A stupid question for which there's no sensible answer.

Sax is good!

But i almost never listen to sax and most jazz is sax.... WHY? lol

But i am in love with trumpet playing..... For the last 2 days in a row for example i listened to many , many files of Kenny Wheeler 2 times... Underestimated master over many....

Wheeler play with his brain like Miles Davis, but i prefer him ....My favorite is Chet Baker, he plays ONLY for the heart....No more sounds....No more rumpet at the end.... Only voicing....

Tomato juice cold with cheese is audiophile drinking....

https://www.houseofhearing.co.uk/news/eating-cheese-help-prevent-hearing-loss

But champagne with cheese will do..... 😁

ill listen to a $500 audio system and be polite and say Sounds pretty Good
Then run like hell to my house and get my ears fixed . Let’s get that right

If i read a post of someone saying that the price is an indication of sound quality, more than electrical grid controls, more than vibrations controls and even more than acoustics basic laws i will not go to cleaning my brain to be polite but i will clean the post out of my eyes....

Oups i apologize to you....I am too rude and injust, i just realize that you dont speak about ALL 500 hundred systems but about one in bad settings.... Am i Correct ? If yes i deeply apologize for my free sarcasm.... If not i am sorry anyway....my system value is 500 bucks.... I listened system of very higher cost and i dont want them in their actual room and house settings....Mine is better... Audio simple law....

Anybody that has lived through an acoustical room transformation personally  KNOW that most upgrade before that is often  a lost of money...

Alas! all the sellers wanted to sells.... And most people had no idea that the acoustic is the main point in audio, not the particular design of an amplifier or of a dac  and not even of speakers...Any relatively good gear will sound marvellous in a good acoustical settings and bad in a non controlled  small room...

Before i worked it i have also no idea, and it is way more easy to think about buying  the illusion and elusive  perfect new gear to be satisfied than thinking about acoustic...

It is complex yes, but ANYBODY can listen and move or install something and improve one step at a time....

An equalizer is a good tool yes, but even without we can but  on a long period of listening taking the time to figure it all...

Keep hope if an ignorant and uncrafty man like myself can, anyone can....

the room treatments can’t fix a terrible room.

Yes you are right if someone dont have a room to fix....The source is important, but then the vibrations and the electrical grid noise floor are on par with the source quality and these 2 are also way underestimated in their destructive S.Q. power...Source is important but source is part of a complex problem... This is my point... And few make it in audio thread...

For the room problem, any room can be fix if mine can, a 13x13x8feet1/2 irregular room where one speaker big box is in a corner the other not....With 2 windows...

There is more ways to fix acoustic of a room that there is a number of materials solutions proposed and sold by acoustic retailers...We also must add to the passive treatment and work with active one (non electronic one in my case) ordinary resonators of different size, conventional Helmholtz bottles, non conventional Helmholtz tubes and pipes, Shumann generators grid, ionizer(non ozone one) and a few others....Acoustic retailer dont propose that much... But it is the tools with which we can deal with bass and very high frequencies problems in a difficult room... And there is plenty others i did not bother to try and which are very powerful ... Then....

I bought nothing for that job except peanuts costs products , i did it myself, with results so astounding that my system bear no resemblance at all with before and after....If i can do it myself, a non crafty hand reader of books, anybody can.... Trust in your ears and experiments is the way....Trust in our own ears are not recommended by techno fad ....But a room is created for ONLY your particularly designed ears not for a crowd...We must then use these ears we own first and all along.... The results will sound natural FOR our ears....The goal is the vibraphone and piano sound must be distinctly perceived in their own space with a distinct timbral tone and his aural varying colors and hues with his decreasing decay all that filling the room 3-d and not coming from the speakers.... When you reach that you dont speculate about a source change or an upgrade....

A bad room does not exist for creative mind, only difficult one...Those who said the opposite sells ready made generic acoustical solutions and dont want to waste too much time on difficult room...Paying an acoustician will do but will be costly if the room is difficult to tame....

All small room exhibit very different geometry , very different topology (doors, windows, and openings space) and very different materials content (with different acoustical properties of absorption, diffusion or reflection unbalanced) all that ask for specific acoustical controls not only passive materials treatment.... A small "bad" room is not a vast theater where acoustic law are simpler to apply in a linear way....

I am conscious that what i propose cannot be deal so easily with in a common room or a living room...That is the big problem... And i can only say that this illustrated my final point, more than source, a dedicated treated and controlled room is the main center of audiophile search.... Not the choice of a dac or of an amplifier.... Blind upgrade consumerism motivated by unsatisfaction is not the way.... Most good audio system can deliver very high S.Q. unbeknownst to their owner because they never listen to them in their optimal working controlled dimensions, what i called their embeddings...

Audiophile experience dont cost money at all, it cost thinking ears, and a room to set..... I proved for myself that the materials cost peanuts.... My room is absolutely not perfect and perhaps not even optimal.... But listening music i think that my room IS perfect....It is not a a deceptive illusion if you listen the piano like a real piano.... I dont wanted perfection to begins with, only good musical experience.... Thats all....

A friend who had a veterinarian appointment the next morning, was asked to bring the dog's sample. Worried that the dog wouldn't "go" in time, collected it the day before and preserved it in the refrigerator. He found that a stool in the fridge was a very bad idea: :)

😁😊

Very funny....

Thanks for the correction....

Sometimes my bad mastering of english is a bit too much evident....

It is the funniest correction i ever read ....

My best to you.....



" I knew someone must have stool (stolen is better) mine in my fridge.."

It's not like you're eating the last piece of cheesecake. (This is the last act for which I feel shame)

I knew someone must have stool mine in my fridge..... Damn you....😊

All is important....But even the source is not on the level of power than the room acoustic...

Why is not evident for all?

Because most people think that their room is good if not good OK...

Most people cannot fathom the abyssal, total, complete difference between the controlled acoustic settings of a room and his absence or lacks...



Anybody can be an expert on source and decree that digital, turntable, tonearm, phonostage is important .... indeed they are very important.... ANYBODY know that and can listen easily to the differences.... It is not difficult to change elements of source and compare...

But who has try to transform completely incrementally his room? And after that compare?

Very few....It is way more complicated to figure out than a simple source change....Trust me....

I did it....It takes me 2 years and many materials and devices of my own at NO cost tough....It is not perfect at all...

BUT there is no upgrade which can rival with this, and even not for example the change of a bad dac for a good turntable .... This is a small change compared to trust me... BUT WHY?

Because the room is a MAGNIFIER GLASS of all changes on a scale that surpass all and each one separate changes ....Learn that by heart....

Why do you think rich audiophiles pay more for a room than for all the gear? are they stupid?


The room is so important that ANY informed acoustician, not sellers of speakers or amplifiers, any scientist acoustician will confirm to you that :

"NO SPEAKERS BEAT THE ROOM»- Anonymus acoustician


But someone who has never experiment with his room can speak of cables or other "improvements".... He can boast about dac or vinyl.... There is differences between all these and big one, yes...

But none of these change can compare to a very well dress room... NONE...

My opinion dont come from a book, my opinion come from my experiment....

If there is so much desperation and frustration in audio community, and lost of money , the main cause is this ignorance....

I will not repeat about the importance of the other 2 embeddings.... Some will accuse me of old age advanced mumbling ... 😁

I can see that I'm a master of posing unanswerable/possibly pointless questions.

I like your manner.... By the way it is what true master of life are....




Apart of all this information technical mostly it is very important to experiment ourself in listening and feed back modifications...

What we inform with in these experiments cannot be look for on the internet...

Our listening room and gear is a very specified and unique system related to our ears.... And improving it call not only for tech information but for experiments.... Simple onee but many experiments...

I transform totally my system this way...

Tech information is basic and generic, generic because tech information apply to all audio system... A slight modification in your room nowhere else described is specific and can give great benefit also.... I call that listenings experiments... I created all my devices this way....

Technical information is necessary but dont replace creativity.....And sometimes technical information conditioned us in the road where all are going.... all throw money to so called better design for example.... Creativity let you created your own road...At no cost....

No technical information given to me give me the idea to place a salt lamp near speakers....

My "nutty" example is volontarily chosen to be "nutty" for the clarity of what i speak about...

Idiots can laugh....

The most important component of a listening system is the listener.

Very wise!

My best to you....

Before i learn how to embed my system in a rightful manner acoustically in my room, i was thinking that my dac was not detailed and lack refinement.... Some reviewers had even affirm so in their review despite glowing positive acclaim... I was on the verge of saying that they were right about my dac....


After improving mechanical, electrical, and acoustical settings of my room i completely change my view about my dac and even about my speakers...

Without embeddings controls any upgrade is throwing his money....Except for an evident weakness in the gear for sure...

But how someone can know how to upgrade if he had never listen to his actual system working at his optimal potential S.Q. in the first place?

Try my last creation the Helmholtz-Fibonacci room tuner: 3 sets of brick with holes where you will insert 3 plumber pipes in each three bricks with proportion equal to 1.6 for each 3 pipes, the fibonnacci ratio...Read wikipedia for a definition of the golden ratio... You are probably more crafty with your hands than me, then it will look like a modern sculptures in the room...It can be beautiful.... 

Cost: 3 bricks and 9 discarded copper plumber pipes....the nine pipes are between 5 or 6 inches the shortest and the longest 6 feet or a little more....

I sell creativity, the cost is low.... And the risk more lower.... 😊

Room Treatment is number #1. No if’s and’s or Buts.....

Everybody think that, myself included, but almost no one speak about number 2 and number 3 and together, i said they are ALMOST as important...

Then there is no "if" but there is a "but".....

The word "almost" is well defined in any dictionary...

Getting setup of whatever you have right overall based on room acoustics is always the first order. Only then can you properly decide what upgrades to attempt or if even needed.

This is my point also but most people forget the 2 others embeddings controls of an audio system:

Vibrations and resonance controls,
Electrical grid of the  house and room controls,

These 2 together act differently on the sound quality perception  but together their negative impact is almost equal to the negative impact of the bad or lack of acoustical settings in a room...

This is why i called all that embeddings controls not only acoustical controls...

But yes acoustic is the most evident and powerful .....But the other 2 almost rival it in destructive power...

I know that by personal experience and experiments...

«Selling the absolute dont help the relatives but it can create a relation» -Groucho Marx

It depends not at all....

My answer was obtained after many experiments....

First choose basic good one elements for sure...We must first have an audio system....

After that try to embed these elements rightfully, controlling vibrations, and decreasing the electrical noise floor of the house grid, and try to install controls for all acoustical dimensions of sound in the room...

There is no other road....

Upgrading is the last thing to do before making sure that you already had a good listen to your actual gear working in optimal conditions...

If someone advise someone else for improving his S.Q. to change cable, he is ignorant simply.... Cables make a difference but a small one, especially in a bad embedded system....

Most people have never listen to their system in optimal condition, this is the reason why many throw money unsatisfied...

In general a relatively low cost system may give you a very good audiophile experience contrary to what most audio reviewers will say,because they are paid or unpaid sellers; the only condition is treat and control the acoustic of the room , the vibrations of the gear, and the electrical grid of the room of the house and of the gear....

It is the only thing i know and learn and the rest has no importance for me....Who give a damn to know what is the best costly amplifier in the world if the one you own is relatively good?

My 500 bucks system will give an heart attack to many with very costly one..... They laugh seeing it in my virtual page because people superficially judge things on appearance and price... Not me.....

You dont need money at all.... You need creativity and trust in your ears.....