A Thought Exercise: Consolidating Analog To One Table and Two Cartridges

I appreciate the responses, as having a group to exchange ideas with is a great resource to work through these kinds of questions. Having a larger body of experience to draw from in invaluable.

The core question is really this. Does next tier of tables offer tangible gains in performance? That is really what the question is, would you not say?

Oh in terms of casual vinyl playback, or playing other records when friends are over, well that is a non-issue. When I installed this preamp, and hardwired it to the router the internal DAC offers such a level of performance that I can easily enjoy it for casual listening. Truthfully, if I did not have analog gear already I would be hard pressed to justify it. I don’t need casual cartridges, or different presentations, that has limited appeal to me these days.

If a Raven, Triangle, or Kuzma does not offer tangible improvements then it does seem the best option is to keep the Cosmos Eclipse here Now this is the tricky part. Of all my analog combos I prefer the Verismo through the BMC phono stage. I like the Proteus through the Esoteric, but its not my favorite. The Schroder arm is 11 inches, so it will not fit on the SOTA. If I plan on moving the Verismo to the SOTA that is going to need a different arm. I believe 10.5 inches is the longest I can go, and arm weight is a factor due to the suspension of the SOTA.

A couple of the suggestions so far basically put forth the answer of keeping what i have here now. The Dynavector is a removable headshell arm, and it is where I can play the various Ortofon cartridges. The problem is I find I have no desire or appreciation in rotating through them. The Verismo outplays them, and when I sit down to listen to analog that is what I want to hear. Digital is fine when I am at the computer drinking coffee in the mornings or whatever other casual listening I do.

So far option #2 looks like a viable choice. Sell the Scheu, Dynavector, Schroder, and Ortofon cartridges/SUT. As far as arms for the SOTA I would thnik Reed, Graham, Triplanar, or Kuzma?

Regarding Option #1. With this there is no try and decide. I don't have the financial resources to bring in a $15K table to listen to and then decide if I want it or not. To go down this path it requires me to sell off the tables and associated gear I have to make this choice. Of course that takes time, and then who knows exactly what is available on Audiogon at that point. Its the unfortunate fact of being a a person of limited financial resources. 

@pindac 

​​​​​​Previous to these tables I owned a SP 10 MK II in a constrained layer plinth, Denon PP75 in VPI plinth, and a Brinkman Bardo. Of the three I preferred the Denon. Prior to that I also owned a TD124 and a 401. Now every table stands on it's own merits, but as a general rule I find I appreciate these belt drives over the others. 

@mulveling

Essentially this makes the argument of standing pat with the tables and putting a better arm on the SOTA. That certainly is a viable option.

I recently acquired the Schroder CB-1L in January of this year, and I will say the quality of the bearings is so much higher than what is in the SME, I have a hard time believing it. I would have never thought there could be this large of a gap.

Perhaps a new arm for the Cosmos would be a good idea, and see what the potential of the table is. Leave the Scheu alone. According to @Pindac post other listeners are not unanimous on the thought that other tables are significantly better, but just perhaps different. At least that is the impression I get from reading the post.

@kingsleuy

I had one of those with a MA505 arm in the early 2000s. It was an underwhelming table, had no love for it. Wish I had it back though...so I could sell it again for more money.

@allenf1963  I love me some Dio era Sabbath. Heaven and Hell is one of my all time favorite songs. Very underappreciated piece that one is. Except by us old geezer(yeah I said it) metal heads that remember those times. 

@allenf1963 I am afraid disappointment is going to be a constant companion in your future...

@pindac Well essentially that points to standing where I am as both tables in my possession are quite respectable.  In a way that is how I got to this point. When buying the SOTA Cosmos I bought an earlier generation Star Sapphire to determine if I liked the philosophy of a SOTA table. I did, and the purchased Cosmos was significantly better in all aspects, but the overarching philosophy of a SOTA design remains.

In terms of buying the Sceu Audio Das Laufwerk No2, I have owned a Teres and Galibier table in the past. They are both high mass unsuspended designs that were based on one of the earlier Scheu tables. Once again basic philosophy holds true with the design. 

I have gotten to the point of where I am based on previous experiences, but this is where the trail ends. To move past this I have no road map, it is uncharted terrirtory.  

@mulveling Had a chat with Donna this morning. Arm length that is possible is typically 9 to 9.5 inches. They say they have done one 10" arm, a Jelco of some sort. Also states that the arm needs to be no more than two pounds and a couple of ounces. When they drill for the Origin Live Illustrious they have to do a custom arm board to lose enough weight to accommodate that arm. 

A Kuzma 4Point can be put on it, but the dust cover has to be cut to accommodate the arm. Apparently a Reed has issues as they have yet to cut a board for one. Perhaps its the weight issue as that pivot assembly is quite chunky. 

Not as easy a solution as one would think. 

@tomic601  As I read your post, it looks like an argument to keep the Cosmos Eclipse and the Scheu tables, as at this point we are trading flavors more than anything. To my thinking this makes the argument of upgrading the arm on the SOTA, and then using an isolation base under the Scheu. Now as much as a Minus K is intruiging, this is my living room and most of the instrument grade isolation stands are ugly beyond belief. This table is heavy, roughly 85 pounds, so most standard isolation bases are not really suitable. Would you suggest any other isolation devices?

@kennythekey Thanks for the response and the time you spent crafting it. I apologize in advance for my post as it will be far ranging and long winded I guess. 

The problem with auditioning next tier tables is that our systems and associated analog components are distinctive, and I have no way of knowing how it translates against a system built for an audio show. Unless you are willing to transport an expensive and delicate table to a dealer, then you really have no way of making an apples to apples comparison. So it does become a bit of a toss a dart and see what you hit. 

There is one line of thought that believes turntable drive units are closer to the same than different once you reach a certain plateau. That incremental improvements become expensive, and that tonearms and cartridges affect the sound far more than the drive unit. I can see the logic to that from a certain point of view. 

This seems to reinforce the idea that I stay with the drive units I have, and give more consideration to the arms I am using. I went down this path with amplification once, and sold a friend a very nice integrated amp that he wanted, and it took me 3 or 4 years to find an amp and pre amp I really could appreciate. They were not cheap either. I would not want to repeat that experience any time soon, and I am afraid that is what I would do if I changed tables. 

The Scheu Audio/Schroder/Verismo are a pleasing combination. The second arm is a Dynavector DV505 and it works for the Ortofon MC2000 if I use a light enough headshell. So its really the arm on the SOTA Cosmos Eclipse that I can consider a substitute for. 

In the end it looks like I have come full circle, but I know the reasons why I want to follow the path I have mapped out.