of dacs can beat the current generation. Let's see..... |
Curious if THIS new generation..... |
Josh - that's an interesting list idea. I don't need the names of the designers but it would be interesting to see if i gravitate towards similar tech dacs (type of chip, ladder, chipless, etc). It might help me narrow my search in the future.
I know the Rowland DAC was software based and I loved it. But the PS Audio is chipless also and I didn't like it so much.... The APL was excellent and I love my ODSE. Anyone know, off the top of their head, which chip the apl and ODSE use? |
Never heard of them. Will look into it. Thanks.
Is there a U.S. Dealer? |
I actually take offense at that post. And I've never said that before.
I have every intention of buying a speaker if I love it. I have been honest and forthright with every dealer and rep I have spoken with and all know their is a solid potential sale but the competition is tough. Most of the speakers I have heard have just not done it for me. I have paid all freight and moving costs to and from which has already cost me thousands.
These speakers range in price from $20k to $100k! The profit potential is massive for practically no effort on the dealers part other then having it avaable and maybe needing to pack it and get it to me. Again, I have paid all freight fees plus I have sent my mover to one store to pick up and return the speaker with them just overseeing.
As of right now my top contender is the $80k Coltrane Tenor. For that kind of money I'm going to make damn sure there's nothing better out there for around the same price or less, or even a tad more.
There is no pud pulling going on. My investment in freight and moving alone during this search is more then most people spend on their actual speakers. And I spent well over $35k to get the MM3 into my house just so I could hear them. How is that possibly pud pulling?!?!? I flew to Canada, Chicago and California to hear every speaker I could. And I may still fly to Missouri to hear the Vapor and now possibly to Colorado to hear the Arcadias. I will buy when a speaker deserves purchase. To be honest, I have asked naybe an hour or two of time at the most from most of the dealers I've been working with. Profit potential
Is in the tens of thousands......
Thanks for your useful post.
Sorry to all, you've never in all these posts Sean me go off. But that was just flat out insulting! |
With the removal of the carpet my room has been transformed. As long as the speaker is not rear ported I am getting amazing sound! And with my incoming Wing diffusers the room should sound even better.
Front and bottom ported speakers work wonderfully and provide deep, tight, multilayered base with no nodal activation or boom. I haven't tried a sealed speaker, but I can't imagine it wouldn't be even easier to place and sound great. |
Lol. Yes. I want to be that guy. But with a good stereo, a more comfortable chair, a margarita in my hand and a beautiful women on my lap.
Go Joisey!
;) |
Agear - I gave up on my meds a long time ago. Alas, they only work until noon and then wore off completely leaving me in a rebound state far worse then what I started off with.....
I now swallow a Synergistic Research HFT twice a week. I find it helps my kidneys and liver to resonate properly while listening to classical and jazz. The newer HFT 2.0 X series, I find, if taken between 4:37 and 4:39AM on the second Tuesday of the month can truly tune my spine to properly reproduce Austrian Polka in a way I have never heard before. The habit is getting expensive and re-collection of the transducers is not at all pleasant, but there is no limit to the lengths that a true audiophile should be willing to go!!!
Grins!!!
-Matt |
Coincidentally, I found a dealer in north eastern Connecticut who sells both T&F and BMC. I will call tomorrow and set up a demo. The dealer has the Ra I believe, but the distributor felt that Isis was a better option for my room.
I'll keep you updated. Unfortunately, the dealer is almost 3 hours away. I also plan to go hear the Avalon speakers (Time and Isis) and that dealer is in the exact opposite direction, South 2.5 hours. Sigh. |
Thanks JH. That's a very useful list to have.
With my return from vacation I am packing up all of my currently loaned speakers and resting them for return to their generous lenders. I am also packing up my Der Muziks and hoping for a buyer.
I have not yet he time to plan auditions but I will keep you posted. I will say that the Coltrane Tenor is still my front runner. But I have some very good speakers to still hear. |
Anyone heard the Salk Soundstage 10 or the Vapor Audio Joule?? |
I had a lengthy conversation with one of the U.S. Dealers of the Kithara. He told me that the low frequency extension is disappointing at best and there are many higher end speakers that outperform the Kithara in every way. He also said that the speaker is getting more expensive to import and hard to sell at higher then it's $6k retail price. The search continues.... |
Agear - yes I did. I drove the 1.2miles from my house to Brett's and listened to the Behold and to the Ascendo. The Behold was not for me. Very accurate and hiFi sounding to my ears. And it requires a whole Behold system. The Ascendo was actually very good. It didn't have the low end punch I am looking for though. I'm not sure if their higher end speakers would offer that. But he didn't have any others in display.
I definitely am drawn to a truly full range speaker with deep extension, accurate reproduction leaning towards the forceful side; with a sense of impact and scale that some speakers sacrifice to reproduce the lower frequencies with more accuracy and a sense of finesse. I almost see it as live vs studio... Live is scale, impact and dynamic while the studio recording is more accurate with finesse and the gentle skilled hand of a studio engineer to properly reproduce every nuance.
I also definitely like my speakers with a sense of midrange texture that some may consider colored. Not overly warm or truly colored, but the harmonics that the low midrange creates that are emotion and soul. The speakers that reproduce the source with accuracy and finesse are, to me, frequently lacking texture, complexity and that sense of engaging emotional involvement that is the reason I love this hobby.
Don't get me wrong. I expect my SYSTEM to be accurate and offer finesse and subtly in its reproduction, but I expect to accentuate those characteristics with my DAC/electronics and cables.
To me, thus far in my system, the Coltane Tenor has come the closest to doing that perfectly. |
Hi all. First off, I have the Bricasti M1 in the house and have been listening for a few days. I am holding opinions for a bit so I can provide a solid report.
I want to thank all for getting into my speaker search. I'm sorry I sidetracked the thread but its been a fun sidetrack and you guys have given me great suggestions! I promise this thread will end up back on the DAC track when the speaker decision has been finalized.
Here is a list of my current possibilities, almost all of which I have not heard. Obviously the Marten Coltrane Tenor is currently my front runner. But since it is a whopping $80K retail I am hoping to find a slightly (or significantly) less expensive option to consider; although if the Tenor ends up being the one that just does it for me then the Tenor it will be. I will not list the speakers I have already removed from my list…
Marten Coltrane Tenor (or even the Coltrane 3 if the opportunity arises)
Avalon Time or Isis
Joseph Audio Pearl 3 (I just put this on the list at your suggestion but I need to confirm it is not rear ported)
Perfect8 - The Point (I know I love these but they are a super whopping $100K)
Soulsonic - Holograph (Intriguing but very eclectic and VERY expensive)
Alkemia Vero - Italian omnidirectional (also intriguing but very expensive and eclectic)
Vandy 7 - Admittedly has not done it for me when I have heard them before. But at your insistence I am giving them their full chance to catch my heart.
Avantgarde - Duo Grosso (I know, a horn in a small room. But I have spoken to many people who think they would fit perfectly in my room and I have always enjoyed the way they sound; albeit a bit romantic. I'm also not in love with the fact that they are powered subs and that I would probably benefit from a tubed amp instead of my uber solid state amp that I love so much). But its on the list
Trenner & Friedl - Isis (A solid choice but hard to find. I'm doing my best to get my ears on a pair)
BMC - Arcadia (Also a solid choice but not easy to get my ears on a pair. I'm trying though)
Nola - Baby Grand Reference Gold (I need to confirm, but i recently realized that these are not rear ported and are certainly worth consideration if they work for my room)
Ascendo - Heard them recently and they are very good. low on my list but thinking about them….
Salk - Soundscape 10 (a solidly designed speaker for a reasonable price. I need to hear them to see how good they are. I am having a hard time believing that the Salk or the Vapor Joule would really compete with some of the much more expensive speakers I am considering)
Vapor Audio - Joule black or white (I'm thinking white) - A few threads really threw a monkey wrench into their public opinion but I'm not sure what to believe. They use similar drivers and design to the Salk and my same concern exists. I'm trying to hear a pair.
YG - I have heard them several times and although they have many strengths, I don't think they are for me.
I think thats it right now, although I may have forgotten one. I know Wisnon keeps suggesting the Heil speaker and I will try to hear a pair. But I don't think it will compare with some of the better speakers I am considering, especially in the low frequency extension which is really important to me. |
Hi Mike.
I'm sort of honored you are posting. I feel like we've hit the big time if we caught your attention with this thread. Lol. I have to admit I have been following your build since you had the Kharmas in your room, years ago. You are the reason I needed to hear the MM3's and that I was willing to actually buy a pair just to hear them since there was no other realistic way to hear them.
That said, I was not disappointed with their performance and they do everything I wanted. But the size of the speakers and my room size limited my ability to place them properly to get the most out of them. Jon Tinn was amazingly helpful and a true gentlemen; he really helped me and went the extra mile to guide me in placing the speakers properly. In the end, my room ended up requiring their placement in a nearfield setup that sounded absolutely stunning. But I felt like they were headphones considering their size and my proximity to these huge towers.
If I had been able to pull them further off the front wall I would have had way more flexibility in their placement.
So if someone wants a stupid deal on a pair of MM3's let me know. |
I heard the granite speaker twice in two different rooms. Didn't do it for me.
I spoke with the T&F dealer. He insists the Isis are too big for my room and the Ra would do me just fine. He says they go down to 25hz without an issue but the web site says 40hz. He seams to think the Ra are the greatest things since sliced bread. I need to look into the Ra more to see how low they go.....
I'm going to try to hear the Nola Metro Grand Reference (which is rear ported unless I look at the only sealed enclosure model which is, I think, too big for my room and almost $75k). But worth listening.
I'm also going to take a ride to Philly to hear the Joseph Pearl 3.
I have heard the Aerial 20 and I thought it was a tad bright. They are coming out with a new 12 or 13T (don't remember which # is it) and it may be bottom ported and it will use a soft some tweeter. About 9-12 months out. I own a pair of 10T's and I love them. They live in my Family Room and I will never given them up.
I just need to decide if a 2.5 hour drive is worth it to get my ears on the Ra and BMC speakers..... |
Lumenwhite are rear ported, unfortunately.
I will try to get to the Ra as soon as possible. He is not available until early September. I will hear the Avalon and Joseph Pearl 3 by then....
Also trying to hear a Salk SS8 or 10 as soon as I can. |
Agear - for your information i don't have an El Camino. I have a Camaro! Lol.
Actually, I have a Porsche and a Jeep.
But I will admit I had a Mustang GT in high school with four 10" subwoofers. Oh yeah baby! I worked in a car stereo store back them and did a killer install. It's always been in my blood. |
Ktema has 2 large rear firing woofers and 2 rear firing ports.
Not for my room.... Although I'm sure they are great. |
Agear - 15'x18.5'x9'
The MM3 did not, in fact, overload the room at all. They are sealed, powered woofers. The restriction was placement only. When I dialed them in they were stunning. I just didn't like the 6'x6'x6' triangle that worked best with my short room. The 15' width is not the issue, it's the 18.5' length.
I need to find time to get to the Ra to get a feel. I am trying to get my ears on the Joseph Pearl 3 and the Avalons as well. I found the speakers, I just need the time to get to them to hear them.
Wisnon - thanks for the list of eclectics. I research and look into every one of them. |
Thanks Erik. I heard JBL's at Newport. Interesting. I'll look for a local dealer. |
TBG - what other speakers were on your short list before jumping on the BMC wagon? |
Tidal are all rear ported. So they are out.
Vapor Perfect storm is too big, they are huge. Derecho is a lower model. The Joule would be the one that fits my room.
Salk SS10 is in the same genre as the Vapor Joule although I don't honestly think that either the Joule or the SS10 is in the same class as the others I'm looking at.
The MM3 is their reference level speaker. Although I loved it, I liked the sound of the Marten Coltrane Tenor more. And I am trying to find a speaker without a powered woofer.
Although I love sound of the Avantgarde, it really is designed to sound best with a very good low power SET amp (or low powered solid state like the First Watt) and it has a powered woofer. With a low power SET, the powered woofer makes sense. With my powerful Burmesters that have world class low frequency performance using a powered woofer makes no sense. |
JWM - I had a pair of Boenicke W8SE+ in my room for several weeks and I enjoyed them. But they didn't give me the scale and dynamics I am after. And the W20 is rear ported, actually rear horned. So it won't work for me. |
22.5' is not a bit bigger then 18.5'. It's only 4' but it makes a big difference. My length is my issue. I made a mistake not going 23' long. I find I can't get the speakers far enough off the front wall to allow the ports to breath and stay far enough away from the speakers to make them sound good. I'm sure it's my overall dimensions and my construction, but thus far anything new that I have tried that is rear ported sets off the nodes in the room something fierce and is overwhelmingly boomy; no matter where I place them. Bottom or front ported is fine, as is sealed.
There are plenty of great options that are bottom or front ported, or sealed. So I'm good to go. I just need to pick my favorite. The Coltane Tenor is stunning! But mucho bucks! I'm just trying to find a less expensive option that gets me to the same place that the Tenor does. We shall see. |
Paul - also, thanks for the suggestion. I have the soffit stuffed full of insulation. With down or front porting, I have no base issues. Clean, tight, extended base down to about 23hz. Measured. I do have some more diffusion coming next week to manage my side wall reflections a bit better. But with the right speaker, my room sings now.
In fact, although they were not my favorite speaker I did measure an absolutely flat curve from 23hz to 21khz with the Lawrence Audio Double Bass in the room. Also proved to me that perfectly flat doesn't mean musical and engaging. Although one of my friends thought they were the cats Meow..... |
Hi Josh.
75% digital , 25% analog
My ODSE is still my reference. I also have a Bricasti M1 in house. I have not had time yet to compare the 2 although they are clearly very different. |
Paul79 - I never said they were bright. In fact they were not. But I found at times they shouted at me. And the low frequency just didn't get to where I wanted. The room wasn't ideal but it wasn't poorly setup. I feel I got a good sense of what they were capable of.
Wisnon. Going Goldman is a huge right angle turn from my current direction. I'm not sure I can emotionally handle that drastic a change. I know and like Bob so I'll call him to chat.
I re-heard the Vandy 7/2 today. I don't have time now to report and I need to gather my thoughts and opinions. I'm running into the operating room. I'll post later. |
Both CAD and TotalDac are on my list of 'really want to hear'. There is a rumor that CAD will be relocating from England to Washington state. Cool.
Also want to hear the Berkely reference (although it's still pointless because it doesn't have a usb input) and the Aesthetix Romulus Sig. Plus the new MSB V.
Just need to narrow down speaker choice. |
Hi CT, sadly no. He's still burning it in. He used the AR as a transport and a Berkeley Alpha DAC, plus he adjusted the speakers. Richfield, thank you for making me aware that those are the mark 1 I heard.
With the change in setup and adding in the Berkely DAC the speakers improved dramatically. This time I was engaged. I spent the 2+ hours listening to music and not the speakers. This audition pushed them up to the top 3 in my search. I think I still liked the Coltrane Tenors more, but it was very close. Unfortunately there is no conceivable way to A/B them. The Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate are also in the top 3 but I need to hear them with proper powered amplification before I can make a call on them.
I found the Vandy 7 a tad veiled on the upper registers. It was subtle and didn't really effect my overall impression. They just didn't extend with the accuracy and finesse that the Coltrane Tenor did. Interestingly, it was the same on the low end. The Tenors maintained a better sense of control, impact, extension and finesse in the lower registers than the Vandy. I think the forward firing long excursion twin 8's with down firing port helped to keep the room further from the equation then the down firing, side vented Vandy's. I felt the rumble and heard all the notes, they were right and proper and had both accurate rise and decay but I didn't get that punch in the chest when expected like I did with the Tenors. I also felt that on rare occasions the base became disconnected from the rest of the music, like I could hear that it was being amplified by a different amplifier; the tone subtly shifted and it became identifiable that there was a subwoofer and monitor, and not just a speaker. Other then that, they did everything right.
I can say without hesitation that John knows how to set up a room and he is a great guy who really loves this stuff, and loves music!
After my recent audition I could easily say that I could live forever with either the Tenor or the Vandy 7/2 (I can only assume the Vandy 7/2 would correct at least some of my issues). Which is great because it gives me choices and flexibility to negotiate and see where the better deal lies.
I will be going back to hear the Dynaudio CU next Friday with solid state. And I need to hear the Avalon Isis as well, but the store can't get me in until early September (sigh).
Then there's the T&F Isis, the BMC Arcadia, The Goldmund Wisnon wants me to hear and a few others. Without jumping on a plane, hearing any of those (other then the Goldmund) just won't happen. And if I find several I love without needing to fly somewhere then I'm not going to spend the time and money to fly. Of course, if I hear something in the future that i like more I can always flip and upgrade. But with the performance I hear out of the Tenor, Vandy 7 and potentially Dynaudio CU and Avalon Isis I can't imagine I would get any better elsewhere.
I'm going to call the T&F distributor and speak with him. I'm not driving 3.5 hours to hear the RA when I'm positive it won't give me the base extension I'm after (I emailed and spoke with Mr. Friedl and he agreed that the Isis would probably suit my needs better although the RA would sound great without that bottomless extension). And there is no place to hear the BMC Arcadia without flying to hear it (which is a shame because I negotiated a killer deal for a pair if I wanted them).
And I'm also processing Wisnon's relentless suggestions as they come in. Lol. Man that guy knows about a lot of gear!!!! |
