Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Audioman, you should find a dealer for the new Ayre Codex at 1500 or so and bring in your DAC to listen side by side.  I have heard the Yagsdradall (which is a nice DAC for the price IMHO) vs the Codex and to me the Codex seems to be in a different league.  The Schiit guys do a wonderful job and offer great value as you stated, but the new Codex is to me a game changer.  No pre or post ringing, dynamic and just a great buy.  I heard them both in a very revealing system that costs around 80k or so.  I listened to a few other under 5k DAC's that day in that system (the Schiit unit happened to be there as it belonged to a customer who wanted to hear it vs the Codex.  The Schiit unit was on my very short list until I was able to buy the Empirical OSDE/SE which is a killer DAC in it's own right and maybe the best 'value' DAC made right now (again IMHO).  

Steve, thanks for that info.  I think I may just get a Melco NAS/server and then I can use it as a server/streamer for now and later on see where things go and use it as the best audio NAS available.  

Wow, it's amazing how the tech is changing from the beginning of this thread to now.  Steve, how does this new cable differ from the one I have from you with the USB block (forget the name, but it's that small block that cuts the 5v signal)?  What are the price differences and sound difference in your opinion?  

Matt, we should talk knives soon. I collect hand made Japanese cooking knives.  I also collect special marking knives for my woodworking.  I have a friend who turns tops and they are awesome. He won't sell them though, lol.  I tried turning one, but didn't like it, so I kept with bowls and making furniture, lol.  

Matt, you need to call Johnny to see if he has the new AQ Niagara Power station (or whatever it's called).  I spoke with a friend who had one in his system. He's had the top Hydra as well as the top SR Powercell (two of his favorites so far).  He said that it's still early, but he plugs EVERYTHING into this Niagara and it's unreal. Says it has lowered what was already a very low noise floor.  He hears better dynamics because of this lowered noise.  No limiting at all and he listens to very dynamic orchestral as well as everything else under the sun.  He said it was the best 7k he's spent on his system for upgrades.  He also likes Burmeister, but has switched to the new Ayre twenty series.  He has the Vandy 7's and has owned nearly everything else out there.  He loves the older Avalon's if that gives you an idea of what he likes.  I'm assuming he's still using the top tier AQ cables.  

Matt, check out the Basis TT with the Vector 4 tonearm.  The arm alone is worth the price of admission. I have the Basis with the rebuilt Rega 300 series arm and feel it's as good as any TT I've heard under 5k or so. I run a Benz cart (my set up was only 1500 and that included the cart as it was NOS).  That arm though is one of the best I've ever heard at any price.  They have one above that, but it's going to be way too costly for your budget and honestly, the vector 4 is so good you won't miss the upper line arm.  I strongly believe it's sound is in the range of what you enjoy listening to.  Sorry to go on, but to me that arm is a bargain in the same vein that Steve's OSDE/SE is/was.

Yes Matt, it does suck, but for many of us, that's the way it is.  I wish I could afford an even better system, but I can live vicariously though many of you guys and visit a lot of dealers whom I know and don't seem to mind me not purchasing with every trip.  

Those are good questions and ones that many of us were wondering about a bit I'm sure. Takes nothing away from my thoughts about your posts, but congrats on the office building.  That's a great thing I'm sure.  

Much more than what it started out as, however it's still digital at the core.

Thanks for sharing Jeff.  It's amazing to me how much better the DAC's at all levels are getting.  I'm starting to look at DAC's for my iPhone as I'm into portable a bit and I can tell you that even at the 500 on down level it's amazing at what is coming out.  

Based on the buzz with MQA, I really keep wondering how this will affect the high end DAC's that most of us discuss here on this thread.  I know that Steve has chimed in a bit and I thank you for doing that.  They say that the DAC will be the most important component for using MQA.

It's funny as I liked the Berkley when I first heard it, but it didn't blow me out of the water.  Same with the Trinity ref.  I really liked the DCS Rossini and the full stack when I've heard it/them, but I also think that there are a few DACs that are close or even better depending on the system they are used in.  The one take away from Jeff's post above is that he always says 'in my system to my ears'.  This is so true.  


the reason this thread keeps on giving is because there are plenty of folks who are giving an honest assessment and not just trumpeting their own purchase/DAC.  There are some in this thread who only champion what they own and most of use have figured that out already.  I think that right now I'd love to hear Steve's new DAC the OSDX, Bricasti (heard it once with a full Tidal system and LOVED it), EMM's newest upgrade, Lampy, DCS and not yet released or spoken about, but the eventually to be released the Ayre 5 series I'm assuming or a ref series as Ayre does digital extremely well (LOVE the Codex...just LOVE IT).  

It's really becoming a fun time for digital as it does have a ton of advantages over other mediums, but the drawbacks are being dealt with with new designers and better availability of components.  
Thanks all for sharing .

Can't confirm, but personally I just listen to how things sound and never worry about how it's recorded.  I've heard both sound good and both sound like crap.  IRT the Chord DAVE, that would be a deal breaker for me for sure.  There are potentially some really nice DAC's coming to market at the 13k level.

Empirical
EMM
Bricasti
Aesthetix
Chord

I'm sure there are others.  I also see some really promising devices under 2k now also.  It's almost like there will be a big chasm between price points pretty soon.  

I love the Codex.  I heard it with my Noble IEM's and Nighhawk's.  I didn't get to listen in balanced mode, but I know that's even better.  The Codex is very very good.  Better than many of the 5k DACs in this discussion, however it's not in the same league as the upper end DAC's we are discussing from Empirical and some others.  I'm an Ayre guy too. I can't wait for them to release their new upper end DAC and or ref DAC soon.  Those should be outstanding and will be in this discussion for the best DAC for redbook music

I"ve heard the Codex on a full size high end system and it was on the polite side, but the extremes were there.  The room filled up with pressure when it was supposed to and the dynamics were there.  I have found the Nighthawks to also be a bit polite for my can's/IEM tastes.  I like more dynamics, but again I was in 3.5mm non balanced mode.  The Codex isn't 5k and above DAC, but it can play in that range.  That's why I can't wait to see what they release later this year.

Darn I'm sorry Matt.  Hope it gets resolved quickly.  getting my Rhea phono back Saturday.  Bought it from a guy who does a lot of stuff on this board and I got it dead out of the box. Said it was new tubes direct from Aesthetix.  Turned out to be older model and wasn't opened since Dec 14, 2014.  He got it from a dealer in Cali and never opened it (he sells most of this guys used/trade in gear a few of us think).  If he doesn't pay the 312 for labor (the company gave me the parts as they felt badly for me.  Jim White and Glenn over there are AWESOME.  Just like Steve.) I will share all names of the parties involved and post on nearly every board I can think of. One of the posters in this thread nearly purchased a used Ayre amp, but noticed it was hammered and backed away.  Same dealer and seller ;).  

Matt, get well quickly. I hope to get the Melco N1ZH as soon as it gets it's US release.  

Sorry Matt.  Have you tried the new AQ Niagara Power station?  I've only talked to one person who has used it and he was blown away at how low the noise floor became and how strong the dynamics are now. He claimed he had all the top conditioners in and this was the first one that he could plug his mono blocks in without losing some steam.  I think they are all upgrading the grounding and it's a huge difference as it keeps everything so clean.  I am not an engineer, but that's a common thread.  

Sounds great Matt. Hope you are doing well.  Really looking forward to how things go here!  

Great to hear Matt.  BTW guys, the Ayre DAC will be unveiled in Germany next week.  9k is the point of entry.  I am not sure, but it may have a streamer built in also.  Not totally sure on that. Lot's of options

Ok, I can now share info on the Ayre QX-5 Twenty.  It's nearly an all in one machine that will cost around 9k in the US.    I"m excited to hear it as it streams Deezer and Tidal, can hook up to your hard drive or NAS and has a totally new DAC they are using.  Lot's of inputs and if you want Roon, you can just get a small Intel box that I just found out about to run Roon.  I will share that I spoke with Alex last week about the unit and they are holding off on MQA, but only for now.  They want to see if the record companies pick up on it.  IF that happens, they will then all have MQA and I'm not sure, but that may just be a firmware update to include it.  I know these first units aren't shipping with it (kind of like them adding DSD on the old DAC a year or two into it's life cycle).  MQA sounds better than Hi Res to me, but as you all know by now, it's not a high res format .....yet.  This DAC will debut at the next show (Bristol) so you will have the major mags reporting on it.  I was told that this is a game changer and with everything it gives you, I think it could end up being a great digital value. I need a streamer, NAS and server but LOVE my Empirical Audio DAC.  I will audition this DAC in a few weeks vs my DAC and Melco and Aurender and see which one I like best.  I'll just download my high res music that I"m familiar with and bring it into the store to get started. Then I may take the DAC/Streamer home to see how easy it is and how it sounds in my system.  I"m sure Matt will do the same thing.  I really want to know how it sounds vs my DAC as I can't afford Steven's new one, but Matt will have the new one and can let you all know how it sounds vs that (I'm assuming).  I know how great the Codex sounds in it's price point and I have a lot of Head-fi.org friends I've turned onto it vs the Chord DAC and some others from 3k down (they love the balanced headphone outs) and I'm sure this DAC will be right up there near Steve's and some others in this range.  I was told by someone very familiar with the Berkley Ref DAC as well as most the others on this board (other than Steve's) and was told that this DAC is incredible and betters them all.  I'll believe it when I hear it as so many have new and or upgraded DAC's.  I'm just glad that this is the dawn of some great digital sounds.

I think that with all the new digital being brought out in the past six months going into this summer, it will be changing the landscape.  I've yet to hear the Aethetix Romulus Eclipse but was told that it's a KILLER. Was told by a major manufacturer of speakers that the new Brinkmann Nyqvist is also a killer DAC.  Can't wait to hear first reviews of Steve's new unit.  

That's what I've been thinking Matt I've heard all of them and am impressed. I will wait until fall though with so many new options coming our way in regards to products and user interfaces. I like the Aurender app enough where I don't see the need for Roon. I do wonder how good their A1 will be as they know how to make a good DAC I'm sure. Doubt it will be in the same league as the OSDE though

This thread can keep going for a LONG time and stay relevant with all the new digital coming out.  I am vacillating on going with Aurender N100H or the N10.  Big price difference, but need to hear them side by side and no dealers I know have both set up.  Matt, can't wait for you to get the new OSDE back...

I'm monitoring a couple of the newer DAC's that are about to come to market.  I know some folks who have heard the two I'm looking into and feel there is enough there for me to listen to them.  If I like them, I'll be selling my OSDE/SE, but it's going to really take a lot for that to happen as it's such a tremendous DAC still.  Steve just understands how to filter and clock properly and he uses the best components you can use for audio.  I've heard most of the DAC's in Matt's thread so far and only a few better Steve's and those all cost over 15k.  That's for MY ears and in MY system in MY listening room.  That takes nothing away from other DAC's as they may be more to someone else's liking in their room........you get the point. Thanks. :)

Thanks for the feedback.  Is there a link to the dealer as well as the DAC?  I'm lazy i guess, lol...thanks.

Not to get off track, but do you guys still play vinyl?  I got my Rhea up and working with my Basis TT and Benz Glider cart yesterday.  Cleaned the albums nicely and got the static off.  Honestly, it's still been better than digital by a hair.  I need to get a new server, but I am running Steve's totally rebuilt one with the Paul Hynes power supply and it sounds incredible through the OSDE/SE with the upgrades.  The Vinyl just has a more relaxed presentation and a much larger and better placed sound stage.  It's hard for me to describe.  I love digital though in that I can stream Tidal (once I get a unit to set that up on as I've kept the mac mini off the grid) etc...  On Sunday's I'll probably always listen to vinyl until the wife wakes up and I"ll put on digital to play all day long.

Fully aware of vinyl and it's limitations.  some of the top phono amps take all the equalization curves into play and are adjustable.  I have a top preamp as well as a top DAC or at least very good.  I do love my digital, but Vinyl for some reason is more relaxed.  I do wish I had an equalizer for RECORDINGS, especially 70 and 80's rock.  Just a goose here or a goose there would really help greatly regardless of what the source is.  

I think you made a great post and brought out vinyl problems that most don't usually discuss.  

I have a great digital set up at home, but my vinyl is better in many areas as I've posted.  I know others in this thread who also love their vinyl still. When you clean your records with ultra sound and then vacuum, it usually takes out all the grunge in the grooves as well as the static.  This really isn't a vinyl vs digital, it's about the top digital for redbook.  With the new DAC's/Streamers coming out I think the landscape is changing for the better.  It's a great time to be into audio

Yes it's always is about system matching so I can understand part of your thoughts.  I do find it strange as I have heard vinyl and digital on some incredible systems that were put together with system matching as the key ingredient and vinyl has always sounded a bit more relaxed and as detailed for lack of a better word.  Digital certainly does some things much much better and vinyl does things much much better.  

I honestly believe it's all about what you are used to and how you listen. Some folks have grown up on digital and only know that as a format, while many of us cut our teeth on vinyl.  Listen, I LOVE master tape even better than both, but that's not a realistic format for me and my money, lol....

I think that digital is finally catching up to vinyl in it's overall presentation, but it's very expensive for digital to do it still. I can take a 1k TT rig and that includes a MM cartridge and is blows the doors off even the Codex, which IMHO is the best sounding (to my ears as well as many others I speak with) under 3k DAC (it's around 1500 I believe).  

I see the merit in both and have  a lot of money tied up in both, but will only buy some used records and won't spend anymore on my TT rig.  I will however be selling off my OSDE/SE soon as well as my music server that Steven sold to me in order to do some major upgrades in digital.  I'm still not 100% on selling the OSDE as it is still one of the best DACs I've heard under 13k which seems to be the new standard of entry into the top DAC's going.  I"m waiting  for the new Ayre QX-5 as I was told by a couple of folks who have extensive time with it that it's priced to be the killer DAC in the marketplace.  The chips should be in house for real production by the beginning of August I believe.  I also use headphones on weekend mornings and it has a nice amp as well as a streamer so all you need is a NAS or hard drive filled with songs to play.  It also has a Roon endpoint so I guess you can use your iPad and Roon as your app. Learning a ton and this thread is amazing.  Thanks again Matt.  Greatly appreciated.  

Marc, I totally agree with you. So often people scoff at budget gear, but there's a market for them, because you can hear a nice difference. Honestly, I have an old Krell Stealth Dac that I'm putting into my system tomorrow.  It doesn't have USB, but it had balanced, two coax and a couple or so optical.  I've had it in the system before and it's really nice for an older piece. I'm about to place it up for sale as some folks just love Krell pieces, but I've heard a ton of DAC's from 1500 down that are really nice sounding.  Incremental upgrades are what audio is all about.  Then you have to figure out where you have to jump off the train.  

The Mini that I have was totally rebuilt by Steve himself as it was his old server he used at shows.  I has it's limit, but with the Hynes regulated power supply and all the mods he did, it's not like any mini I've ever heard.  I'm about to purchase the Melco to use only as a NAS eventually.  As I think I've posted, this is the unit that the Ayre folks use with their QX-5/Twenty.  Even if I don't get the new Ayre, the Melco will be a great NAS and can be used as the streamer/server also.  With the new update to the Melco, you can easily rip to it also and I know they are even working on an optical drive of their own that will just rip quickly and easily with dbpoweramp.  

What are you talking about Erik?  What point?  Proves nothing other than I am upgrading again as I have been planing for ages.  The digital system I have/selling is awesome and worthy to be in the highest of systems.  I already miss the darn thing.  The DCS, Trinity and Berk Ref are the only other DAC's I've personally heard enough of to like better than the OSDE/SE.  As for the Mac Mini, it sounds nothing like other servers I've heard.  I do feel some of them are better, but they are also in another price range totally. I'm not sure the N10H sound better.  Different, but not sure it's better.  That's nearly 3k for the server.  I do know the ones lower I don't like.  I hope that servers that are new and much more costly sound better.  If not, there's a problem.  If you want to try and read into my mind and come up with something that isn't true to let you prove a point, go ahead.  Very strange response, but I'm not here to fight.  I'm sure that you are correct in all your assumptions Erik. Still don't understand the second part of your post and I had someone contact me off board to ask what you meant in your post.  Congrats on waiting to get something for nothing.  I'm glad you love your system.  That's what audio is all about. :)

Erik you read something into my comments that I never said. I was planning to get this Ayre with a Melco when I purchased thEmpirical as I've know. All about it for a bit. What Steve did to my mini server has it sounding outstanding. I'd have kept them both and been very happy. If sharing that I never said what you said I did is attitude so be it I guess. L was laughing the whole time typing Erik. Upgrading doesn't mean that you need better sound it can also mean you love what you have but can afford what you ultimately want. How many in this thread love to upgrade when they can afford it?  

I just shared that you were totally incorrect trying to reason why I'm making moves. I know a few others reading this thread who are laughing too. Not taking it as seriously as you may believe. 

Thanks so much for the post and the help.  I sold my OSDE knowing the QX-5/Twenty is out as well as Steve's new DAC.  I may be able to afford his new DAC if something comes through this next week or so, and that's now on the table.  I'll be getting the Melco to use as a NAS for the Ayre or if I get the OSDX it will also become the server.  If I don't do the Melco, I'll be getting the new QNAP 471 NAS as it's powerful enough to install an SSD in one slot and run Roon which I want.  Either of these set ups allow me to run an all Ethernet connection, but I realized that my house was never wired for Ethernet.  

Ketch, I guess I have two questions:
1. can I guy the Apple Time Machine as my router connected to the Comcast modem and then use the Apple Extreme I think they call it, to use Ethernet connections for all of this?

2. You mention the type of Ethernet connection.  You said:  The Ethernet has galvanic isolation. I will test to see if Giso (galvanic isolator) or Waversa Smarthub (LiPo Powered, ethernet re-clocker/filter audiophile switch) have any sonic improvement and report back.

Are these built into Steve's unit or are these something my Ethernet cords will be connected to and then that connects to the DAC?  

Thanks.  Learning so much about digital lately that it's scary, lol. 

Still the best thread on the net for digital audio!!

Thanks for sharing Matt.  I knew how busy you have been and feel badly but you are doing special work for others and that's commendable in a BIG WAY.

I too in recent days have been talked into Ethernet with Roon and possibly HQPlayer.  Not to hijack, but would love to know others thought of HQPlayer also as it's ultimate digital.  

Matt, I have decided (well 90%) to set up a QNAP 471 NAS.  It has the set up on the QNAP site.  The first slot as I said above if for the SSD that runs Roon.  Bay 2 and 3 are for the 6TB storage run in Raid 1. The 4th bay is to be set up to automatically do a weekly back up of the 6TB WD green or red hard drives.  That will all be set up in the room that has the router and then I'll figure out how to install a run directly to the stereo system or I'll do the wireless set up with the Apply extreme deal like I've seen in so many high end audio stores. If someone else has a better idea many of us are more than willing to listen.  Thanks. 

I liked the Trinity when I heard it, but honestly, it didn't blow me away as some of the higher price DAC's have.  JMHO, but I have a friend who had one last year and sold it.  Not even sure what he's running now, but it may the the full DCS stack as he was going on and on about how much he liked it.  

Ketch, thanks so much for those links. Time for me to start learnin bout new wave digital again....thought I had been doing this over the last two years, but I guess not enough, lol.  

Ketch, that thread is a bear for a novice like me.  I don't fully understand what an optical network is and why I need it.  I don't have any ethernet cable runs in the townhouse. My main system is on the second floor and my bedroom system is on the first floor.  I have a full basement where I'm wanting Comcast (when I get it installed next month or so) to bring everything into the basement as the coax runs are all set up there going to each room in the house. I will most probable have the Comcast modem and router (most likely Apple Time Machine) running in one of the upstairs bedrooms as that will be my hub as the noise won't affect my listening room.  I was hoping to just install the new QNAP 471 NAS with the router and use the Airport Extreme from both systems to the NAS that would host Roon and hopefully HQPlayer.  

I was told that Roon will help the sound quality vs using a local drive (i.e. Aurender or Melco) directly to the DAC and not worrying about my second system as it already streams Tidal so I don't care if it's on a network or not.  I can afford the N100H and possibly even a used N10 Aurender.  The problem is that it won't be Roon and if it's the N100h, I believe it would have to the a usb connection.

If I only care about sq first and I only really need to have my main system being fed, what are your personal thoughts as to which products I should be looking at and how should I set them up?  

Right now I'm seem to have a Melco N1A running as a NAS only (Roon is working hard on trying to get their core to run on the Melco's OS) and then a NUC for Roon and HQPlayer, or an Aureneder directly into the DAC or getting the Qnap and setting it up the way they say to run Roon off of it.  

Anything I've missed so far?  Any thoughts are appreciated.  Matt, what set up are you looking at doing?

Ketch, I wasn't able to send a PM.  Didn't see how. Matt is sending my phone and email. Thanks. Looking forward.

I've heard the DCS stacks a few times in various systems.  They were very very good. I liked the Trinity a lot when I've heard it.  Better than the Berk Ref for me by a fair amount, but the system I heard it in was exceptional and set up properly in a great room.  Heard DAVE in the city and it was good, but I hated the speakers (over 100k I think) and that ruined it, but I could tell the DAC was very good and a top contender.  Can't wait for the AyreQX5/twenty, but that's still only their mid level so I'll take that into consideration.  I'm expecting a lot, but I can't see it in the same ball park as the OSDX.  I should have just kept the OSDE and begged Steve to do the upgrade for me, lol.  Didnt' think he would.  Live and learn.

Actually mtruong, it's ODSX.  That's the name of Steve's newest DAC.  Yes, I transposed two of the letters.  sorry about that.

I"ll get the Ayre, but there is a short list of DAC's I'm going to want to try and listen to before I decide to keep it.  Most will have to be used for me to afford, but with the every evolving world of digital, that shouldn't be a problem.  Bricasti's, the new ODSX, EMM, Ayre's 5 series and a few others that are also from small companies like Steve's.  There really are so many great options right now.  Dealers can no longer afford to just carry a DAC line because they have the amp line. I really feel that they will need to carry three high end DAC's and a few more of the mid priced ones.  That's not to say that analog is dead or anything like that.  I still love putting on a record, but my money goes into digital right now and used records that I can usually get for under $2.

jwm, what your post for me?  If so, I buy at dealers nearly all the time.  Every now and then I will purchase used when I know who has the products I want and can't afford otherwise.  I fully support local dealers.  I do agree that the used market has really hurt the dealer networks.

The review on Audio Stream today is a must read folks.  All about some of the posters here using optical runs, converters etc....  Had a great convo with Steve tonight and can't wait for some of you guys to start getting thoughts to keyboard on the ODSX run in ethernet mode.  Matt must be drooling about now waiting for his, lol....

Who will be at Audio Connections in Verona, NJ next Saturday the 30th for the Northeast premier of the Ayre QX5/Twenty Digital front end/DAC? They will set it up with the Vandersteen 7 mk 2 and the Ayre ref gear. Everyone is invited. Johnny Rutan who owns the place has been mentioned in the last two Stereophile articles on Jazz musicians and their systems. Just spoke to Billy Drummand who is the jazz drummer they wrote about last month will try to be there for a bit. let me know if you can make it. If so, I'm the one using a rollator (walker with wheels). Please stop by and say hello. I have the QX5 on order and can't wait. Alex from Ayre will be there to show off his new DAC. Can't wait. hope to see folks there.

Just post here if you can or may make it.

I'm hoping that Alex from Ayre will be bringing his Melco N1A NAS with him.  It will be interesting to listen to this brand new DAC, that just started to ship to dealers this week.  I'd love to meet a bunch of you guys so let me know if you can make it. Pete
 

Single box better???  No, not at all.  My Empirical Audio and server sounded much better than any one box I've ever heard.  I'll be very honest right now and I know I'm not the only one who feels this year, but I like the sound of the Empirical with my current server better than the DCS Rossini. I'm not a DCS fan, but I'm familiar with many of the CD players or CD players with digital inputs and none of them have sounded as good as many of the DAC's I've heard.  The Krell was out in 2012 and maybe earlier.  It's very dated right now.  The Ayre QX5 is using a chip that hasn't even been fully released to others yet and it got custom filters just for Ayre.  The ODSE/SE I just sold is unreal and the soon to be released ODSX will be THAT much better I'm sure.  Bricasti M1 SE is also updated and outstanding.  There are way too many great sounding DAC's in all price ranges.  As for servers, there are the custom made ones that fix all the problems that CD players have had. Sorry, just can't buy into a CD player right now.

BTW, I have heard that Krell on many occasions and never was able to warm up to it, but that's my ear.  I'm happy that you love it and will never want for any other digital again.

Dave, I get it, I really do, but when did I ever mention cables that cost that much?  Also, this whole thread is about the BEST sounding redbook DAC not which 12k CD player is nice.  As for detail, you have to have detail and it needs to be delivered in proper time in order to get the best sound. Again, that's the whole premise of the thread.  I was and am not trying to be snarky in any way.  I appreciate great sounding systems that aren't costly, but you referenced a 12CD player that is 3k more than my new Ayre QX5 and it doesn't do nearly as much.  

I had two posters here ask me what your post meant and what you are trying to say. I'm not sure I know either. not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand your point in context to what Matt has been posting about.  Thanks.

Dave that's cool. It's all good. This thread has a life of its own anyways and we r waiting on Matt and a few of us who are waiting on new or upgrades DACs to discuss lol. 

Guys, the show at Audio connections on Sat was a ton of fun.  Michael from Audiostream showed up and we spoke most of the day (sorry Michael, lol).  Alex from Ayre showed off the QX5 and Roon. First time for each for me. I really enjoyed Roon and will incorporate it into my new digital set up I'm thinking.  Ketch, we NEED to speak, lol.

No true impressions of the QX since it only had 30 hours on it at best. It DID warm up and by 6pm is was sounding surprisingly good for that few hours on it.  I was enjoying the music, where earlier in the day I couldn't listen. This is WHY you can't judge gear until it's fully broken in.  I heard the bones of this thing though and I can tell that it's a winner that punches well above it's price of 9k.  Ten digital inputs of every type.  Streamer built in and easy to set up and use.  I honestly like that, plus it's a good looking unit that is built in true Ayre fashion.  Flawless construction and solid throughout.  I got to spend a ton of time with Alex Brinkmann as we all went out to eat afterwards too.  A really fun day.

Alex spoke about the special digital and analog filtering they are able to do by working with ESS on the DAC.  The unit implements their new double diamond analog stage as well as double filtering of the RF on the incoming power.  The unit has a very very low noise floor and they have optimized each of the ten inputs.  Even the satellite TV will sound better according to Alex and I have no reason to not believe him.  He's very open and honest about his gear.  Even the weaknesses of some pieces.  he likes to get feedback so they can keep engineering better products and improve what they have.  I was very impressed as you can all tell.

The sound of the headphone single ended jack with 0 hours breaking was balanced as heck.  It's basically the award winning Codex headphone amp with the best parts Ayre could find. With the money to play with for the headphone jack, they decided to make a world class headphone amp that has both balanced as well as 1/4" and 3.5mm single ended inputs.  Those of you who own a source and DAC/headphone amp will LOVE this piece.  I think it could become one of THOSE DACS as it will be an all in one piece for your personal audio system.  You can just stream Tidal or Qbuz (however it's spelled) and call it a day with a pair of LCD3/4's or Hifiman 1000's or the new Focal Utopias.

I can't wait to get mine and break it in.  Just wanted to share what I have for now.  Color me duly impressed so far.

Ketch, thanks so much.  I'm not surprised at all.  The OSDE/SE is such an exceptional DAC to begin with.  Steven shared some of the upgrades he did and who time consuming they are.  It's a labor of love, that's for sure.  For those who want to get finally jump on board, getting an upgraded OSDX used is awesome as you can save a few dollars and enjoy a GREAT sounding DAC.  Very cool.

I have run a few DAC's in my system and have owned the OSDE/SE.  I use a turntable still, so I need a preamp, but I, like most, wanted to hear the differences.  I have never chosen driving directly.  I lose a bit of dynamics and the sound staging can lose a bit of coherency.  

I use an Ayre AX-5/Twenty and the pre on that thing is nearly as good as the KX-R/Twenty.  I like the preamp in my system still. If someone is chasing between a preamp or running directly, I think that the consensus is a pre will sound better, but if you take that extra 10k for a pre (just throwing out a number) and throw that at a better DAC like the OSDX and Final Drives, you will never even know the difference and you will have a much better sounding system than using say the ODSE/SE with that great pre.  

That way you can get a preamp later one and upgrade the sound even more.  

So many ways to go and so many great DAC's on the market right now.  We all hear differently and this thread really shows that.  Thanks for everyone's input.  It's been a wonderful guide for many of us and is appreciated.

lxgreen, I'm sure the Yggy is a nice DAC, but you really need to go out and listen to the DAC's being discussed in this thread before making the statement that nothing will beat the Schitt at any price.  Sorry, but there are many in this thread alone that clobber the Schitt DAC.  Honestly, I have heard it in the same system at the same time as the Ayre Codex for 1800 and the Codex was the winner to every one of us in the store and that included the owner who bought the Codex.  I can promise you that the Empirical Audio DAC's are in a different league. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you need to go listen to other DAC's in order to make that statement I think.  It's all good.  Glad that you love your DAC and steamer though.  That's awesome.

heard the whole line of CH gear up in NH and I hated it.  I don't love Wilson's to begin with, but they were the worst match up that's for sure.  

I am loving the QX5.  Have heard it a couple of times now and am waiting on mine.  I did hear the optical conversion that we are all talking about in Tampa last week. It was only on the Codex using Audeze LCD 2's and the EL8's (not my favorite can, lol) and also my Noble Savant's (the most neutral IEM/can I've heard to date, but not a bass head IEM, lol) and the sound was outstanding.  I was so impressed with this connection.  It used a hand made LPS (not as good as Empirical's I'm sure) on the end switch and I was blown away at how quiet it was.  It just sounded right.  

I think that like anything else, ti's all about sending the best signal to the DAC or preamp.  Matt started this thread with concern only about redbook.  Of course we are all over the place, but it's still about finding out the top DAC (for Matt) for redbook.  I feel strongly that the Ayre QX-5 needs to be put into the mix with Steven's new OSDX (based on the thoughts on one of you feeling it's the best DAC you've had in your system and you've had some of the best as well as most expensive).  I think based on your hearing, there are probably only a select few that are the 'best sounding DAC for Redbook'.  

My take away from this thread is:

1. Best Redbook DAC
2. Best server/streamer solution going into 'this' DAC
3. Best connection for the server/streamer
4. Best software for YOUR DAC/Server solution as all are different

What have I missed other than cabling and power cords and wood blocks as feet vs anything else as feet, lol.

Looks like digital is really coming of age. So many great products out or coming-out.  The irony is that some companies are offering outstanding products, but are working on ref gear that isn't even out yet.  It's almost the opposite of releasing your ref gear first and doing the trickle down effect.  Seems like companies are working out the bugs etc.. on moderately priced gear and then upping the ante.  We all win either way.

I agree with Charles. I have heard those two side by side at a store when a customer was in with the Schitt to hear the differences. I listened via the Audeze LCD-3's, which I enjoy and know well.  I found the Codex to be more accurate, better staging and imaging.  I feel that listening with can's give you a great idea of detail, both micro and macro, but not as good at sound staging.  I'm very very surprised the Codex got so hot.  I'm in shock actually.  Did you ask the dealer about this?  I've used the Codex well in excess of 20 times at many dealers as well as in friends systems. I have many who own one and not one have said they run THAT hot.  Not taking anything away from the Schitt as I know there are many who love the company.  I always enjoyed their designers products when they were with their other companies years ago, so again not taking anything away from them.  To my ears the Codex is the best under 5k or so DAC I've listened to and I"ve heard many of them out here.  Again, JMHO and that's why there are so many companies who are making equipment.  We all listen for different things and all equipment reacts differently with other gear.  How many times have we listened to something and loved it, but got it in our systems and it just didn't work?  

This is why Matt always talks about what's in HIS system when he reviews for everyone. There have been so many DAC's sold because of this thread and they aren't all Empirical as Matt has loved (I bought one and loved it).  

Thanks Ketch.   I so appreciate your thoughts and respect what you have to share.  I'm not surprised in the least as Steve makes a great DAC.   I still need to speak with you about my ethernet system I need to set up.  I'm in the hospital for the next week or so, if you have time....just let me know.  Thanks.

has this thread finally had it's last gasps?  I hope not as it's been a great thread and helped many of us out.  I finally have my Ayre QX5 Twenty DAC fully burned in and it's sounding incredible.  I'm hearing things I haven't heard before and the bass is to dye for.  I'm surprised by the last remark as zero feedback designs will give you glorious music from 100hz up, but the deep bass doesn't always go as deep as you want it to.  That's one reason I love the Vandersteen line from Quatro up as it gives you great bass and I can get the glorious sound of the Ayre and have it all.  I also love the headphone amp on this model as I still use cans.  I'm still serving music from Steve's server I got from him and it sounds awesome. I will probably sell this also though as I want an easier solution for larger storage, ability to use an iPad to control it and also to use Roon, but if I don't find what I want, I may just figure out if I can do all of that this this server.

LOL,, of course Matt.  Call if you have some time tomorrow. I have to take the wife to Brooklyn for an all day seminar and then to LaGuardia. I"ll drop her off around 9:30 and then head to the city to see what shops are open.  I haven't really been to the shops in the city in awhile.  Not even sure where to go.  Was thinking about Innovation as I have never been there.