UPDATE: (That was quick. Lol.)
Ok, so I shot out a bunch of emails to see if I can arrange some additional auditions. Emails were sent to companies that I received high volume PM's for DAC's & Transport/DAC's to include in the shoutout.
I have already heard back from two that are interested and checking into product availability.
I'll keep you posted. |
I have heard about the Antelope but never heard it.
It is supposed to be quite impressive, but I have never heard anything about its voicing. Warm? Analytical? etc….
Maybe I'll email them also. lol. |
To all interested tube-o-philes. Especially those that felt I should have tried an external USB converter and tube rolled the Lampy Big 6...
Please check out the "Taking the Lampizator Bug 6 to the next level" thread in this same forum. It is excellent and JaFox did everything with NOS tubes, upgrades/mods, and external USB converters that people wanted me to do. I'm SO glad he did all or this. |
UPDATE:
No news on the manufacturer front. No additional responses.
Alex from APL, as he mentioned earlier, has modified his DSD-S DAC based on my findings and is sending it back to me for further evaluation. I am sincerely humbled. His desire to improve upon his product and make it more flexible and satisfying for a larger variety of ears is impressive. I will post when it arrives.
I have also made a new purchase. I had the opportunity to acquire an Esoteric K-01 for a price that was "too good to pass up." Yes, I am aware that Esoteric just announced a new K-01x will be released shortly. But considering the reputation, extreme quality and price level that the K-01 represents, I simply had no choice but to take advantage of the opportunity.
This offers me two new opportunities. Using the K-01 as a CD transport I can now offer opinions on other DAC's through the spdif input running from a well recognized top tier spinner. I do not have an spdif cable and welcome some suggestions for reasonably priced options. (Please don't suggest a $3k cable, cuz I ain't buying it. I'd prefer under $1k to be honest.)
The second opportunity is using the K-01 as a standalone DAC for my Mac Mini. I am actually bristling with curiosity to see how my beloved ODSE compares with a $20,400 retail world class recognized digital Titan. Hang on to your panty hose Steve, cuz I'm cranking up the competition. Lol.
My other option in that same price range, but not quite as good a deal (although I didn't negotiate further because the K-01 became available) was the DCS Puccini/u-clock combo. I was talked out of it by several friends and contributors of this very thread (off thread, of course). I wish I had the $$$ to bring in both and then sell one off.
Sadly, my email to Aesthetix about an audition of the Romulus Sig bounced back as undeliverable. Can anyone PM me their email address?
CTsooner and Audiolabyrynth - I admit, I have been warned. But I have also received PM and emails that the Ayon CD players can be stellar and magical (when not self Imholating).
I'm at the point where I'm uber ahoy with my current ODSE DAC and system. And I know Steve has some upgrades coming that can make it even better. Now with my K-01 I've got a spinner and a top tier DAC to boot.
I'm not honestly looking for more, or better equipment at this time. I need to get my gear into a better room, which will be a slow 6-9 month project that I will keep you updated on. I have to openly admit that I enjoy auditioning the gear and reporting it, it has become a separate part of the enjoyment of this hobby I have developed. I get why reviewers love what they do. I will continue to pursue new DAC's and CD sources and report on them as I can make it happen. Not necessarily to improve upon my own system (which I can't imagine won't happen as a byproduct along the way), but just to have fun and keep this thread going. If anyone can arrange an audition or hook me up with someone who can, please do.
This hobby is incredible. Every time I think I've squeezed as much enjoyment out of it as possible, it gives me something else. |
"I'm at the point where I'm uber ahoy with my current ODSE DAC and system. And I know Steve has some upgrades coming that can make it even better. Now with my K-01 I've got a spinner and a top tier DAC to boot. "
That's supposed to be : uber happy. Lol.
And the K-01 comment implied that it was in addition to my already top tier ODSE. Not in replacement of my lovely little ODSE. |
Erikminer - thank you for spending more of my money. Something I didn't need any help with... Lol.
I will look into the Aurilic. Does it pull files out of my iTunes folder or do I need a separate designated folder? |
OK. I now have a double hernia, but the K-01 is in the rack. I needed to shift some equipment around and move a shelf to fit it. Wow, what a unit! solid as a brick and heavy as a anvil. I am burning it in from CD in the Guido Corona approved setting. I think he put about 250 hours on it already (I think he read Guido's thread since it was already set to those settings).
ODSE will be ready tomorrow. I had to unplug it for 12 hours because of a bad thunder/lightning storm. Even with the whole house power surge suppressor, I still unplug when those big bright flashy zig zaggy things outside threaten to cook my beloved gear!
No time this week to sit down and listen. it will have to wait until next Wednesday. I'll listen to the ODSE and then give the K-01 a quick listen as a dec as well as pulling out some of the CD sources for my test Play list.
No follow ups from the manufacturers, except for Vitus who said they currently have no SCD-025 in the states available for audition, but are working on it.
G'night all... |
AGear. Not sure what your deal is with the persistent commentary about my wife, but she had no problem with the car. Her issue is in regards to having a big ugly stereo and acoustic treatments in our office.
And I have not heard a lot of DSD at this time. Although the DSD library is growing, it's not extensive for my tastes yet. |
I am not sure about ODSE ever being DSD compatible. Maby Steve can chime in on that. I'm still not on the DSD wagon as the mass of my music is red book (hence the thread title). I got the K-01 to play discs and convert DSD from the computer. I'm curious to see how the K-01's DAC compares red book to the ODSE.
I tried listening to my turntable today. Something's amiss. It plays but sounds thin. I need someone with analog experience over to help.... Sigh.
Still cooking the esoteric. I'm putting Wed aside to listen to my ODSE. Now that it's fully burned in, I want to make sure it sounds as good as the demo ODSE I had. Then I'll start listening to the esoteric a bit more and reporting.
Word on the DSD-S front is that it's on its way back. I need more time!!
For those who appreciate it, I have a brand new Yamaha C2X grand piano being delivered Monday afternoon. I'm VERY excited. And my son, who really makes those ivory's singe, is even more excited.
Also, next Saturday I'm picking up a 2013 Porsche Boxster S PDK/sport chrono pack/active suspension management & torque vectoring. Got it certified pre-owned for a steal!
Not showing off at all, just really excited about some of my audiophile related and not so related hobbies! |
Your a strange man AGear.....
Nothing new to report. Hoping I have some time wed to do some listening. I must be crazy. Considering my abject lack of free time, I should just invest in a good pair of ear buds and load up my iPhone and give up....
But I won't! |
Manual transmission is past history. Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren all don't even offer anything but paddle shifters. Even Porsche only offers PDK on the new 911 turbo. The human factor is the limiter to much faster 0-60 times. I had a 2007 911 turbo for years and it was manual. It was great but I never got close to the full performance out of it; it needed PDK. The cars speed and tech has superseded my ability to shift quickly enough. And I honestly like paddle shifting; it's like clutchless shifting, but I am still completely in control of when I shift, and what gears I shift into to. But then, in traffic, you can just pop it back into automatic and drive free and easy.
Yes the Berkeley is intriguing. I'm still trying to get a Romulus in as well. The list continues. |
JoeCasey - I have owned an '85 911 M491 wide body, '95 993 C2 Cabriolet and '97 993 Twin Turbo. I'm actually selling my yellow 993 cabriolet right now. I agree, the driving experience is more raw, more mechanically connected to the road; no doubt. Manual is a no brainer on the 964 and 993; it's intuitive and literally lets you become one with the car.
PDK vs manual is, coincidentally, very much akin to CD vs LP.
Best, if possible, to have both as each has their benefits and rewards. |
UPDATE:
Just so that the audio only guys here don't go crazy listening to car banter during the lull....
I spent about 2 hours listening yesterday to my new, fully burned in, ODSE.
Just as good as my loaner! Don't know why, but I was a little worried. Totally unjustified, it sounds amazing! Every time I listen to that ODSE I fall in love with my music all over again!
The current setting of the K-01 will be done on the 23rd. There is one other setting I want to burn in, and I'll do that using the USB input so that gets cooked at the same time. Gonna be a bit before I can compare ODSE DAC to K-01 DAC. I burned my test tracks onto CD, so I will also compare K-01's CD player to my ODSE as well... Sorry, with all the burn in, it's gonna be a bit.
I'm working on another project that I will report on if I can get my ducks in a row. Should be very cool. |
Agear, I resent that.... My double caramel macchiato is never skinny!
Truth be told, it's a Grande Vanilla Latte with 3 equals. :P |
1. dCS Vivaldi stack
2. Berkeley Reference
3. Esoteric Grandioso
Don't look at me!
I'd rather buy a McLaren 650S Spider for that kind of money! Or put a deposit down on a new office building for my practice!
Hell, for that kind of money I could actually AFFORD a divorce!!!!
Lol. |
Erikminer: I'm very intrigued by your suggestion for a DAC based on Shmop Amps, peanut butter caps and mouse nut resistors!!
I wonder if you could upgrade the caps to smooth peanut butter as the chunky gives the bass bloat and creates a harsh treble. Mouse nuts are clearly difficult to harvest and dramatically increase cost, but I think it would be worth while to roll those nuts and try Squirrel, Chipmunk and maybe even Russian Bat. Obviously a matches pair are always preferred!
Shmop Amps are truthfully only necessary in kosher homes as the shmops must be blessed by the proper audiophile rabbi's. Easier to find around Passover season. When used properly, Oy are they good!!! |
I'm going to try to find time this week to give the DSD-S a solid listen to be fair to Alex and give everyone a good idea of my thoughts on it.
The K-01 is done burning Tuesday for the first set of settings also. So hopefully i can report a bt in the coming week - if I evan find time. Its been SO busy... |
Audiolabyrinth - Not at all.
I'm mid reviews and burn ins. Not much to add.
But you are re-affirming my point about chasing the rabbit with tube rolling. For some, it's the bees knees and their personal route to audio nirvana. I found that it ended up taking away from my enjoyment of the hobby because of my own obsessive need to try everything in every combo....
I can tell you all that with stock tubes, the Big 6 was humbled six ways to Sunday by my ODSE. I can't comment on the Big 7.
With Steve's implementation of the improved USB interface it will take the ODSE up another notch. And now he openly announced his pending uber DAC, the OverDrive SX. I can't wait!!
I'm cooking the DSD-S right now. Wanna give it another week of steady zeros and ones before final review. |
Ketcham - cool. It's not in the budget right now, but I'll definitely reconsider it later. Thanks.
Hi all, sorry for the hiatus. Been crazy at work. Looks like everyone has been keeping themselves occupied here.
I've been working on my dedicated audio room design and have been auditioning some new amps to see how much better amps can get then my already incredible Merrill Veritas monoblocks. I have been ecstatic with the ODSE and have settling into my decision with conviction. With that said, I have Alex's modified DSD-S here and will finally have time tomorrow morning to give it a solid listen. I'll post results on Saturday. Steve is also working on both an upgrade for his ODSE as well as a higher level Overdrive, the Overdrive SX. When it's ready I will get a demo in and compare the two. Can't wait for that!!! For those interested, the SX will be DSD compatible.
For those going, I will be at the NY Audio show in Brooklyn tomorrow from 2-8pm. I'll have my iPhone on me to check, so if anyone is going then post on this thread and maybe we can hook up..
I with I had time to go to Rocky Mountain AF. That sounds like the one to go to! |
Oh. The K-01 is done with the first set of settings burned in, and I'm doing the second set right now. That will be done 10/15 and then I'll be able to really give it a solid listen. At some point I need to hook my computer to the K-01 and try it as a DAC; but I have read several times, in several places, that the USB input on the K-01 is mediocre (compared to dedicated USB to spdif converters) and really limits the DAC's use with USB computer output. |
Not rolling. Eventually upgrading. But my Veritas amps are SO good that it's going to take a HUGE investment to make upgrading worthwhile. Everything in between Veritas and stupid expensive isn't worth spending money to upgrade to because the improvement is not worth the expense. So it's stupid expensive amps I'm looking at.
But the listening room needs to happen first.
I'll report a bit about the amp while I'm reporting about the DSD-S. |
I have tried to keep my amp search on the down low to keep things from getting complicated. But I have heard the Mola Mola amps and they are in the same class as my Veritas amps. I actually preferred my Veritas amps. But the Audionet Max monoblocks, Tenor 175s, Burmester 911mk3 and Rowland 825 are in a different league entirely.....
And we are at 132k views. Cool. |
UPDATE:
Hi all, I know I haven't posted one of these in a while since my search has sort of ended with my ODSE safe and snug in my rack. But Alex, of APL Audio has been persistent and accommodating with his DSD-S DAC for my evaluation. My initial impressions were utilized to modify the DAC (I will let Alex describe the changes) to something that he thought I would like more, and he was right.
I have had the luxury of listening to my system with a loaner amp and pre-amp for the last 3 weeks that's puts the Uber in Uber gear. I have been enraptured by my wonderful ODSE being fed into the world class Burmester 911mk3 stereo amplifier ($35k retail) and the Burmester 077 pre-amp ($50k retail). The 077 has its optional $5k DAC card, which I will be listening to next week to see how it compares to my ODSE and all the other outboard DAC's I have heard. The 911 and 077 are each truly world class and offer insane performance when used with other gear, but when put together, the 911/077 combination is literally transcendental!
The 911 sounded absolutely wonderful and incredibly engaging with my top tier Rowland Criterion. But when the Criterion was replaced with the 077, just WOW. The walls fell away from my room and I was sitting in whatever venue or recording studio the event/recording happened at. Just wow. On a different level of performance then anything I have heard before.
I am now dying to get the Rowland 825 amp into my system for a trial to see if its the magic of like company amp/pre-amp... Will my Criterion/825 combo sound that good? Or close to that good? I really hope so because $85k retail is a rather imposing number to lust after gear for.
But I digress.
So the DSD-s was compared to my tried and true ODSE on my current uber system with all else the same. And I have become familiar with the Burmester/ODSE sound.
The modified DSD-S was, IMHO, a dramatic step up from its previous iteration. It did still show a slight bright edge on piano at times, but I sincerely believe that will settle with additional burn in. Musical, engaging, articulate and with a wide soundstage that very nicely placed everything and everyone where they belonged.
If I was now deciding between all the DAC's I had, I would put the Aeris and DSD-S on similar ground performance and sound wise. I will admit, that the ODSE still has something about it that grabs me at moments that the other two just don't quite as well. But at the level I am at, i think that could be reversed with different equipment or cabling. All three are excellent and can make people very happy.
The DSD-S and ODSE are two sides of the same coin. Both high quality boutique DAC's that clearly deliver the goods. You can't go wrong with either.... Listening becomes mandatory to make that final choice. |
I have had no luck getting any other suggested DAC in for evaluation . I know many of you wanted me to include the Romulus or Pandora. No success thus far. It seams that the only way, in general, to get a DAC in to audition is to buy it. |
Ha! My opinion is THE opinion! No other opinion should exists!
You should all agree with everything I say without hesitation or thought!
Bwa hahahaha!
Ehem.
Did I say that out loud?
;) |
Melbguy
I can't find anyone in USA to get me a Vitus unit for audition. I was intrigued before and went through the motions. I don't think they are really well established in the USA. At least not on the east coast.
Alex keeps tempting me with his wonderful creations. I will certainly replace by prized ODSE if/when it is sufficiently humbled...
I also look forward to hearing Steve's new ODSX. |
I don't remember exactly now, but I think I had about 1k hours on it +/-
Glad you are loving it, it was an exceptional dac that, I guess, got even better. Cool.
You can't go wrong with any I have heard really. More ear and system dependent then anything else.... |
I have been told by all who show at the Audio shows that it takes at least 3-5 days minimum to re-break in a component after moving or shipping. Some take even longer.
The Aeris had stabilized. Guido was quite emphatic about giving it enough burn in time. The more I think about it, the more I am sure it had over 1200-1400 hours on it. I brought it in because of Guido and really wanted it to be my top choice..... Fit and finish are just stunning. I went back and read my notes and the posts on this thread and, in my room, it had stabilized.
I'm really glad the next owner is enjoying it. |
Ozzy - can you please describe the improvements? |
Hello all....
My humble apologies for not posting for a while. The K-01 is a daunting beast when it comes to burn in. Each freakin' setting requires its own 500 hours of burn in, which is slow and makes for a boring posting period. Again, apologies.
At this time, I have burned in:
S-dly2/4x upsampling - 500+ hours
DSD/0 upsampling - 500+ hours
S-dly1/4x upsampling - complete on 11/7
Once done, I will sit and decide which of the settings I like the best. I have purchased a few SACD's to enjoy during that session, although I have ripped my current 16/44 demo song list onto CD as well to keep things red book for a fair and equal comparison.
Once I have decided which setting I like best, I will then burn that setting in another 500 hours while simultaneously burning in the USB input from my computer to compare the K-01 as a standalone DAC with my lovely ODSE. Sorry again, but to get the most from the K-01 really requires a lot of time. As far as I am concerned, a well burned in piece of kit has a higher value then something brand new....
From my reading, I have read the USB conversion system in the K-01 is not the best. My expectation is that my ODSE will beat the K-01 as a DAC for my Mac; but I remain open minded until the notes hit my ears. I still think that the ODSE's Off Ramp USB conversion tech gives it a huge advantage.... That said, the performance of Alex's DAC was exceptional and he was implementing some newer USB conversion tech (as he described). I am waiting anxiously for Steve's new ODSX to hit the shelves; I have very very high expectations...
Please remember that Steve is here because I invited him. I think he has been appropriate and professional all along. Never criticizing others negatively and frequently adding a level of technical knowledge I, for one, woefully lack.
Also remember that I didn't really buy the K-01 to use as a DAC; I bought it to have a top tier SACD source.
I have no doubt that the new Berkeley unit is stellar, and I will watch closely for a good deal to come up so that I can grab one and try it in my room. Feel free to PM me if you see a good deal on one.
Speaking of my room, I should be starting construction on my dedicated listening room in a few weeks. 15' x 18.5' x 9' dedicated room just for me and my stereo. No windows, 1 door. All switches, outlets, fixtures exactly where I want them to put treatments where they need to go and make the room sound its best. I have high hopes that it will take my system to another realm entirely, considering how good it sounds now in such a bad room.
I believe I will eventually use a combination of treatments including GIK, Vicoustics, Acoustic Fields and potentially a custom piece or two... Although I do believe I can accomplish 95% of what I need with just Vicoustics and GIK.
My biggest question is the classic absorption vs diffusion at the first reflection points and front wall. Most other treatments are pretty well agreed upon... Corner traps, combo of diffusion and absorption on rear wall. I'm waiting for some room evaluations/calculations to come through. I'll keep you posted.
I welcome opinions and suggestions for room treatments.
I'll keep you updated on the Room, and the K-01 as things progress.
On a side note, the Burmester gear is being picked up next week. I'm sad to see it go and see them as a target to focus on for next year. I need to restate that it requires a $35K retail amplifier to replace my Veritas monoblocks. I tried a bunch of amps in between the price of the Veritas and the Burmester 911mk3 and although some were better, none were better enough to justify selling the Veritas and upgrading; the cost to improvement over the Merrill amps just wasn't there. Not until the 911mk3/077 combo. That is quite a feather in Merrill Audio's hat. And the list of amps I tried includes other NC1200 "digital" amps including the Mola Mola. The Veritas amps are really that good... |
I just remembered why I have not looked into the Berkeley equipment more closely - no USB input.
Goes WAY back in the thread - but I don't want to deal with a separate USB to SPDIF converter and additional cable. I just don't. There were a few absolute top tier DAC's that just never made my list because they didn't have USB inputs. And I think one or two on my list would have done better if their USB conversion was better.
Maybe after I have upgraded everything else as far as I can, and finished my room, would I feel the need to move beyond my current DAC (or the K-01 or ODSX if I like it more) and take the steps to bring in a separate USB to SPDIF converter and additional cable. Or, more likely would be that somewhere along the way I find a top tier digital music server that satisfies my needs and has an SPDIF output... |
Ericminer - you are correct. But I'm waiting another year or so for the next generation of music servers. The current kits come SO close to ideal for me, but not quite there yet.
When I replace my Mac Mini, I'll have spdif output and can try some days I'm currently shying away from.
I wish you guys could hear what I am getting from my Mac/odse/Burmester /die Muzik system. It's on another level. And that's in a terrible room.
First- better room.
Then new server....
But all of your points are valid.
Jon - are you OK? Lol. That was an interesting set of posts. I always agree with myself also. ;) |
Just to keep a conversation going while I continue my burn in....
I did a quick search for current music servers
Here are my requirements:
-must be a fully self contained unit or system (ie. not dependent on a computer to store the data).
-must have USB and spdif digital outputs, fully hi-res supported
-must be from a company that will still exist in 5 years (I think this is the biggest challenge right now)
-must be obviously well designed and well made with quality parts and a well implemented/well dampedm chassis.
-must connect to the network so I can pull data/files off of my Mac
-must connect to network so i can access on-line services like Tidal.
-must have a simple well laid out App to control it.
-strongly prefer it does NOT have an internal DAC.
Here is a lost of what I have found:
YFS - HD-ref3 (this is basically a purpose built PC in a PC chassis)
Lumin S1 with L1 library/storage
Antipodes DX
Aurender W20
BMC PureMedia
Any opinions? Any experience? Any thoughts.
My only 2 thoughts are these:
1) Whatever I would buy will be essentially worthless 2 years later since it will be very very quickly woefully outdated.
2) None of the current major players really have a product like this yet. Why is that?? |
Oh. And the Auralic Aeris is an intriguing product that I have been eyeing for 6 months. At only $1600- it's very tempting. I'm just not convinced it will improve upon what I have. In fact, I can't really see how it would do anything more then add an unnecessary box between my Mac and my DAC.
I'm watching on the 'gon for one. When it shows up, I'll bite. It's worth a try I guess. I would rather just go for a full on music server then a media streamer though..... |
Sorry. As I think about it more, I guess the disadvantage to having a dedicated server is that you need to move your data/library every time you replace/upgrade your unit versus using a media streamer that just pulls the data out of a static folder that lives on your computer.
I just have a hard time believing that the sound wouldn't be better if it was stored on solid state media within the actual device....
I honestly don't know what's better.... |
In an effort to obsess about something else while waiting for my esoteric to burn in, I have jumped into a nice obsession about the current state of high end music servers. The ones I listed seam to be at the top of their game for under $20k.
I have, of course, read several glowing reviews of these products. But, as I suspected, I have also read many threads on many different forms (as well as a review of the current top dog W20 from Aurender by the infamous Seaman Eben, himself, of 6moons) that state quite flatly that these $10-$16k purpose built music servers don't sound any better then a well set up, power supply upgraded, music specific computer...
I'm just not sold. But i will try an Auralic Aeris just to give it a chace; as long as it's USB works with my ODSE. |
UPDATE: I cheated it by 4 days. But I did my comparison. I just couldn't wait any longer.
CD ripped from my playlist.
Dsd/no filter: absolutely the lowest noise floor; but artificially so. It sounds like a noise gate is in place. I agree, edgy. Digital. Filtered, which is funny considering it's the setting without any filters.... Like the complexity of the music had been removed to fit. Imagine cropping the Mona Lisa to fit in a 2x2 passport photo.... Not my taste. But imaging was laser point...
S-Dly1/4x up conversion - warm, musical, a bit mushy at times. Like tubes, but not as good as tubes done really well. Sound stage was deep and wide. Imaging a bit soft, but not bad. Still enjoyable and I could easily see using this setting on overly bright recordings.
S-Dly2/4x up conversion - oh yeah. That's the ticket. Not sure why they really have the other settings to be honest.... But people like choices. Musical while retaining accuracy, engaging, wide, deep, sure footed and dynamic.
Next it's to start trying the USB input and use it as a DAC.
I'll keep you posted.
-Matt |
I'm Sorry. Can you explain the benefit of Ethernet over USB?
I'm having a hard time processing what the advantages are.
Doesn't this all come down to Jitter and clocking? Wouldn't the ideal server be connected to a DAC that shares a single external high end clock?
Steve, does your ODSX have inputs for an external clock? |
AUdiolabyrinth - I read that article. His impressions agree with both of ours. And with Steve's. The BEST DAC is one with a built in USB to i2S converter that is top tier. As he stated, even MANY ultra exotic DAC's have crappy, inexpensive USB converters built in.
That is why the new BA Reference DAC doesn't have a USB input. They expect you to use their external USB-SPDIF conveyer if you need USB in. I respect that and wish more high end companies just went that route.
I have said, and will say again, that I think one of the big reasons my OSDE keeps beating the competition is because of its internal Off Ramp tecnhnology. Look at Alex's DSD-S as an example. He spent the time and money to put in a solid USB input and his DAC clearly showed that.
If you have a spinner or a Music Server as a source - anything with SPDIF out (or i2s) then my comparison may not be 100% applicable for your needs. But if you are using a computer as a music source, the ODSE is practically impossible to beat for close to it's price. |
Hi all, I'm in construction and would love opinions, suggestions, comments about my dedicated room build.
I'm posting on my Virtual System page. Please read and comment ASAP to let me know your thoughts. Room is being wired up in next 2 weeks and then rocked.
So changes now=easy. Changes after rock = hard and expensive. |
Trying to understand....
Isn't a dedicated Earth ground simply using a shielded grounding wire from the outlet to the panel? So it doesn't directly share it's ground with anything else until it's in the panel? If yes, how does that differ from the standard non shielded ground in the Romex since its a dedicated outlet and doesn't share it's ground with anything between the outlet and the panel? I use plastic single gang boxes, so they don't need to be grounded. |
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1386218525&openflup&34&4#34 |
UPDATE:
Finally got some time to compare the ODSE and give the Esoteric K-01 a good listen.
Most interestingly, I had the time to really give the different settings a listen on the K-01. First impressions were with short listening sessions. At times, I preferred the SDLY-2/4x settings and at times I preferred the DSD/off settings. The DSD/off setting is warmer and more musical but sacrifices high end refinement and extension. The low frequencies are more defined and the midrange has more of a tube warmth to it. The SDLY-2/4x setting is more articulate, more accurate and has significantly more extension in the higher registers. Overall I found the later to be a bit stringent and bright at times; although with full on orchestral majesty the SDLY2/4x setting seamed to reveal more of the music while giving up a bit of musical involvement.
i found more of a change when moving through the up conversion settings then the digital filter settings.
In contrast to my initial impressions I kept turning the settings back to DSD/Off unless listening to symphony where I just felt I was missing something with the DSD setting in play. For Symphony I chose Guido's 4x/SDLY2 most of the time but listener fatigue typically set in and I needed to change back to DSD/Off. I only burned in those settings, so for me to fully play would be another 500 hours with the FIR and SDLY1 settings. With vocals, rock, jazz and all other music, DSD/off was the obvious way to go. And this is on both CD direct as well as USB.
CD clearly sounded superior to USB, although not by nearly as much as one would have expected. I guess Esoteric didn't cheap out on the USB input. But with $21K retail to play with, they really should have enough money to go around and make everything pretty much top tier. There was a slight difference in levels between the CD and the USB input (even with my Mac set at full output). The CD was a bit louder but was easily adjusted with volume while listening. Dynamics were slightly improved and a sense of complexity more evident with the CD source, but VERY VERY subtle. sometimes I think I was hearing it just to hear a difference.
The background with the K-01 was pitch black. Like, black hole black. Zero, silence, the complete absence of anything but black.
ODSE back in play…. Black came back a tad, not quite black hole, but silent still. Like you knew the energy of the universe was there, but couldn't really perceive any physical culmination of that energy. But the magic that is the ODSE was there. Not overly bright, nor with mid's that stood out. There seamed to me to be more complexity in the music, more inner detail and more energy.
This was a very hard comparison as both are off the charts good. I need to sit down and do some more listening as I was pulled away shortly after putting the ODSE back in so my second half of the comparison was not complete….
I'll be back when I find the time. Hoping this Wednesday.
Cheers. |
Thanks guys. My lines are run and I don't want to pull any more 10 gauge romex. I have 4 dedicated 10 gauge lines - each running to it's own outlet.
This conversation is happening on my system thread also. I got some great suggestions for ground loop control if I end up with any issues. My electrical system is VERY quiet since I live on a street with only 10 houses covering over 40 acres. And I had an Eaton whole house surge suppression system installed 6 months ago.
I ran 4 exactly identical lengths of 10/2 romex with the ground wire insulated in its own sub-channel in the romex.I don't think grounding issues will be a problem. If they are, I can always add an Environmental Potentials EP-2750 ground filter to each circuit in the sub-panel or Granite Audio Ground Zero #502 if its really needed.
Here's some interesting questions though...
1) Do you think that the motor system for my turntable needs to be connected to the same circuit as my phono stage or can I just run it to a standard accessory outlet next to the rack? I have a Teres Audio table and the motor is a totally separate module (its actually a trickle charger that charges a marine battery). There is an optical sensor built into the table to monitor speed, but that sensor is far away from the arm/cartridge and platter. The arm and cartridge are isolated and grounded to the phono stage.
I'm thinking its fine to plug it into the accessory outlet.
2) Should I keep the monitor for my computer plugged into the same outlet as my computer (which will be plugged into the "Digitial" dedicated line behind the rack)? or can I run that to the accessory circuit as well?
I'm thinking run it to the "Digital" dedicated line since it's connected to the computer directly with a video cable.
-OR-
should I run an identical length run of 14/2 romex to the sub-panel for a "dedicated" 15 amp accessory circuit for the turntable motor and the computer monitor? It would share a common ground at the sub-panel (which currently only has the 4 dedicated 20 amp circuits).
Hummmmmm...... |
I ran all 10 gauge solid copper wire. Heavy as hell. My system is fully to code, but I do it myself. It takes me longer then a professional would, but I save a fortune on billable electrician hours and I know its done to my particular standards.
Its not that hard to do a simple system like this. Even the lights aren't hard. I am happy to walk anyone through the process. I have a friend who is a licensed electrician and I am having him inspect everything prior to getting final inspections from the town. Its fun and rewarding to know I did my own wiring for my listening room.
I just need to take mpeg video of the whole room, floor to ceiling so that I can refer to it in the coming years if a change needs to be made. Its always good to have a full video of the floor, walls and ceiling to know where every stud, cable and duct in your walls is exactly located. I did this when I built my whole house and I cant tell you how may times I refer back to the videos since we moved in 7 years ago... |
ctsooner - I will call and ask the specific of the meeting at Audio Connection. I would love to go if I can get free...
Steve - Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely will.
I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits running to the rack, one for digital, 1 for analog. Each runs to it's own single outlet.
I'm going to pass on the isolated ground rod thing. As I said, I found some simple to implement (and inexpensive) solutions. I'll stick to my grounding bar in my sub-panel... |
It's sort of meandering about. I sorta like it.
Tubes for a bit, then music servers, now a bit on AC wiring. All good. And I'm learning a lot with each wandering.
I'm still cooking my Esoteric K01 so nothing to report until it's done. I'm happy to see the thread finds interesting things to fill the voids in time. The K01 will be done next Monday, 11/24. I will then compare the ODSE to the K01 as an independent DAC as well as compare the Mac/ODSE vs a red book cd played on the K01 - obviously with the same exact recordings (ripped CD file compared to CD itself)
I do have a local guy who can get the Allnic DAC into my room; he's also providing my Vicoustics treatments. And I just may have found a new dealer to work with who, I hope, can get me the Aesthetix Romulus Signature you all have been requesting I hear. I'll keep you updated on all of that as well.
But with a room build in progress, I'd rather wait for the Romulus and Allnic until my room is done.
I swear, Melbguy1, I haven't lost site of the topic. But my search is slow and methodical. And burn in chews up weeks at a time....
I will say that I am not (currently) pursuing the new Berkely top dog DAC since it lacks USB input. |
K01 done burning in usb Monday. I'll put something up by Wed.
Room is progressing. All wiring done except few details with lighting. I'm recovering from running the 4/3 cable from mains to sub panel. My shoulder is killing me. A HUGE thank you to JEA48 on the 'Gon who has really helped me on the rights and wrongs to make the electrical audiophile grade.
They are framing out the rear soffit today and then putting up insulation. Probably rocking next week. It's amazing how the contractors think I'm insane for what this is and the meticulous detail to which I want everything done. |
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Room is framed, wired and insulated. I just wired the sub panel into the main today. I ran 4/3 Romex from sub to main. Did I complain about working with 10/2??? Once working with 4/3, 10/2 is cake!
The sub panel is a 125 amp, 20 breaker Square D panel running through the 4/3 with a 70 amp double breaker in my main commercial grade GE box. The Square D panel has 5 dedicated 20 amp circuits all from the same Line to maintain phase. I wired my 5 PS Audio outlets into their dedicated 20 amp circuits, labeled them accordingly and tested the entire room; utility outlets (running from the main panel), overhead lights (running from the main panel) and my dedicated circuits all functioning and no arcing seen. Phew!
I left the top 4 spots (2 on each side) to put a surge protection device in Line as the first circuits after the tie in off the main. The main panel has a whole house SPD, but I'm putting a second on on my sub-panel to be totally safe. This way I feel super comfortable running my amps straight into the outlet with no power conditioner/surge protection needed other then my Shunyata power cords.
I know its not DAC related, but I have learned a TON doing this and am more then happy to share my newly learned knowledge with any who have questions. It's not hard, you just need to be super meticulous.
Sheetrock next. Picking colors and carpet next week.
Trying to decide what treatments I'm doing now and later. Definitely corner base traps and first reflection diffusers. Probably something subtle on front and back to reduce slap echo.
Trying to find time to compare the K01 DAC with the ODSE. |
