The PS Audio DirectStream has just been reviewed by Marja & Henk of 6Moons.
"With its great sound quality and versatile usefulness, the DirectStream DAC from PS Audio offers the best way we’ve yet encountered to convert ‘digital’ music into real music. "
At first an impressive statement. But without a full list of the previous DAC's they have reviewed, not a very useful one… They did like it quite a bit though. Everyone seams to like it very much. hummmmmm……. |
All in my house with same gear, same cables, same rack, whatever feet are provided and placed by the manufacturer, same power, same ears...
My intention is to help define the differences between DAC's (in an identical environment)more then to say one is better or worse for you then another. We all value different sonic attributes and like different gear.
Thanks, TBG, for your input. That anecdote about the double blind study you reported proves that at the end of the day, there is no better way to determine if a unit is best for you then to take it home and use it in your system. |
Ozzy - Advertising revenue?? You mean I can make money doing this????? LOL!!!!
Agear - The only double blind study my 6 year old would happily participate in would be to determine if, in fact, different color gummy bears actually taste differently. But, seriously, your point is well taken. I'm not a professional reviewer nor do I claim to be. I'm just having fun both listening and reporting my findings. A few well placed acoustic treatments in my WAF restricted listening room/shared office would unquestionably make way more difference then putting another few grand into a better DAC; but that's not going to happen in a room that she's in more then I am... |
Thank you Hifial. That is very generous of you. I am sure Merrill will re-offer after the firmware upgrade. I just need to be patient.
Hopefully I will have some time tomorrow morning. |
Kana - yes, I saw that. Thank you.
I currently have the Lampizator Big6 (which is actually sold, just waiting for check to clear), Aeris, EA OverDrive, Meitner MA-1 and my old PSA PW2 in my room. The DirectStream is arriving Monday and the Aesthetix Romulus is incoming whenever it's ready and available. I will try to find a dealer who would lend me a well burned in Alpha Ref. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. I'm happy to listen if you, or anyone else, can arrange getting one to me.
I'm doing my best, but since I try to REALLY listen to each unit, each comparison takes a LOT of time. My current protocol is to listen to my 33 song playlist on each of 2 DAC's; and then repeat the same thing a few days later, listening to the other 1 one first. It works but I may try to cut down my listening list to 15 if I can.... I sometimes only listen to portions of a song, but if it sucks me in........ |
Ok. I just went through my playlist and cut down to 23 songs. I think that will be more manageable. I tried to remove more, but I want a broad selection of genres and I need one or 2 really well and really badly recorded pieces to see how the DAC handles those.
Thank you, Kana, for motivating me to do that!! |
UPDATE:
Merrill of Merrill Audio was kind enough to lend me his Meitner MA-1 DAC. I picked it up this morning. It is well burned in and ready for a good listen, which I will do tomorrow morning if I can.
My PS Audio DirectStream has been shipped (I guess they decided not to burn it in for me afterall, or forgot).
Merrill and his friends did an interested shootout of their own, resulting in him choosing the MA-1 as his reference DAC. That shootout can be found here:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14193-A-Small-Dac-East-Coast-Style-shootout&highlight=shootout
It's a good read. |
UPDATE:
Yay! I finally had a visitor to help with my auditioning. Merrill of Merrill Audio joined me for the Meitner MA1 comparison.
He pointed out something that I mentioned in my Virtual System and Agear touched on many pages back, but MUST be reiterated. My room is NOT the ideal acoustic environment. There are a lot of reflective surfaces and an audible slap echo. At his urging, I am going to broach the idea with my Wife of maybe some subtle acoustic treatments to improve on the room a bit. Don't get me wrong, its not horrific, but it is evident. The system still sounds stunning, but could certainly sound better with some treatments. Since the room is on the bright side, my decision as to synergy and what sounds best in my room are certainly affected by these factors. Just an FYI in an effort to be totally open.
I invited him to join this thread to give his own opinions. He uses Sanders electrostats driven by all his own gear, and his MA1. His system sounds wonderful, but totally different from mine….
OK. The Meitner….
The MA1 is the definition of everything you need and NOTHING you don't. It is an industrial, very meticulously built box with simple front input selection and some red lights to show what sampling rate is playing. Obviously built with thought in mind, but no interest in making it fancy or physically enticing in any way. It is solid and very well constructed, clearly with thoughts of vibration dampening and shielding. It's goal is to sound good. The back is well laid out and designed. With a standard footprint, there is plenty of room in back. The PC socket was a teeny weeny bit wiggly, which surprised me. And the power switch was just above the PC connector, and was partially buried with my bigger Shunyata plug. If Lampy started to make all metal housings, I would expect them to look very similar.
It linked right up with the Mac as the others have. Asynchronous is a beautiful thing! It does do DSD and all things PCM.
Sound - The MA1 brings everything up front and personal. Very accurate, very meticulous and extended up top. The lower end didn't go down as low as the ODSE, but it controlled what it had a tad better. I find the bass response of the ODSE to be quite pleasing and natural. It's sort of like it has a loose grip on the snake to prevent it from getting out of hand as opposed to locking the snake in a vise and forcing it to move the way you want it to. Soundstage was not as 3 dimensional as the ODSE in any of the 3 planes, but imaging was laser point accurate. The ODSE is a bit more laid back (which to me was more pleasing) while the MA1 hands you everything on a silver platter. The MA1 has dynamics to spare and can handle those transients very well. The ODSE can as well, but it is not as lightning quick as the MA1. The notes are there and the music is there, but the MA1 didn't get my toes tapping the way the ODSE did.
To be frank, I unquestionably preferred the ODSE over the MA1 on every track on my list. I found it more engaging, more emotional and more musical.
Merrill felt that the MA1 was more accurate and more revealing, which are qualities he obviously values along with those flat plane electrostats. He also appreciated the grip that the MA1 had on the lower frequencies, and preferred that to the slightly less grip but lower extension of the ODSE. I will let him add any other points if he joins us on this thread. He said that one of the things the MA1 update will provide is better low frequency extension.
Merrill said that, in my room, he would chose the ODSE over the MA1. In his system and his room he thinks he would prefer the MA1. I think I would still prefer the ODSE, it's just more my taste.
We did connect the Aeris, now with about 280-290 hours on it. I feel the same way about it; it has potential and is getting closer, but is still young. It's wonderful, layered, goes deep and holds on tight, sound stages well and just makes music. Merrill didn't say it, but I think he didn't like it. He acknowledged that listening before its fully burned in is not fair and agreed that another 300-400 hours could make a huge difference. It sounds like an excuse, but I just don't want to pass judgement until its got at least 700 hours on it. I can hear and feel that there's something special there, waiting to emerge when it breaks from it's cocoon. Merrill felt that for the money, and in my room, the ODSE was the best choice of the 3. Currently, I agree. I think he was impressed by the ODSE. I know I am.
In a tube systen, I would have chosen the MA1 over the ODSE. Especially with tube amp AND pre-amp. But in my room the MA1 goes and the ODSE survives to fight another day.
Steve has agreed to let me hold onto the ODSE until the Aeris has 700+ hours on it, which is very generous.
Merrill took his MA1 back. He will update it when the update comes out and let me know if he thinks the change is worthwhile bringing it back for a second try.
Merrill LOVED my speakers and how they sound with his amplifiers. He didn't say it, but I think he was surprised at how transparent the Criterion pre-amp was compared to other Rowland pre-amps, which have more of the Rowland house sound. The Criterion is truly a musical window to the upstream and downstream gear. To be honest, its the first time I had anyone with a trained ear listen to my system (besides me) and I was very nervous!!!
Erik - I promise I will put at least 2 weeks on the DS before I try her out. That will be about 336 hours. I need to find another way to burn it in though, because I don't want to lose time burning in the Aeris while cooking the PS Audio. That's why I was happy to hear PS Audio was willing to burn it in before they sent it to me. Oh well…. Necessity is the mother of invention!
'fin |
Lol. I was actually going to break out the Final Drives today but Merrill came over.
With the Aeris 400h away from ready and the DirectStream also 2 weeks minimum from ready (after it arrives Tuesday), the next thing up is a comparison of DAC direct to amps vs using the Final Drives.
Watch for the next UPDATE.
Thanks for the room treatment suggestions. I have to see what the boss will approve, if anything. |
Happy Fathers Day to all you Dads!!
May your day be filled with wonderful family and beautiful music!! |
My Criterion and the Aeris are far from dark. The Criterion is toneless. The Capri S2 has a bit of a dark tinge, but the Criterion is not remotely dark, nor is the Aeris. In fact, the Aeris is currently a bit bright if anything. I just don't want your statement to confuse the readers. The Aeris and Criterion are not the old Rowland house sound.
That said, of course my room acoustics are going to have an affect on the sound and my equipment selection. That's why I felt it necessary to describe the room. It's not over the top bright though.
I will try to run direct Wed and report my findings. The Direct Stream is due in tomorrow. I will report first impressions of that as well if I have time. |
AGear - Thank you for your input. I am, by no means, a professional reviewer and appreciate your six moons quote as it better describes the MA1 in a more objective description then my own. If you could maybe provide some links to professional reviews for the gear I am auditioning it would be appreciated and helpful to the group at large. I have neither the trained ears, acoustically corrected room, expansive vocabulary nor elocution to properly review gear in the objective manor in which the pros can do it.
As I said when I started, I am simply saying it like I hear it with no bias other then what sounds best to me, in my room, with my ears. What I heard from the MA1 lacked emotion as compared to the Aeris and OverDrive. It did not engage me the way the other 2 did; I spent more time analyzing and less time lost in the music. To me it was not simply a matter of bright or dark, nor analytical vs slurred. I think in a different system and a different room it would shine, but not mine. I would also imagine that for a reviewer it would be an ideal DAC as it is miraculously accurate in both it's soundstage, imaging and reproduction of tone.
My apologies to all for the limitations in my room, my ears and my ability to objectively convey what I hear with the gifts of a reviewer. As Popeye said, " I ams what I ams...."
But I'm getting closer to my objective and having a damn good time doing it, and talking with some really good audio guys along the way like my new friend AGear, Charles1dad, Merrill, Audiolabyrnth, Steve, Guido and 2 dozen other guys. Isn't Tay what it's really all about? |
AGear. I'm not sure why you say that.
I actually just emailed Guido and told him that his prized Aeris better turn a corner in the next 300 burn-in hours or I'm keeping the ODSE (or DirectStream if it blows me away). I have absolutely no bias towards one or the other. Just looking for the best of the best. |
On a side note, I have to say I am stunned no one has scooped up my Rowland Capri S2 pre-amp with PC1 power supply I have for sale. I used it until the Criterion came in. It is a stunning pre-amp and is a steal for the price I am asking. I can't think of a pre-amp for close to its money that can give the music the way the S2/pc1 can; it's that good!
If anyone knows of someone looking for a killer reasonably priced pre-amp, send them my way. I want it to go to a good home! |
UPDATE: (SORT OF)
My apologies to all, but my day to play turned into a day to work.
So my update is limited.
I did try to run the ODSE via the Final Drive direct to my amps and I seam to have run into a snag. I am trying to work through it with Steve, who has been very responsive.
I can say that the Final Drive units are built to the same standards and style as the ODSE. Very industrial, very well built and a quality product all around. I can't decide where to put them though. Should they go on the rack next to or behind the ODSE, on the ground between rack and amps or should I set them atop the mono blocks? When I set it up, the cables seated snugly and were stable. I have decided that the only thing I am not in love with on the ODSE control unit, from a functional standpoint, are the recessed toggles; the purpose for which is to adjust high/low gain and to turn on/off the volume control. I understand that they are essentially set it and forget it. But they are difficult to get to and I think they would have been better placed under the unit as easier sliding switches then on the front as recessed toggles (and I think it would clean the front panel up a bit more and make it more attractive).
My Direct Stream arrived today (no one was home yesterday to accept it). It is sitting in its box on my floor currently.
My hope is that, if it stays quiet tomorrow morning, I will have time to run the ODSE direct via Final Drive and compare it to running through my pre-amp. I also will take another listen to the Aeris as it is now about 400 hours (give or take) on it. I will not make a final call on the Aeris until it is over 700; so I still have 300 hours to put on it (12.5 days).
I'm going to unpack the DirectStream right now and check it out, although I don't really expect it to look at all different from the Perfect Wave II sitting 2 feet to its left.
Sorry I don't have more to report. My intentions for today were high. Sigh.
And thanks all for the kind words. We must be doing something fun, because this thread has over 22 thousand views. Thats pretty cool I think!!!
I will post again tomorrow if I can get some Matt time.
fin |
The person who starts the thread sees the view count.
Go to your home page and then select Forum Threads on bottom left. If you started the thread or have a Virtual System it shows you a view count. |
Albert Porter's Virtual System has 68 pages, 3389 posts, no idea how many views but I would imagine its in the hundreds of thousands…. Not really important, just interesting to note. |
UPDATE:
First off, I ran the ODSE direct to my amps using the Final Drives. ODSE set with the recessed switches to activate the volume control and adjust the output to match amplifier direct. Wired - ODSE XLR out to Final Drive XLR in (all gains on the FD set to 0db) and FD XLR out to Merrill Veritas XLR in. Everything was set properly (confirmed with Steve) but even with the volume control knob activated and on its most counter-clockwise position (supposed to be zero output) I was still getting a decent amount of volume through the speakers; moderate listening level I would say. Loud enough to hear from 2 rooms away with all doors open, but soft enough to have a conversation in the room. The volume knob did make the music louder when rotated clockwise, so it was clearly activated and functioning. I contacted Steve several times and he was always responsive and helpful. To be honest, I'm not sure whats going on.
I turned the volume knob up to about 9 o'clock on the ODSE (which set a reasonably loud listening level equivalent to my normal level) and sat down for a listening session with the attitude that, although the volume compatibility issue was confusing I was not causing any damage to anything and when set to the proper listening level it would still represent the sound as it normally would for a ODSE/FD direct to amp set up.
Without going into detail, I preferred running the music through my pre-amplifier. It sounded very very good without the pre-amp and I think that it would probably best most inexpensive pre-amps. But I have now run several DAC's direct and I always prefer the sound when running through a pre-amp. In all honesty, I was heavily jaded in the direction of wanting to like the FD as it would have given me the ability to sell my $$$$$ pre-amp and redirect that money elsewhere. Alas, I still need my trusty Criterion.
I welcome Steve to chime in here, as I can't say for sure that I am giving the ODSE/FD direct to amp a proper audition with the strange volume issue. It may sound better if the volume incompatibility issue was resolved. But logically, as nothing sounded overdriven I assumed the volume pot is misaligned or the DAC provided a bit too much gain, or I have no idea and I'm just making it up as I go…. lol. I just want to be fair and not misrepresent Steve's products.
I can say that the ODSE still sounds fantastic running through my pre-amp and sucks me into that happy place moments after I start listening.
Next was my 400-420 hour listen of the Rowland Aeris. OK, let me restate that; I didn't listen for 400 hours, I listened AFTER is has been running for 400 hours… hehe. Burn in appears to have a rather dramatic effect on the Aeris as I have read and been told. With 400+ hours on it, the Aeris is losing it's brighter highlights and becoming increasingly complex in its presentation. The bass has actually become a bit less controlled, which is weird but I have heard that the highs and lows waver until it stabilizes at 700+ hours. Its soundstage is truly opening up and becoming more vast and more accurate in its image placement. At 400 hours I am, however, starting to define some consistencies in its voice. It presents a complexity to the music that no other DAC I have heard offers. What I can't tell is whether it is pulling things out that others can not, or creating artifact where none truly exists. For now, I will tuck it away and continue to burn it in for it's final 280'ish hours and run a final comparison.
At this moment in time, I am STILL enjoying the absolutely beguiling ODSE. It does not have the complexity of the Aeris, nor the masterful recreation of tone and texture that the Aeris is starting to display. The Aeris will, when fully broken in, clearly control lower frequencies more definitively and have a wonderful, expansive soundstage. But the ODSE is a black hole - you can't turn it on and start listening and not get sucked in. It's like getting hugged by the right girl, you don't feel the arms or the body or the breath on your neck (although they are all there and rather enjoyable), you just close your eyes and sink into the utter magic of the moment. IF the Aeris blossoms and develops this quality, then it will be the best DAC I have ever heard. Guido, Csmsart, and many others are telling me it will. We shall see…..
FINALLY - many have been waiting for the arrival of the PS Audio Direct Stream. Well it has arrives and here we go….
Build and appearance - It is, pretty much, the identical unit to the PerfectWave II. The only perceivable different, other then the different name silkscreened on the front, is that the PW2 has a flat rectangular light next tot the touchscreen and the DS has a round light. Other then that, they are the same. the touchscreen itself has a simpler layout and way less options. It identifies input (PCM or DSD) and resolution of the input. The touchscreen is very responsive and the entire unit is crafted to very high standards with exceptional parts and build quality throughout. The back is well laid out. The power switch is far enough away from the PC slot to allow use of thick, aftermarket cables (like the Shunyata Zitron Alpha digital) and the USB and XLR connectors were solid and secure. I chose silver and it looks very nice. It is heavy and feels like a proper high end kit.
Upon plugging it in, the USB was immediately identified and it started playing music without issue or incident. I left the volume output on the DS at 100% and thats where it will stay. I may try running it direct to amp if I decide to keep it, otherwise I will do the entire audition running it through my Criterion using the same exact XLR and USB cables I have been using all along.
First impressions - I know everyone is telling me to burn it in for 500 hours (20 days). I will start that process asap. I did set it up and listen as I am very curious. After doing this with the Aeris, I know that first impressions are essentially worthless. My first reaction was that I didn't hear anything that I was missing when listening through my other DAC's. The hype suggested that I will hear magic that doesn't exist with any other DAC. Well, not yet…. My second reaction was that this DAC will be much better then the PW2, even out of the box that is obvious. It definitely has potential and can rub elbows with the other DAC's I am playing with. Other then that, it was too warm in the mids, bright up top and utterly misguided on the low end. It sounded as if I had a layer of plastic wrap around my head (which I almost wished I did at some points). BUT, as I said, it is brand new and needs many many hours of break in.
I will admit that I am skeptical of the Direct Stream competing favorably with the ODSE or the Aeris as the later two are SO good! The DS is $6K retail. The Aeris is almost $10K retail, and the ODSE is about $7500- retail without Steve's occasional show discounts. But Steve doesn't need to mark up the ODSE to cover advertising/marketing costs which add a LOT to the PS Audio and Rowland kits. I would imagine the ODSE would be about $10K retail if he was a bigger firm and had the marketing/advertising overhead that the big guys spend…
I will keep an open mind though, I promise, and just tell you what my ears hear.
That's it.
fin |
Hummmm. Haven't done an ODSE to analog shootout.
I'll do that when my ODSE comes in!!!
Great idea. ;) |
UPDATE:
I tried the Empirical Audio Final Drive with the Aeris every way I could think of…. I am focusing on burning in the Aeris, so I did not unplug it and try the ODSE at this time (other then a quick test I will touch on, just to confirm a theory).
I reported previously on using the FD as a direction connection between ODSE and Amp (in series) - I preferred the pre-amp in my signal path with the ODSE. But I think that in other systems with "lesser" pre-amps it would probably sound better direct with the FD in series.
I make no specific commentary about the Aeris at this time as it is still burning in. I used it to compare locations of the FD only. I did NOT try running the Aeris direct to amp yet as it is not fully burned in. So you will have to wait for the Aeris direct to amps and Aeris - FD - Amps (direct in series) evaluations until next week.
Here were the configurations and commentary on each of the other configurations I tried:
Aeris - FD - Criterion Pre amp - Vertias Amp:
Definitely preferred running the DAC direct to the pre-amp. But my pre-amp HAS transformers in the inputs already and the Aeris is transformer coupled on the output, so this step was almost redundant. I believe most pre-amps don't utilize transformers (and I think most DAC's don't either), so this would probably be the best spot for a system with a transformerless input stage on the pre-amp and/or output stage on the DAC. Doubling up the transformers made the image a bit slurred and less defined, and muddied up the lower frequencies. I did not prefer it.
ODSE - FD - Pre amp - Amp (I only tried this briefly to see if using a DAC without a transformer coupled output would make a difference from what I found using the Aeris to Criterion):
Not the same effect as with the Aeris, which confirms what I suspected since I am almost positive the ODSE does not have a transformer coupled output stage. Again, I encourage Steve to chime in. I did not give this extensive listening as I will do this on Monday when the Aeris has a full 700 hours on it and I can unplug it and give the ODSE some play time. But I can say that the faults I heard between the Aeris and the Criterion were not there.
Aeris - Pre amp - FD - Amp:
My assumption with the Final Drive between the Pre-amp and Amp is that the DAC should have no bearing on the sound in this position. Meaning that the Final Drive should have the same effect on any music running through the pre-amp regardless of source, even if source was a turntable/phono-stage. So I used the Aeris in this test as source assuming that the FD would do the same thing to the ODSE. I will not run the ODSE in this configuration as I feel it would be redundant. You have NO idea how much time this is all taking!!!!
In this position it makes more sense as the Veritas amps do not have transformer coupled inputs, even though the Criterion uses transformer coupled outputs. I spoke with Merrill of Merril Audio and he chose not to utilize transformers on his input stage intentionally as he feels that transformers have benefits and liabilities and he did not like the liabilities, but he was actually VERY curious to hear the results of this test.
So…. Most of what I heard I liked very much. I can say that the Final Drives will be VERY equipment dependent! For my system, what i noticed is that adding the Final Drives to the system very subtly cleaned up the higher frequencies. I did not hear any additional extension in the highs, but they appears to be a tad crisper. The midrange was relatively unchanged. The lower frequencies clearly had a bit more extension and reach, but I felt that they were not quite as tight as without the FD in the equation; I would almost say the lows were more analog. Some would unquestionably prefer it, especially with a system highlighting accuracy as it would add extension and depth while creating a sense of realism to soften up an overly accurate bottom end. Edges were equally musical and refined with FD in and out and dynamics were excellent. Although I didn't think the FD added spark or punch to the dynamics, it neither retraced from them either. There were a few specific moments that I felt the music a little "slower" through the FD, although I can not explain it...
Besides the soundstage/imaging, all the other effects mentioned above were subtle, subtle, subtle. With the Final Drive in between the amp and pre-amp the stage/imaging was MUCH wider and deeper; like someone grabbed the stage and stretched it in every direction (left to right and front to back). I very much liked this. But with the wider stage, came a wider sense of spacial location. The best way I can describe it is using a video reference. The soundstage went from 4x3 to 16x9. But it wasn't like I was hearing a 16x9 source, it was like using the "stretch" function on the TV to stretch the 4x3 source to fit the wider screen. Everything was where it belonged, and accuracy of image placement was there, but each image within the soundstage stretched equally with the soundstage to fill the wider area. This gave my brain the impression of increasing soundstage and decreasing accuracy, which is not truly correct. In essence, it made it sound like I took my speakers and couch and moved them into a much larger room and just spread everything apart more.
I spoke with Merrill and he warned me that "more air is sometimes more smear."
I can't say for sure if thats the case here. But I can say that I preferred the wider and deeper soundstage with the FD in line, but I prefer the image "accuracy" with it out.
My impression is that, in a dedicated listening room, the FD would be a no brainer addition and anyone with a dedicated listening room needs to audition them. I think that my room's weaknesses and the specific gear I have accentuate what the FD does wrong imaging wise. And if it were not for the change in imaging accuracy (which I don't want to call loss in accuracy because it's not, its just a bigger image) I would unquestionably keep the FD in between the pre-amp and amp forever as I really liked everything else it does (except that slightly loser bottom end).
This is where it gets complicated…. I think that if I tried the MA1 with the FD and my pre-amp and amp, that it would give me more of what I want and less of what I don't. But I also think that I could use McIntosh pre-amp/FD/Mac amp with the Big6 and Revel Salon 2's and have a stunning performing system. The Final Drive clearly has special properties that, if well implemented, can truly improve a system. Trial and error will tell you.
In my system, ultimately I preferred it out. Primarily because of 2 factors; a slightly less controlled bottom end although it did extend to lower frequencies, and a change in imaging that was not to my liking. I will miss that massive soundstage though. I could literally get out of my chair and walk into it!
As I said, I did not try the FD in series direct between Aeris and Veritas amps as the Aeris is not fully burned in. I will try it next week.
I also did not give a full audition to the FD between the ODSE and the Pre-amp. I will do that next week as well.
I don't know if there is an acoustic difference between adding the FD transformer coupling on the input end or output end, but I guess I will see….
I welcome Steve, Guido, or anyone else with more technical know how then myself (which is probably all of you) to add to this. This is obviously not a DAC comparison, but it is interesting and the FD will be the perfect solution for some of you and clearly has the capacity to make huge changes in the system.
fin |
Neurotic you say?!?!?
I resemble that remark!
I'm still away, will be home late tonight and have to work all day tomorrow and Friday to pay for my holiday.
The Aesthetix will come when Jon contacts me and lets me know it's in, properly burned in, and ready to borrow. If anyone wants to check with Jon to see where that process is, be my guest. I don't want to bother him. I'm sure he will contact me when it's ready.
As to the topic of burn in I can only say this. I don't know how long each unit takes to burn in, nor do I 100% understand it. But I know it matters and it makes the unit sound better. I am relying on those that own each unit to advise me as to how long a reliable burn in time is. It sounds like 700h for the Aeris and 500 for the DirectStream. It simply is what it is and I endeavor to give each the best chance I can. I do agree that, although additional time on top of the usual burn in time may allow the unit to continue to mature, there is a point at which it's negative virtues have abated and it's true personality has emerged. After that, it sounds the same essentially but just gets better. So I will use the 700/500 target times.
Mrmb said it best. Regarding tubes, I rely on the manufacturers to pick a solid performer and leave tube rolling until after I buy the unit. The Big 6 is sold and someone else is enjoying its wonderful attributes. I will try the Aesthetix in its stock configuration. Nuff said.
I'll try to get an update to you as soon as I can. |
Steve, that's my next listening session.
Guido, I tried FD directly between ODSE and Veritas and preferred the Criterion in between.
Now to try FD between ODSE and Criterion and FD between Criterion and Veritas. With all the Rowland gear being transformer coupled, I am thinking it will make the biggest difference (for better or worse) between the pre and amp. I will also try the FD between Aeris and Veritas direct, although with the transformer coupling in the Aeris there may be incompatibilities.
Finally, I will try the ODSE to Criterion to Veritas as I have been, but add in the Short Block (which, from what I understand, basically divides the small dc USB power from the line which helps to improve sound. Makes sense, let's see....
The Aeris has about 570 hours on it by days end. That means just 6 more days and it will have over 700 hours on it. Then I can run the real head to head and get poor Steve's gear back to him so he can pass it on to another lucky audition. Remember, even if I decide on Steve's ODSE I need to send this one back and he builds me a brand new one.
A few days later, the DirectStream will have its 500 hours on it..... |
My apologies all. Between my family and work, my audiophile obsession is getting put on the back burner. The kids are off to sleep away tomorrow (at least 2 of 3) so the day has been spent working and then prepping and packing last minute. My oldest is a music addict (can't imagine where he got it from) and I am loading his iPod, and my daughters, right now. He's filling it with classical, movie soundtracks and classic jazz. She's filling it with Pop, rock and Rap (blech!).
I may have some time tomorrow after the kids are off, but with my wife home I don't see much of an opportunity until Sunday since it will be the first few days alone with the 6 year old….
I can promise that the wait will be well rewarded!! Wednesday will be 744 hours on the Aeris and the FINAL SHOWDOWN between the Aeris and the ODSE. I will try to do the FD tests this coming Monday if I have time as well.
The Direct Stream started cooking on the 18th. 20 days (about 500 hours) puts us at a target of Tuesday, July 8th. Wednesday is my free morning so it will be 500+ hours and the big comparison between the winner of the ODSE/Aeris and a the Direct Stream.
Still no idea on the Aestheix, or if Jon even has it in his store yet….
So good stuff coming! Be patient my fellow Audiophilio Obsessiva and you shall be rewarded!
lol... |
Thanks Steve.
So should I expect a similar result with FD between ODSE and Criterion since the Criterion has transformer on its input stage as well as it's output stage?
It sounds like the Rowland gear just doesn't play well with the FD. It's all about system synergy.... |
Ok. So I will pass on trying the FD with the ODSE between it and the pre-amp, and with the Aeris direct. I will, however, try it with the Direct Stream when trying it direct to amp. Neither the DS nor the Veritas have transformers.
Next update will be Monday. |
UPDATE corrections.
That should have said 4 hours. Not 2 hours.
Sorry |
UPDATE:
(sorry for the delay, I have been getting hammered at work)
I spent about 2 hours thoroughly comparing the Aeris and ODSE yesterday morning. Back and forth, focusing on each little detail and part of each units performance. I started with the Aeris and made every effort to not listen, but just fall into the music. Then I changed to the ODSE and repeated my entire song list. Then back to the Aeris and forth to the ODSE to focus in on different qualities. Here are my final findings.
I will start by saying that I did not try the Aeris direct to the amps. I have found, over and over, that the pre-amp gets me closer to the music. I don't know why, but it just does. I will try direct in the next week or so and report, but I expect to like it more going through the Criterion. I also need to report that I retired the Final Drives as they didn't match my system.
The Aeris now has over 750 hours on it and, I believe, has settled in to what it is. Yes, it may get better over the next 750 hours, but I think that its primary qualities and characteristics are well displayed at this time. It has become an amazing DAC over the hours and truly blossomed into world class performance. The soundstage is now almost equal to the ODSE and it's imaging it laser point accurate. Each performer locates at a unique place in space and has air and life around them. The depth of the soundstage opened up as well. its lower frequencies are accurate, extended and have impact while nicely controlled and never lose or flabby. Mids are magical, open and reproduce vocals wonderfully. The highs are extended and meticulous. Leading and trailing edges are right on and sound as they should. It is clearly a solid state piece of kit with all of the benefits that come along with a top tier version of said kit.
The ODSE is unchanged and still has the same sonic signature I described before.
Time to chose between them…..
In my system, my room, and my ears, I prefer the slightly warmer and more analog tone of the ODSE. Both throw practically holographic images, but the ODSE seamed to be a hair wider and deeper. Accuracy with imaging was identical, both sensational. Low frequency extension was a tad better with the Aeris and the Aeris holds control a wee bit better. But the ODSE is no slouch in that regard. My unit will have CUTF coupling caps, which Steve says will provide a slight improvement in the lower frequencies. The mids with both are natural, accurate and musical. Tone and texture is recreated beautifully in both cases, just with a slightly different voice that would not make me chose one over the other. There is an ability to hear into the music a bit more with the ODSE that the Aeris sometimes didn't give me. Little nuances and whisps of a sound or even a texture of a sound that caught my attention with the ODSE that were not quite as pronounced with the Aeris. A hammer on a string, the breath blown into a french horn, the pluck of a harp. Not dramatic, but there. Vocals seamed a bit more natural on the ODSE, more like they were there in the room as opposed to standing on a stage. High frequencies helped me to make my choice most profoundly. I simply prefer the upper register reproduction of the ODSE over the Aeris. The Aeris has been, since its start, a bit more pronounced then the ODSE in this regard. It is no longer bright, or dramatic. But vocals, flutes, and bells have an extension in the upper registers that pulls me from the magic and makes me hear more analytically.
I would say that if my system were tubed, the Aeris would be a MUCH better match. The warming of the tubes would perfectly offset the high frequency extension that I am hearing with my Criterion and Veritas amps. Its interesting since the lower end Rowland gear does still maintain a very subtle sense of warmth that the Criterion does not. I do not know if the amps have them also. I can see that the Aeris would be an un-freaking-belieable complement to the Capri S2 with a good amp that would verge on ultra exotic performance for WAY less. But in my system, with my equipment, I prefer the magic the ODSE provides.
The music that emerges when listening to vocals on the ODSE is just downright stunning. You have to fight to stay focused before you close your eyes and drift off to magic music land. With classical music I honestly found that the Aeris was a bit better. if I could keep both, I would listen to the Aeris for classical and instrumental and the ODSE when any vocals were required. But I felt that for my needs, the ODSE did pretty much just as good a job with instrumental and the Aeris wasn't quite up to the magic that the ODSE gave me.
I want to overstate that in a different system the Aeris would clearly beat the ODSE. For those deciding between the two, you can build a top tier system first and just tune to taste using either of these amazing dac's!
To over-simplify: in my system, room and ears the ODSE sounded a bit more analog then the Aeris. So much so that at one time I pulled out an LP on my Terres Audio table, Graham arm and Denon cartridge (Electrocompaniet phono stage) just to compare ODSE to true analog and the similarities were almost creepy comparing a red book CD to LL of the same song. Don't know how Steve does it, but its quite an accomplishment.
So there you have it. If anyone is interested in the Rowland Aeris, please PM me and we can work out a fair deal. It is for sale. In the right system, I truly believe you won't find better.
I will be totally honest - I was shocked! I expected to like the Aeris more (as did Agear obviously). lol. But thats why we do auditions. Steve did something seriously right with the transistors in those 2 boxes and he deserves a standing ovation for his accomplishments!!!
Now, I have not decided 100% on the ODSE just yet since the PS Audio Direct Stream is still steeping. I took a quick listen yesterday and with about 380 hours on it there is some serious performance warming up in that heavy box Paul built. it outclasses the PerfectWave2 in every way and showed me some serious high end performance. More similar in sound to the ODSE then the Aeris to be honest. I have very little expectation for the DS. Paul did such a great job of generating buzz that I became skeptical almost immediately as to its real level of performance. It constantly gets compared to less expensive dac's and NEVER to more expensive dac's; and Paul claims it can eat $15K dac's for breakfast and expose music, texture and tone that even the recording engineer of the CD didn't know was there. Uh, count me in the nay sayer group.
But, with all of that said, I was impressed with my mid burn in listen and won't count it out until it has 500+ hours on it, which will happen next Wed. I didn't expect it to sound as good as it did at the mid 300 mark, and I never expected to hear performance to make me truly consider it over the Aeris or ODSE….
I originally told Steve that I would ship everything back this Friday, but I am hoping he lets me postpone final shipment until next Thursday. I'm SO close to completing my shootout….
On a side note, I must mention the Short Block USB filter. I finally tried it out on the ODSE and it will remain there. The improvement is not dramatic, but its not subtle either. It doesn't do anything truly identifiable. I felt that my system was as black as space before I added the SB, and I didn't really detect any lowering of the noise floor after. But adding it made the music more musical. The soundstage didn't open or deepen and image accuracy didn't improve; it just got better. I don't get it, but it works. I even tried it on the Aeris and it had the same effect. Anyone using USB as a source needs to get one of these little $200- gizmos; you will be very glad you did!!!
Sorry for the long delays between posts. Lots going on here family and work wise….
I will post after the next shootout next Wednesday. I also look forward to getting the Aesthetix in to see how it fairs.
I will say that JoeCasey and Agear certainly have a good point in saying that whats good now may not stand the test of time. But I don't really know how to truly tell unless I kept both for a year, constantly swapping the two. I can't afford that, and it would make me even crazier then I already am. I need to decide now and happily live with my decision. Besides, I am sure that in another year or two someone will come out with a magic Gosnoto cube that converts digital to uber digital and will blow everything away. Color me blown away by what is currently available and in no great need to replace what I chose in the next few years; at least not until high res gets to the point that all music is available in that format and then I'll upgrade. |
I appreciate your input Grannyring. I understand your point. Thank you. |
Oops. Accidentally hit enter.
Grannyring - my ears obviously agree with your logic as I consistently chose the ODSE over the other DAC's, and the ODSE is essentially an Offramp AND a DAC in one unit. Is it the Offramp alone that makes me like the ODSE more? Or the DAC unit? Or their synergy? I don't know.
In essence, I took your advice and chose to use the Offramp. Just inside the DAC I picked.
I totally understand that you think this exercise was jaded as I should have been using the OffRamp from the start with my Mini to give the other DAC's the best source possible. And your probably right. So the ODSE had an unfair advantage with it's built in OffRamp. To use your analoge, I was running the ODSE with rocket fuel while the Lampy and Aeris got regular octane fuel.
Basically your implying that the ODSE is essentially a $4k DAC with a built in $3k OffRamp. So the DAC isn't really in the same class as the other DAC's I'm comparing.
Sadly, I just don't have the extra $3+K to invest at this time to test that.
So:
ODSE - about $7'ish k retail
Aeris - $9800 + $3k for Offramp + $500 in cables = $13,300
Big 6 - $8k + $3k + $500 = $11,500
Let's see how the DS does next Wed.
Maybe I can convince Steve to send me a fully loaded OffRamp and SPDIF cable for a day or 2 to see if you are right...
But I feel that I have asked a lot of him already. |
No idea.
I've been hammered at work, again.
I'm going to play with that stuff early next week.
I will do the upgrade before the shootout. I promise. |
If cost were no object I would have an acoustically perfect concert hall in my home and live performances day and night. ;) |
Interesting UPDATE:
I was approached by the owner of APL HiFi, Alex Peychev, and offered an audition of his DSD-S. This is an $8K DAC, all hand built with lots of high end doo dads, gizmos and proprietary thingamabobs that we audiophiles love to have in our gear! Relatively boutique line so not super well known. Both PCM and DSD compatable. Feel free to do a google search to learn more about it, it has very impressive specs.
I'll post my update/review when I get it in and give it a listen.
Wednesday is soon approaching for my ODSE vs DS battle. I'll keep you posted. The DS is steeping and the ODSE is resting up for the big fight. |
Sorry all. I did my comparison yesterday. I'm so busy I can't get time to sit and write about it. Hopefully later today....
What for the Update. |
|
Does anyone know if there is a way to edit a post after it's submitted? My occasional typos are driving me nuts! And sometimes I think of something to add to a post I just submitted and then need to post a second time..... |
Tbg - your post makes no sense to me on so many levels.
Most importantly is why you are even here if you think this thread is worthless. I have no problem with you thinking that at all, but why did you read it then???
And for you to dismiss the Lampy so cavalierly, or tubes in general, boggles my mind. I have the luxury of having heard the Lampy, recognizing its incredible strengths and it's few weaknesses.
I can't imagine that my comparisons haven't helped at least one person to get the audible flavor of some of the gear I have auditioned. If it doesn't help you I'm fine with that. But I'm sincerely hoping I have either helped, or at least stimulated, some of the other readers.
We are at 33 thousand views. So I'm thinking someone is enjoying reading this.... I may check this thread frequently, but I can't take credit for all 33 thousand views. Lol. |
"My only real conviction is that most others, were they to do the same, would not agree about the winner."
Then they would all be wrong and burn in the fiery pits of Mordor! Bwa Hahahaha!!!!!!
Ehem. Did I say that out loud?
I seriously believe the ODSE is a sensational piece and many of you would be as impressed as I am of its stellar performance. But system synergy is everything and tastes vary, that's why we have so many manufacturers who are all making a living selling gear.
It's always more fun going on a trip with friends. And I made a whole bunch of new friends on this trip. Mission accomplished, on SO many levels!!! |
UPDATE continued:
oops. I hit submit by accident.
So keep watching and I'll throw reports of the other DAC's up as I get them in. Thanks to everyone for giving me your ear and your opinion thus far. It has been enormously fun!
As always, let the pot shots commence!!!
fin |
I wanted to send a big Thank You out to Merrill of Merrill Audio (another lone wolf manufacturer who builds every piece by hand).
He loaned me a set of 2m RCA and XLR cables to do my shootout. They are exceptional and reasonably priced for how good they are. Merrill is very generous with loaning cables for auditions, especially since very few come back (ie. most auditions end in a purchase).
Google Merrill Audio and check it out. My Veritas monoblock amps are ridiculously good!!!! He also just introduced a Phono stage that the owner of VPI said was amongst the best he had ever heard. Check it out! |
Guido. I openly admit I would get better results with one of Steve's OffRamp USB to spdif converters. If I had an unlimited budget, I would have tried that.
But your statement needs to be reiterated. If you are planing on using a transport, especially transformer coupled, then the Aeris will sound better then my evaluation described. How much better, and what the differences would be I do not know. That is for me to not know and you to find out. ;) |
Erikminer- I can only speak from my own experience.
Before I started the thread and before there was any secondary gain for Steve, he was responsive (like same day) to his emails and phone calls, and he was clear and specific about his payment and return policies. He was (and is) quote confident about his gear and is very honest about the upgrades and what they accomplish. He also told me that he is constantly tweaking and fine tuning his gear and offers improvements to his established customer base as they are available; for a minimal fee.
He is clearly a talented and passionate audiophile engineer. His fund of knowledge, very well laid out policies and quick email response led me to try out the OverDrive SE. And boy am I happy I did!!!
Ozzy - There are always 3 sides to every story. Theirs, yours, and the truth.
Be careful to criticize someone when their livelihood is at stake. You may do more damage then you intended. Especially on a Forum.
That all being said. I have not owned long term and do not know Steve's policies or how he handles an issue or problem after the warranty is up...
All I know is that he makes a hell of a DAC!!! |
I intentionally ran every DAC with the same everything to keep all variables out of the equation except the DAC itself. Same rack, same power cables, same interconnects, same ancillary equipment, same ears, same obsessive compulsive mentality. I listed all the equipment at the very start of the thread. All top tier cables, rack, accessories, etc.
I used my Shunyata ZiTron Alpha Digital power cable. I found that anything I put Shunyata ZiTron PC's on sounds its best. I believe it is because what Shunyata does better then most is filter out noise caused by and affected by other equipment in my system. My power from the wall is very clean and very consistent. I live in a pretty suburban/rural area with few on my grid.
Obviously there will be those that feel a piece I tried is better suited to another PC or interconnects; and it very well may be. But I tried to use the best, most musical and resolving cables and accessories I could afford to get the very best from my gear and my shoutout. The power cord and interconnects (added up) connected to the DS cost about 1/2 to 2/3 of the DAC itself. I do not feel I gave any of the equipment an unfair advantage or disadvantage with the cables or accessories I used. I also don't think I would have gotten dramatically different results with other cables or power cords; sorry. |
Sorry. The k-01 will be done with its second set of settings burn in next wed. I promise I'll post when Its done. |
ODSE expected next week yay!
DSD-S also incoming. Looking forward to that.
Will keep you updated. |
I haven't heard the Romulus yet guys.
I didn't go to Audio Connection yet as I am waiting for the call from John that it is ready for a home audition. |
Although I would enjoy the social get together CTsooner, it is pointless to me to hear equipment anywhere except my system for an accurate comparison.
Maybe we can find a night for you and Merrill and a few others to meet at my house for a listen. |
Hi all.
On vacation for the week in Maine.
Really really looking forward to getting my ODSE.
Still have the Aeris. Very surprised it hasn't sold yet to be honest.
Very curious about the Romulus. Really want to hear it in my room.
Honestly, I am curious about the Lampy 7 also. But the 7 has size restrictions that make it a challenge for me (the only place I can fit it is where my turntable is).
Also, the DSD-S is on its way. No idea what to expect with that.
So I've got at least 2 more auditions coming your way....
Stay tuned. :) |
APL HiFi is the manufacturer. The model is the DSD-S.
He offered to send one to me for audition. I am happy to hear it if he's willing to get it to me. I will report honestly, as always.
It's not really my "dream" to run direct. I'd say my dream would involve several hundred Victorias Secret models, a remote island, a barrel of Hershey chocolate bars, a limitless supply of steak and no other man but me on the island..... Ok, and a good stereo. ;) |
So the Romulus Signature is not in the store yet?
Steve just informed me that my ODSE will be shipping later this week. I'm SO psyched!!
I'll burn her in for a few hundred extra hours and let her sing. The DSD-S has some stiff competition. And I still have the Aeris.
Whenever the Romulus Signatire is ready, I can wait. No rush.
I am under the impression Steve has some new upgrades coming soon as well. I'll let him explain, if he wants to. Nothing available yet tho. |
"Several hundred!!! You'd be dead within a month."
Nah. I'd pace myself..... ;) |
