Aaaargh. Please help Viridian select a new TV.


I barely understand audio, never mind video, but my old TV finally bit the dust and I need a new one. I can't make heads or tails out of the specs, liquid crystal, plasma, DLP, sounds like my doctor's office. 1080, 720, Blue Ray, whaaa? So here is the basic info. I sit 12' from the set, on axis, in a large room that does not have any glare or excess light issues. I watch movies on DVD frequently and tend to keep my gear for decades. I generally don't chase the SOTA, just like something reliable and enjoyable. Suggestions as to screen size, technology and brand name are greatly appreciated.
viridian

Showing 2 responses by markphd

As a regular here at Audiogon, I don't think there's too much we can tell you that you don't already know. And you certainly know that whatever anybody says, somebody else is going to totally disagree with it, so we'll end up being no help anyways.

For what it's worth, here's my opinion,... thanks for asking.

Technology: LCD

LCD has some advantages over plasma and plasma has some advantages over LCD. It seems to me that as time passes however, LCD is eroding plasma's advantages faster than plasma is eroding LCD's advantages. Until something else comes to market that kills them both (eg. SED or Sony's proprietary version of SED), I would take LCD (and I have). Plasma has brighter colours, faster response and better contrast. However, current generation LCD's are not so poor on these points that they are an issue any longer, at least in my view, ...no pun intended. On the other hand, LCD's have smaller pixels than plasmas. So you will get a sharper picture and better resolution on the new high definition formats, no matter which one it is, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, or HD TV broadcasts. That's why you don't see small plasmas, by the way, like computer screens for example. The larger pixels on the smaller screen would be quite noticeable. It's just my opinion, but I find the "screen door effect" on plasmas caused by the larger pixels in thier grid pattern to be incredibly annoying. Once you see them, you always notice them. I even find it hard to look at CRTs now without seeing the pixel grid after having had an LCD for a couple of years.

Forget DLP. It's an interesting technology and Samsung do it well. However, it'll be gone soon. It's not as "flat" as plasmas and LCDs, so the consumer market doesn't want it. Ever seen a DLP in Wal-Mart? It's the eight track cassette of the TV world. We can make it, but nobody wants it. I will be flamed by the DLP owners for saying this. However, this is a normal psychological response as they attempt to reduce their cognitive dissonance from having bought one. However, they don't know where I live and can't find me anyway so I'm safe from them.

Resolution: 1080p

I don't know if anything is even broadcast in 1080p yet so it's of limited value at the moment on that point. However, it will be useful in taking advantage of newly emerging high resolution DVD formats. Since you plan on having your TV a long time, you may as well future proof the thing to the extent you are able to. Besides, any decent TV sold today will have 1080p anyways.

Features: multiple HDMI inputs and an audio out.

I have just one HDMI input on my TV. I wish I had at least two. It's good to have a couple for the same reason that you want an amp with more than one input. You are likely to have a couple of things you might want to plug into it: DVD player, DVD recorder, satellite box, cable box, game console. If the external devices you own don't have HDMI, they will soon. So when you upgrade them, you want to have the TV being able to take them in their full glory. More future proofing. Of course you could use some sort of switching box with multiple HDMI inputs. Yeah right. Just like you could do this for an amp with not enough inputs. Just get sufficient inputs to begin with and be done with it. Use the component outputs on the external devices if they don't presently have HDMI, and make sure the TV has enough component inputs. And you want audio out so you can possibly hook a pair of quality speakers and an amp to the TV if you wish. And being an audiophile, why wouldn't you want an an oppotuntity to spend more money?

High resolution format wars? Don't worry about it. Get a 1080p TV and it will take whatever. That's an issue for the external device choice, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray; it's not an issue for the TV.

Screen size: 55 to 60 inches.

Everybody who buys a TV wishes they bought a bigger one. But it has to be appropriate for the room and your viewing position. There are a variety of formulae and rules of thumb for screen size. One simple rule is that you should be sitting between two and five times the diagonal screen size away from the TV. So if you're twelve feet away, 55 to 60 inches would be good. You could go a little bigger, but the price jumps exponentially after 60 inches. I don't know if it's worth it.

Brand: Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Samsung.

Take your pick. Whatever looks good to you. I think the Sony and Panasonic are a touch better than the other two, but that's just my opinion. I wouldn't feel hard done by having any of them. I would avoid the budget brands. You get what you pay for. If you go with plasma, and you buy cheap, a year from now you'll be looking at a TV with lots of interesting pink and green lines on the screen.

I have a Sony, but I had a hard time justifying the price difference compared to the Panasonic. Sony still maintain the fantasy that their equipment is so much better that they can charge a premium for it. I'm increasingly sceptical.

Sony don't make plasma anymore. They believe the immediate future is LCD. Panasonic make plasma and LCD, although they believe that plasma is better. As noted, I'm in the LCD camp.

In a previous post, I believe you mentioned that you were thinking about putting the TV on the wall above a fireplace or some other inanimate object. That's fine so long as it is not too high relative to your viewing position. Otherwise it's like sitting in the front row of a movie theatre. Your neck can get a bit sore. And don't forget my previious advice that your chair should have beer glass holders.
I just wanted to add a few extra comments I thought of while daydreaming at work today.

The first concerns screen size. I mentioned 55-60 inches. Upon further reflection, I would also suggest the 50-55 inch range.

The sweet spot in the mass market, which is what the world caters to, is about 42 inches. However, I really think that 42 would be too small if you're twelve feet away. Remember that a 42 inch widescreen is no taller in the vertical dimension than a 4:3 aspect ratio TV in the 32-36 inch range. It's wider but not taller so it really won't seem too much bigger. Fifty-five to sixty is a pretty hefty size in a normal room. Sixty inches at twelve feet might be too "in your face". Have a look at them in the store to see what you think. Fifty to fifty-five will feel like an upgrade in size from what you have, but not be too overwhelming if you sit close.

However, there is another important reason why I also suggest 50-55 inches, at least for LCD. For plasma, it's not an issue. As time passes, LCD's are getting bigger. This year's latest and greatest are breaking the fifty inch barrier. They are in the 50-55 inch range. If you went to 55-60 and were purchasing this year, you would have to look at an LCD projector, rather than a direct view LCD. Direct view LCDs and rear projector LCDs are sufficiently different in picture quality, at least in my mind, that they are not even in the same ballpark. Compared to plasmas, LCDs are not as vibrant in colour quality/contrast. But the direct view LCD of the current generation are good enough that I don't think this is an issue anymmore compared to plasma. However, I think that it is definitely an issue for the LCD projectors. The projectors are more sensitive to ambient light. If your lighting isn't right, the picture quality, particularly brightness and contrast, will drop off quite a bit. It makes plasma look that much better. As it stands today, if I wanted 55-60 inches, I would probably take a plasma. If it's 50-55 inches, I would take a direct view LCD. I would avoid the rear view projectors, whether it's LCD or DLP.

I didn't mean to insult the DLPs in my comments yesterday. The same comment applies to LCD rear projectors. They're not as good, in my view, as direct view, and the market just doesn't want them. Even though they're only twelve inches thick, you can't hang them on a wall, which is what the mass market wants. And the mass market drives the market. The big advantage of the rear projectors was size/price. However, with big plasmas coming down in price, and direct view LCDs getting bigger, the market for rear projectors is disappearing. You can see that happening in store ads. (Front projectors are a different story. They remain a niche product for those who want very large screens). Even Samsung, the DLP champion, is putting their money where their mouth is and investing hundreds of millions in production facilities for manufacturing LCD glass.

However, it does mean that there are some good deals on the projectors.

One other point about LCD projectors. Consumer Reports reports that there are abnormally high failure rates for LCD projectors. They recommend that you buy an extended warranty. Consumer Reports generally regard extended warranties as wasted money from a consumer's point of view, simply a cash cow for the retailer. For them to recommend that you buy an extended warranty on anything is notable (They also recommend extended warranties for treadmills, but I digress).

So on screen size, my suggestion is a direct view LCD in the 50-55 inch range. I would go with plasma for 55-60, but not a rear projector LCD at that size. And if plasma and direct view LCD were the same size, I would take LCD for the increased resolution and less annoying pixel grid.

One more point on brands. I forgot to mention Pioneer. If I were getting a plasma, I would short list Pioneer and Panasonic. If I were getting LCD, I would short list Sony, then Samsung and Toshiba. I don't think Panasonic's LCDs, although very good, are larger than the 30+ inch range. They're probably smaller than what you may be looking for. Panosonic are into plasma at the larger screen sizes. A lot of people like Sharp LCDs. Personally, I don't find them as good as the others, but I haven't seen this year's models.

There are a lot of good sights for AV information that some other posters may mention. It's worthwhile to educate yourself given the money involved.

And keep in mind that box store TV set-ups are terrible. It would be good to shop for a high-end TV as you would for a stereo. Go to a good store that has their TVs set-up and adjusted properly.

You don't need to thank me for all my sage advice. You can send money instead, or perhaps the phone number of an NBA referee who has somem insights into games during the upcoming season.