Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Al, looking forward. Yes it was a great talk. Too bad the club can’t come to Johnny’s. That would have been great. We will need to set something like that up. Would be fun. I’d like more info on the club too.  Pete. 

That would be me Al, lol.  I've never been to any clubs or even a show in my life, lol.  Now I'm asking for club info and will be going to Cam Jam in NYC in Feb if the MS let's me, lol.....  What has life turned into?  

Al, can't wait to get the server in and have you over.  A dealer friend of mine in Houston, Timbr Audio, just taped a world class pianist in his store (they have a special room for this) and is sending me the whole session on a thumb drive.  I am hoping that becomes a bit of a reference for me, lol.  He's worked with Chesky and others in the past, so I'm sure it's recorded as good as it can be.  Yes, Matt, you will get a copy as will Richfield, lol..

How many of you use piano to when critically listening?  I know that's one instrument I was told to use back in teh early 70's.  It's a big reason I don't like so many speakers as that and cymbals can be brutal to properly reproduce IMHO.  

and Vandersteen may be coming out soon with a SS amp.  Lot's of great new gear coming soon.  BTW, I may be selling my Ayre QX5/20 DAC (all inputs and fully updated as I may be moving up a bit.  I should know soonish, but will PM with folks who have interest. Thanks

The MP seems to be the one to beat right now.  I'm having Sam come over with the one wiht the built in DAC to compare it to my Mac mini that Steve built and used as his show back up along with my Ayre QX5 DAC that replaced Steve's OSDE/SE.  If ti beats it, I"m all in. I have a feeling, based on Matt and another close friend, that it will beat it with no problem.  

The MP seems to be the one to beat right now.  I'm having Sam come over with the one wiht the built in DAC to compare it to my Mac mini that Steve built and used as his show back up along with my Ayre QX5 DAC that replaced Steve's OSDE/SE.  If ti beats it, I"m all in. I have a feeling, based on Matt and another close friend, that it will beat it with no problem.  

Matt, the other thing that folks never seem to talk about (other than HRS) that I know of, is what type of case are you trying to use the device with. Are the cases solid or are they 'sheets of metal'?  There are differences if I recall correctly.  

I got my Synchro Mesh sent out to me within a day or two.  I also really liked it, but need to sell it as I am no longer in need with my system changes.  I guess sometimes things happen.  Sorry Ozzy.  

I got my Synchro Mesh sent out to me within a day or two.  I also really liked it, but need to sell it as I am no longer in need with my system changes.  I guess sometimes things happen.  Sorry Ozzy.  

George, why in the world would you make such a statement?  There are many DAC's of all designs that sound outstanding.  I've owned both types and like them.  There are plenty of great designs right now from many manufacturer's.  

Wow, thanks so much Steve.  That's some awesome stuff.  Not sure why some are so adamant to keep on trying to say R2R is always better etc...  

Guys, there are some great R2R DAC's.  MSB as has been mentioned as well as what may or may not be the best DAC in teh world, the Trinity DAC are R2R types.  Total DAC too if I recall correctly.  

I was at Audio Doctor's and heard the Aqua Formula I believe it was with the Paradigm 9H's and didn't like what I heard.  I know that speaker and it's just not my cup of tea, but it really was the worst I've ever heard them. Dave said it was the Aqua that wasn't burned in properly.  That may have been the case, but the highs were a total wreck and I don't think burn in was the problem, but I may be wrong.  

I got this off the DaVinci site on the Mk2 that Richfield Hunter and Matt both own and LOVE.  

Now we’ve decided to push the boundaries once again with Da Vinci MKII’s 32/768 kHz PCM resistor ladder DAC engine. And history will repeat itself.

Da Vinci MKII’s second decoding engine is a pure Delta-Sigma DAC capable of decoding DSD signals up to DSD256.

What does this mean?  They use both?  Either way you can find great DAC's using a lot of different tech and most can sound very very good.  Some not so much, lol. 

I bow down to all of you techies.  This thread takes so many new directions and all are amazing and informative to say the least.  I understand some of what you guys say, but I fully understand what my ears hear.  Thanks to all of you for this back and forth.  Best thread on any site pertaining to audio that I've ever read/been part of.  

Steve, great plots on the cables.  Thanks so much.  I was out of pocket a lot for the last few months of the year and missed your posts on the upgrade to SM.  I haven't been using mine as I have the Ayre QX5 and just connect everything direct. 

I'm getting The Memory Player with built in DAC and was wondering if I should use the SM to connect the TV to the internal DAC via BNC?  If so, I'd want the upgrade. I didn't realize that you had one.  I can call you later if it's better to take it off the board.  Just let me know. thanks. Pete

Matt, thanks for keeping the socks on.  Will it be a different color for each video?  PLEASE don't take them off!!!!  Thanks for taking the advice to heart.

Matt, I used to love those speakers lol. Too funny. That Brinkmann is a great Dac. I’ve heard it a few times. It really shined last year in the Vandersteen room at one of the shows. My Ayre QX 5 has a hair more detail, but it won’t touch the musicality or size of sound stage that the Brinkmann has. It’s also twice the price but this is about best. 

Great video's guys.  To see them and knowing you from the thread as well as our friendship, really brings it all home for me.  Thanks for making them.

I think this is still top DAC.  The Schitt isn't in this convo.  Guys, I would counter that many of us have listened to it vs a few other similarly priced DAC's and we liked the Ayre Codex better.  It also costs less at 1800.  This is a very competitive price range and yes, the Schitt is very good, but so are many others.  

The same thing holds true at the top end of things.  Matt has a system that is different than any of us.  There are many great DAC's that folks need to audition.  We all have different ears, tastes etc... so there is no absolute.  Heck, I had Steve's OSDE/SE adn LOVED it. I still think it is one of the top DAC's I've listened to and I've heard many of the upper crust DAC's.  I even got to hear the Trinity DAC some years ago (was the best by far that I've heard, but it's been too long to really say what it sounds like now vs the others).

I'm sure the Schitt guys will jump all over me, but it's like taking about any 5k speaker and saying it's a great buy in a thread talking about Vandersteen System 9 (yes, my favorite so far), Tidal's, Wilsons, Magico, B&W and any other speaker that's in the 80k plus range.  They can't compete regardless of your ears, room or system.  JMHO and those of a few others on this thread.  

We've always had some twists and turns and we will get back to gear very soon.  

Of course the name was chosen for a reason.  They love it when they get their free pub on boards as they don't have to have high overhead and can make affordable products that work nicely within their price range.  It's a great concept and they make many happy.  

There is no be all end all in audio for obvious reasons that have been talked about in nearly every thread on every forum all over the net.  Maybe even the dark net, but I don't play there so I don't know for sure, lol.  ((😆 that's my way of saying joke).

I've gotten to know Matt, Richfield, Steve and so many of you because of this thread.  Nothing else, just this thread.  I've gotten to network with Matt specifically and met others here who post.  Many of you are dealers or manufacturers.  ALL of you are great guys who share the same passion that I do.  Gentlemen all of you (no grammar police as I purposely wrote it that way ;)).  

Matt and others have kept this thread going and kept it civil, when most so many of these bumps would have blown up other threads.  Teh same will happen here, because 99% of us what it that way.  Most of us open up AG daily and look to see who's posted what and what gear are we talking about today.  For many of us, we can't afford the TOTL stuff, but it's fun to dream and it's fun to learn.  I also want to know what the 'best' gear is on the top end and it allows me to learn more about what is in my own wheel house.  I'm sure most of you are do the same. I know that so many who read this thread and don't post feel that way.  

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention something about Matt.  He's become a very good friend (same with Richfield and Sam isn't far behind).  We don't see eye to eye on much of audio, but we are very very close most of the time.  At first I thought that I disagreed with him more than I agreed, but over the years now, I've come to realize that we do like most of the same gear as we both need tonality first.  It's fun as we bounce so much off of each other daily.  As you can tell, it's his passion.  He's a great friend and he's honest.  What he has, that many on the net lack is class.  I've never seen anyone on the internet (I'm much more heavily involved in Oklahoma Univ athletics than audio and I spend hours and hours daily listening to music and networking in that area) react to some of the stuff he does with such class.  Many of us have no filters (thanks MS!) and can be contentious.  We are brutally honest and just post thoughts and don't always think (again, screw you MS).  Matt does the opposite. He will take valuable time to retort to a post that may rub him the wrong way or if he knows something  isn't fact etc...

He's one of many I've seen on this thread who won't put something else down even if he didn't like it at all.  Sorry Matt, but it's very true as no one likes everything (why both Wilson and Vandersteen can be profitable for so long as they are so opposite of each other).

I'm in touch with at least 6 of the folks who read or post on this thread on a consistent basis as I've said and everyone I spoke with about this issue felt that Matt was pretty funny and not putting down the product.  For those who have taken the time to read this whole thread, you'd have known that Matt has and would never put down a product.  He'll be honest if he didn't love something, but no way does he put down a product.  Especially a decent one that a couple of you enjoy.  

This situation, like a couple of others before it will play itself out. On Wed, I'm heading to Matt's house for the first time to audition The Memory Player and built in (or possibly external) DAC and I can't wait.  First time I get to see and hear your room and I can't wait to hear this piece of equipment that I've heard SOOOO much about over the last couple of months.  Very exciting and what this thread is truly about adn why it will always stand the test of time.  I"m blessed to be getting a ride over to Matt's as I wouldn't be able to physically drive right now.  I wonder what music we will get to audition.  Sorry to break away from the previous schitt, but it really is all about the music as well as the gear isn't it?  (if you made it this far, thanks). 

Great observations Matt.  Thanks for doing that.  I hope that we can also get the HRS footers to see if the extra price also means better sound.  Sometimes, as well know, it actually does, but not always.  What often looks like the same materials or the same implementation isn't.  

As we have said, the Stillpoints and HRS hard footers are usually better than the others out there to many folks who have actually done head to head comps.  All too often we read posters or dealers telling us that they have a giant killer etc.. and they really may not since they only know what they sell and they use the words the company wants them to use.  

That's teh cool thing about what you are doing.  You really don't have a dog in the fight unless it's something you have already owned.  You may want to like your's better, but I also know that you are one of the few who can separate ownership and thinking your's is better.  Wiht footers or platforms, you also have to take into consideration the stands you use them on etc...  As you have already posted, there is no be all end all here and folks need to get these devices in their own systems to see which they like best.

Video's only on Brittany right?

Matt, you're on deck buddy!  Also let me know how that works out with the power devices. AS you know I'm having a new circuit and sub box with it's own ground installed in two weeks I think. 

I haven't even shared this with Matt yet, but I was given a few sets of the feet that BEL ( Brown Labs) used back in the day.  Just inexpensive and simple hard rubber feet.  I installed them under my Ayre integrated as well as the Ayre QX5/20 and my Steven Nugent built Mac mini with Paul Hynes LPS.  

Each piece sounded a bit better.  Cleaner, tighter bass and a spec more stable soundstage.  Not huge differences, but positive ones.  These are a dirt cheap option for folks who have folded cases and don't have much money to play with.  I think that Timbre Audio in Houston, TX sells them.  

Get in touch with Joe Heusi or his son Michael  if you want to get a set.  They are really cool guys with a brand new, built from scratch show room.  (713) 523-0494. 

They have the Linn gear too. Matt, have you had the LINN in? I just realized that they have been left out and I know they do great digital. I have their lifestyle Kiko unit in the bedroom.  It's decent for what it is, but their big gear is really good stuff.  

Matt, I can possibly get you the Linn set up.  I've head the ref Meridian a bunch and it's not my cup of tea at all.  

I agree on placement of footers. I was told to try and place at least one under the transformer if the can work.  Made sense to me, but in most cases we just place them next to the feet on the cabinet.  Also, I recommend only using three unless you can adjust the height.  That's the only way to make sure you get a solid connection between the foot and the rack/platform typically.  

You can go crazy on cords, cable, feet and cable elevators etc...., but be careful how much you spend and make sure that it's worth it.  All too often we start to spend an extra 500 on feet, plus 700 on a powe cord and for that 1200 alone, you may have been able to get much better sound, just purchasing a better component.  

In Matt's case and others on this board, you guys are already maxing out a lot of your budget on the components and want to spend this extra to get the last bit of goodness.  That said, for many, you can just spend an extra few thousand on your source and get even better sound with the ability to later on do the accessory upgrades.  That's still where I"m kind of at.  

I have only one specialty cord that will go on my The Memory Player and then I'll have to see if I keep the Ayre AX5/20 or upgrade (if it is one and I'm told it's a no brainer) to the new VAndesteen mono blocks (to be released in a few months). Silly for me to start getting new cables before I know which components I'm going to be using.

So many of you are here to figure out which DAC to get etc... Not all of use can afford or want to afford the DaVinci that Matt went with.  Honestly, I would't purchase anything new from them for all the reasons and problems mentioned in this thread as well as others.  Plenty of great options for most budgets have been discussed here from Empirical Audio to Ayre to Brinkman to Lampizator to the lower priced gear too.  It's funny, but I'd also love to hear The Memory Player mini as a server with their own stand alone DAC as I be it's a killer for the money.  Heck the mini server maxes out at 3500 or so I think and they may even be willing to move a bit on that (I have no clue, but it never hurts to ask for help).  That has all their software goodies and even their defragmenting hard drive which is amazing for the price.  That's the Aurender X100 territory as well as some of the new ones coming in.  

great write up.  I found the discussion about the digital volume control interesting.  I love my ODSE/SE and miss it every now and then, but I do love my Ayre QX5/20.  Just different sounds.

I tend to agree.  Many give me a hard time when I say I like it better than anything under 20k so far, but I honestly do. I haven't heard the TotalDac though.  I like it better than Brinkmann, but the Brinkman is a bit more 'musical', but not nearly as detailed.  I'll take it over the Berkley Ref mk 2 also.  

It's still being build.  Looking forward to getting it, but in no rush.  It's going to be loaded with everything they have to offer.  It will be very interesting to hear the differences between the DAC's considering ones built in and then there is the Ayre, which to my ears is just an outstanding unit.  I was lucky to get to speak with Charlie before he passed about his design and where they put the money when coming up with the idea.  Most of the engineering is past my level, but he was able to explain things to me that I could understand.  Sam does the same thing when I have questions and he asks Mark.  I need a translator at times.  Even when Matt and I go back and forth, I need a translator, lol...:). j/k....well, sort of.  

I'll get it and set it up and let it burn in.  Then I can share my thoughts in a system that isn't at Matt's price level.  I have always been about getting the best quietly signal for your system as even good speakers can then sound great.  I'm also a big believer in amplification.  I"m not like most who say get the most expensive speakers you can afford adn then skimp on the other stuff if needed.  There are some great values in all products categories, but not all fit together.  

I'm going on a limb with MP64 Transport as I've never heard it, but I know Matt and Richfield's ears pretty good and I've met both a few times etc.... so I have a strong idea how it should sound, but in my system, I'm still a bit scared, lol....  I'm not selling the Ayre until the MP is burned in and I've been able to listen to it a bit.  That's why I will make my impressions and share.  I have some more major surgery on the 8th of March, so I will have some time to audition eventually, lol. :)...This will be my 3rd in the last 2 years.  Thanks MS, lol.

PS, stay healthy all! ;)

Winson, thanks very much.  Greatly appreciated.  Glad that you have such high praise for the software.  It sure seems special.  I have a couple of friends who are looking at the Memory Player Mini to get the suite with a well built player that can be upgraded over time at an affordable price.  

Matt keeps on truckin'

I have heard teh Atlantic, but not in the same room and system as mine. I personally like the micro and macro detail the the Ayre just nails.  I read that review of Steve's incredible ODSX and Plaskin calls his QX5 a bit forward.  I don't get that in my system at all and I have an Ayre AX5/20 running it.  If a recording is mastered forward, then it will give me that. If it's not, then it won't present that like many others will.  When I make a statement like that, I realize that I wasn't in the room when the music I"m listening to was mastered.  I can't know how they wanted it, but these are mostly tunes that I'm familiar with on many systems and if something is mostly 'not forward', then I'm making a broad based assumption that it probably wasn't mastered that way.  Visa versa.  

I now will sell my Ayre QX5, but like the Empirical Audio ODSE/SE, I will miss it greatly.  As for the Atlantic vs, I think the biggest difference is that the Lampi doesn't have quite the detail that the Ayre has and the Ayre's noise floor is the lowest of the two by a bit.  Charlie builds a lot of his own power filtering in the mids on up into all his units now.  The QX5 has special filtering in it. I also liked that it's got one of the best streamers built into it.  It sounds better by a smidge than the Aurender N100 that I heard side by side.  I also feel it's best in balanced mode.  The one thing I like about Ayre is that it's neither tube nor SS.  That is the Ayre sound and it's what Charlie has always been about, even back in his Avalon Accoustic days.  He's one of the few who were able to figure that all out. His diamond stages really pushed that concept forward in his designs.  

I just can't do tubes anymore. I love many of the tube designs and I owned Jadis, Quicksilver, Aesthetix, Conrad Johnson and Audio Research along with Counterpoint (best of most if not for breaking down monthly).  Until I got the Ayre gear a few years ago, tubes were all I owned.  Heck, I'd die for the Vandersteen 7 mk2's with Richards amp that is a tube/hybrid type of amp.  I have enjoyed the Lampi the few times I've heard them.  Would I own one?  Of course I would. Many DAC's I'd own, but I do feel that in the prices ranges I've ended up playing in, I got the right one for my system.

It's crazy as with MS, it takes me so long to write something like this, so please bear with me when I'm off on a tangent at times and if my thoughts aren't always in sync. Thanks.  

Guys I just realized that this thread is 4 years old and has almost 4k posts!  That's just crazy and fun to say the least.  Heard a lot of DAC's this weekend at Cam Jam.  Wasn't impressed with most of them to be very frank.  I felt very let down. There were a couple that were very nice, but you can tell that so many DAC's in the 2-8k range are not great.  There are many that are of course, but overall (in show conditions though), I felt let down by so many of them.  I was surprised by what IEM and headphone companies were using to showcase their top gear.  The Cayin stuff was really fun.  Not 'the best DAC', but we often digress in the thread and let it meander a bit.  I just thought I'd share that so many of the DAC's in this thread are outstanding values at various price points. 

I spent a lot of time on Sunday at the Schitt table.  I know I'll get flamed for this, but I really felt let down. I heard their top offerings in the most recent form I'm assuming and wasn't impressed.  I had borrowed aChord 2 to walk around with (well, roll around. Those who know me realize I can't walk by myself anymore, lol and I also sit a TON).  That smoked the Yggy with that big amp they had.  My own AK380cu DAP was more musical with more micro and macro detail.  Maybe it's just different tastes for everyone type of thing.  I spoke with a few close friends who are reviewers for headphones and IEM's and they don't know the hype, but didn't love the products, so I know it's not just me.

The real point is that I"m not disparaging anything, but again, it really made a huge statement that I'm blessed to have found this thread to sift through the chaff that is out here in the digital world.  Digital is harder to pull off than analog I feel.  Guys like Steve and the Lampi guy are in another class.  I also feel it takes some of the larger companies who have R&D budgets and economy of scale to pull off great digital for say under 2k (Ayre) or the MSB's of the world etc...  Some companies only do digital adn they too get it right....Aurender and some others.  It really hit home for me, what a great designer Steve is as his DAC, and I'm sure his soon to be released headphone amp are mind boggling.  

Thanks G.  I really wanted to love it like you guys do too.  It's all good.

Steve, I totally agree with you.  Do you think it just has to do with adding more layers and chances to mess up the signal?  If not, why do you think it's like that?  Why wouldn't they offer a bypass to go purer?  

I actually don't remember the name of a couple of them as I'm still new to the personal audio world.  The Walker gear was outstanding.  Some of the DACs that sounded nice from 100hz up were with the Stat's and I've yet to hear a stat that has enough bass for me ( sold my Stax a couple of years ago.). Like I said, I was impressed by the Cayin gear.  

Steve, what do you now recommend I do with my Mac mini server that you sold me?  I still have the old Amarra etc...  Should I keep it off the internet totally?  I've been using the USB port that you marked as best SQ.  As you know, I'm not technically great.  Tidal is currently streamed in the Ayre QX5 and not the Mac mini.  Thanks.  I can call you if needed to get your answer or be talked through set up, lol....

Come to CT. You know you are always invited Steve 

mattnshilp OP825 posts03-10-2018 5:43pmHey guys. Let’s keep it on track and respectful. Thanks. Been distracted by the storms and not having power for a week.
 Stop with the excuses Matt!!! ;). HA...

I must have missed something. If I am the offender, I'm sorry.   As for Steve's DAC's I only owned the ODSE tricked out and it was CRAZY good.  Wasn't embarrassed in any system regardless of price.  Yes, that good.

Matt, thanks for doing this.  I have heard the HRS systems in so many places and they are amazing.  I don't think it would be MORE of everything or overkill staying within the system. If it was, then that would lose the point of what their engineers are trying to achieve.  Same with Symposium.  If it was all of their gear, then would there be TOO much detail etc....?  No, I doubt that would be teh case.  I think there becomes the point of diminishing returns, just like everything else. 

What I'd LOVE to see happen next (and I forgot to text you this), if for you to get Sam to bring two of his active isolation platforms his imports from Germany I believe, that are used for special microscopes.  As you know they are out of this world expensive, but I don't think you need a special rack for them.  To me, that is the next logical step in your journey to isolation 101.

Matt very cool.  Can't wait to hear what you come up with.  

I will cut up a few pieces of ebony and try then by themselves under my DAC/Server and integrated to see what they do.  I know Cardas uses Myrtle for theirs, which is tough to find.

Matt, you know I was kidding....well sort of.  I WILL get a few pieces as I have a couple of nice pieces of Gabon in the basement.  I was actually told by a few that they use them under their gear.  I may as well try ;)....  I have heard the same things about Shun Mook for years.  It can't defy physic's, it's just that we don't know enough about them.  I wonder if they stumbled onto how they work or if they figured something out that no one else has.  Regardless, it will be interesting to hear your thoughts as always Matt.  

BTW, you have have three pieces of steel AND aluminum piping that is 1.5" in diameter?  I'll even try to mix and match the two materials, ;).....

I honestly can't wait to hear your thoughts on this last (will it be last) round of footers/shelves.  You know how amazed I am at what you are doing here as you are not letting any biases creep in.  It's your ear and your gear, but there is an overall sound that you come up with so that folks can figure out for themselves, what they will like.  That's why this is a 4 year old thread and it's going strong...Very strong.

So you are saying that nothing beast super..........Gottcha!

Just a very difficult task to compare the footers and shelves.  So many variables. What I'm finding most interesting is that no matter what he does to his Burmeister Preamp that sits on it's own solid steel base, is that none of these seem to matter (Matt???).  Maybe more manufacturers need to work on vibration control in their gear and at least offer upgrades for bases......

outstanding stuff.  Yes, that plinth of theirs needs to be used on other top products.  it's not the most difficult thing to have something like that milled and at least offer it for sale, lol....Pretty cool though.

Matt, what was that convo we had about this last week?/?? LMAO....;)....I wasn't kidding when I said that was the best sound isolation I've ever heard and it was 100% vinyl.  It made the world of difference.  They were outstanding rooms too of course.

If you can keep the speaker cable runs under 8', you should be ok.  Longer is worse as we all know.  You could put the amps in the room with 3' runs and just run the interconnects from the outside.  Use the cable lifters on them and you will be fine.  It's all better than spending all that money on a 20k plus rack, shelves and then footers for most.  Just two shelves and footers for the amps.  your amps are so solid, that I wonder how much difference the footers will do for them.  

LMAO....come on...just dig a new basement in the foundation......

:).....You would put the amps in the room next to teh speakers and JUST worry about a platform and footers for those two.  Everything else would be simple to set up.  The only long run would be the preamp to amps run.  I don't know if you even have the room for that and even if you did, you wouldn't easily be able to figure all of that out.  That was more for how this dealer set up his runs etc... (the one I told you about in Cali).  I think it was near Chatsworth or in Chatsworth.  

I just will always remember that back then, he realized there was a vibration problem and spent as much time on high end cable as he did vibration control.  His system sounded incredible and I forget what the heck he was even running.

Matt, you really obsess?  Seriously? NO way!!!! LMAO....  and we love it! Thanks.

Steve, thanks for speaking up about 'the best way to build a DAC'.  For those who say one is superior to Delta Sigma, you can't make that statement. It's just not true.  If you feel that way for YOUR DAC's that's fine, but personal.  Many of us have owned both and liked the D/S ones that we've purchased better.  Implementation.  Many other factors.  

Charlie Hansen also agrees. He disliked DSD personally.  He also knew how to filter properly.  George it's absolute statements like your's that turn many off. 

Many of us listen to all designs and products and we use our ears.  There are great designs on both sides.  The way you post, you are saying that any R2R design sounds better than any DAC that is D/S.  Teh only absolute in the discussion is that you are plain wrong.  No one is dismissing the R2R being able to sound world class.  

How about speakers George?  Are you going to tell us a certain crossover design being better than another?  Again, totally subjective.  

As Charles and nearly anyone else who has any audio sense will say, it's all about implementation.  If you disagree with that, then you lose any credibility with most folks I would think.  Your constant R2R gets old.  Very dismissive of even a designer like Steve who most of use feel makes one of the best DAC's available.  I've owned and loved his DAC that was R2R and have been told by many I trust that his new DS DAC is a lot better.  One designer, builds one of each and implants them both in an outstanding manor.  He chose DS for his top design.  I realize you will dismiss him by staying on your R2R platform, but that's not cool as he's ever said that R2R can't make a great DAC.  

Can't wait for Matt to get back from his vacation and get back to auditioning, lol.  Once I'm out of the hospital and get a couple more weeks or rest, I'll be heading down to his place (if my ride comes through, lol).  I can't wait to hear his system and what he thinks of the Shun Mook Footers he finally got in before he left.  

Thanks Shadorne, but George will now come back and tell you that you are incorrect. Honestly he lost me again when he said something about Schitt beimg an expensive discrete.....::::  they aren’t in this conversation if too DAC for anything. Nice in their price range but many of us like others in the just over 2k. That’s another topic though.  

He forgets about implementation being much more important since the new ESS chips are so good. Both can sound great. 

None of of us have ever said the old tech can’t sound good when it’s done right. Great designers stay open minded.  Look at Steve and others who can and will use any tech if they feel it can be done right. Others who aren’t open minded can’t be taken seriously. That’s the reality. 

Thanks for the info George. I'll still let my ears make the choice for me like most do.  Both can sound great and that's all that matters.  There is no one is better than the other right now.  Good DAC's on both sides of the isle as has been pointed out by Matt and many others of us who have or still do own both types.  

Thanks Matt.  As you know I have always felt the same way.  You know how concerned I am to potentially run The Memory Player direct into the new Vandersteen mono blocks IF I decide to get them as I can't afford those AND a preamp (would then sell my Ayre AX5/20 integrated, so I wouldn't have a stand alone pre).  Again, I don't mind properly done integrated products as they are matched perfectly and usually by the same engineer. 

welcome back buddy.  Glad that it was a great trip.  Elizebeth, I too have heard that marantz.  I think most equate it with their mass market stuff.  Most have not heard their reference gear which is very nice sounding.  I like warm and not 'hot' gear.  I don't put your DAC into either category.  I think it's a fairly neutral sound with a bit of dynamics.  If anything, the soundstage was a bit more intimate than say the Empirical ODSE/SE that I owned.  Steve's gear threw huge stages.  The Marantz seemed to me to be a nice piece.