A Story about a Defective Signature Platinum


Last week I was listening to music at a healthy volume while sitting at my computer. I have an auto lifter (Little Fwend) and after the arm lifted I noticed a static noise with occasional popping coming out of the left channel about 40 dB down. At first I thought it was a bad tube but it disappeared when I turned the volume down. It is in front of the Preamp. None of the other sources had the noise. Swapping tonearm cables did not seem to change the sound but then I noticed that the sound was also in the right channel just farther down. Disconnecting the tonearm stopped the noise. I change over to an MC Diamond, no noise. Same with the Atlas, no noise. Swapped back to the MSL, noise is back.

The cartridge is exactly one year old but it rotates with two other cartridges and might have 75 hours on it. I called the dealer who told me to contact MoFi distribution, the US agent for MSL. Turns out the cartridge only has a 90 day warranty and I was told I would have to send it in for a rebuild for $6000! Can't they just fix the problem for maybe $500, No. Can't I just send it in for evaluation?  The stylus and cantilever are brand new. No, a rebuild is the only option and you have to do that through the dealer, click!  Most very expensive cartridges have a 2 year warranty on them not to mention that most companies would cover such a defect even off warranty as in the absence of physical damage it is obviously a manufacturing defect, a bad solder joint or maybe just two wires rubbing together. This is very disappointing and as far as customer service goes Home Depot is better than MoFi, Sears is better than MoFi! MoFI is right up there with Anthem Blue Cross! The service rep could have offered to look into it. Maybe communicate with MSL and get their opinion. I am sure if MSL knew about it they would gladly fix it and actually be embarrassed. The Japanese are like that. There is no way I can find to get directly in touch with MSL.   

$6000 is not an option. I am not going to throw good money after bad. I am also not going to off a defective cartridge on someone else. I am going to take the cartridge apart and reflow the solder joints and make sure the wires are separated. If that doesn't fix it, it goes in the trash.

Mistakes and defects happen, it is what you do about them that counts. MoFi failed dismally in this regard. MSL makes a fine cartridge but I would only get another one if they changed agents and increased their warranty. Obviously, I will avoid buying any other MoFi products myself and warn others about their customer service. I have no further use for the dealer who did nothing to help. I have had superb service from Musical Surroundings, Soundsmith, B+H Photo and the Cable Company. All handled issues with ease. Has anyone else had trouble with MoFi? What companies have provided you with excellent service when the sh-t hit the fan?

 

 

128x128mijostyn

Showing 36 responses by mijostyn

@lewm 

That is my experience with the Japanese. They are honored that you have purchased their product and will bend over backwards making sure you are happy with it. My own perspective of them comes from purchasing woodworking tools. When it comes to edge cutting tools (planes, chisels and knives) and hand saws they handily make the best. This talent extends back to the manufacture of swords. Each tool (sword) is endowed with a spirit and given a name!  It is difficult to get the best tools and sharpening stones in the States. You have to develop a relationship with a store located in Japan. Fortunately, there is no protectionism when it comes to woodworking tools. 

@pindac 

It really distresses me that you do not know how to work with forceps under a dissection microscope. Tell me, Can you use a screwdriver? What about an adjustable spanner? They are safe to work with. You do not have to worry about any sharp edges. 

All the information, questions and responses in this thread have been appropriate, straight forward, well intentioned and very helpful with only one exception. Thank You all. 

The cartridge is supposed to arrive the day after tomorrow. I will let you all know the end of the story.

The 69 year old Buffoon.  

 

@mulveling 

Steve had to splice two of the wires to get them back to the pins which is tedious work. The wire is litzed which makes it even more fun. I suspect it took him at least two hours so I did not think $300 was all that unreasonable. $30 was return shipping and insurance. 

@lewm , @cleeds , @dogberry , @rsf507, ​​@thecarpathian , @drbond ​​@mulveling 

I wish to report that Jon Derda, VP of sales and marketing, MoFi Distribution has made a very convincing attempt at rectifying this situation. If the cartridge is not repaired he promises he will have it taken care of. In addition new rules have been set for the customer service department and he is having the warranty periods of cartridges reviewed with an eye towards increasing them to the industry norm. 

Time will tell, but I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Afterall, sometimes you don't know you have a problem til it "swims up and bites you in the ass." 

@lewm 

Tell me about it. 

@daveyf , @cleeds @dover  @mulveling @rsf507 @wrm57 

And to all involved. Jon Derda is insisting on sending me a check for $330.00  The Cartridge arrived back home today and sounds great, no noise noted. Jon Made sure I knew if the cartridge was not repaired he would take care of it. I will be watching the MSL website for the new warranty period and will report back.

If none of you responded to my post I have to assume I would have been ignored. The brisk response helped kick the brick upstairs to people who could remedy the issue not just for me, but hopefully for others that have MoFi soursed equipment and music that might develop a problem in the future. 

Cheers, The Buffoon. 

@daveyf 

I personally think that law suite was silly. I have the One Step 45 rpm Countdown to Ecstasy and I have to tell you, It is as good as vinyl can get. Am I going to jump on all the others available? No, The problem from my perspective is that all of these re-releases are available as Hi Res downloads for $18.00 which sound just as good or better in most cases. This is my third version of Countdown. I got it out of curiosity. If you want to demonstrate vinyls potential, you can't do much better. 

@cleeds 

I forgot to mention. Steve bends over backwards to make sure his client is happy. He showed me pictures of the completed repair and an ohm meter plugged into the individual inputs showing 1.80 ohms in each channel. I had the cartridge back in less than 2 weeks.  Thank you for the recommendation!

@cleeds 

Please don't waste your time responding to comments like that. chrisoshea would prefer we lived in a communist country where everyone is entitled to a $100 cartridge.

@karl_desch 

Good to hear. However, they make a good profit on these rebuilds. The rubber hits the road when there is no profit involved and they go out of their way to help a customer. 

One of the reasons rebuilds for Soundsmith cartridges are so inexpensive is they handle it directly without involving a middle man. Mr Lederman should serve as a model for the industry. I know it is nice to have local venders and they have to make a profit to survive, but...

@rauliruegas 

https://i.imgur.com/LFFl4hO.jpg  Hopefully this works. This is an AP view of a MSL Signature Platinum Stylus. You can tell it is a MSL cartridge because of the way the stylus is mounted, in a slot. 

@rsf507 

You see the grooves cut on each side? That is how you create a "microridge" stylus. The styluses on the more expensive cartridges are selected. They have a better polish and cut. 

@lewm 

Only you would think of something like that....gesundheit. 

@rauliruegas 

I had a Talisman S and liked it a lot. After a while one channel stopped working entirely, so I tossed it. I was not aware there were so many people out there that could have fixed it. The stylus was actually still in pretty good shape. The S stood for Sapphire cantilever. 

 

@rauliruegas 

Raul, your links are not working. I post the photos on Imgur which provides a link. This works every time.

@ml8764ag 

You can not compliment a Mexican. Next thing you know he'll be trying to take Texas back:-)

@dover 

I think the way the body of the cartridge was mounted to its headshell interface betrayed it. If I had the cartridge today I would try to do something to stiffen that junction. I bet that coloring you are hearing would disappear. If you would like to try it with the one you have, let me know.

@rsf507 

That is because the camera is not dead on. It is also possible there is not enough anti skate applied. To determine that angle you have to look at the bottom of the cartridge dead on off the record. 

@rauliruegas 

Sorry Raul. I tossed the cartridge when the left channel went dead. It was a sapphire cantilever and I believe it was a rod not a tube but I can not be sure. Peter Ledermann uses a ruby cantilever, a pretty red one. He makes a special version of the Sussurro called the Sussurro Gold. Some say it is his best cartridge. You should try it!

@ml8764ag 

I use a custom mounted Amscope laboratory USB microscope with a special PC program. A similar set up would cost you around $2500. The closest thing you could get to it ready made would be the WallyScope. 

@rauliruegas 

Here it the link to your pictures https://imgur.com/gallery/YbkY8Rp

That was D/C resistance not impedance. He only reconnected the wires. He did not touch the coils or anything else.

@lewm 

They are exactly equal and the cartridge sounds fine and the gain is exactly the same. (Transimpedance) 

@rauliruegas 

I missed that. The wife and I were away for our 35th wedding anniversary. I left the computer home, more important fish to fry, if you know what I mean:-) 

@ml8764ag 

Those magnifications are way beyond any lens like that. The other problem is you would never be able to hold the phone steady enough to get a picture or even get a small item in field. 

If you go to my virtual system page pull up the picture of my wall cabinet. To the left is a desk. On it you can see the horizontal microscope and the lighting source in their parked positions.  

As a final note on this thread I am pleased to report that MoFi did reimburse me for repair of the Platinum Signature cartridge in full.

@mulveling 

I would think the Air Tight is very representative. Same designer and builder. MSL probably makes more cartridges for other companies than they make for themselves. I would think that it is valuable and will soldier on with Matsudaira san's absence. 

@rauliruegas 

Yes, the Atlas SL is a more detailed cartridge with a better sense of the third dimension assuming you have a phono stage that can handle it's very low output. Most people should stick with the regular Atlas which I have not heard. The Signature Platinum will match up with just about any phono stage. 

@terry9 

Function and aesthetics always run together. The trick is making a functional object aesthetically pleasing. What will happen with an arm like that is everyone will think it looks like (insert any appropriate four letter word here) and have absolutely no interest in it regardless of how well it performs. Experimenting like this is a fun thing to do. If it is only for yourself and you do not care what it looks like then that is totally your prerogative. However, if I were an audiophile friend of yours, visited and saw that I would privately think you were nuts. What you see effects what you hear. 

@terry9 ,

Being a pioneer is fine and dandy, but there is an aesthetic element that you have to pay attention to. 

@terry9 

View this as a challenge. You have an idea which you have tested with a prototype now make it look good!

@terry9 

I would taper it like your other wands drilling out the inside so the is almost a constant wall thickness making it a little thicker at the back. I would put a Schroeder like head shell arrangement at the front. What are you doing at the back end of the arm, bearings and such?

I though the fibers were resin impregnated. The Schroder system does not have a head shell. It uses a mounting plate for the cartridge which makes it very easy to align. There are no additional connections. You have to pull the clips every time you change cartridges. There are not any connections at the bottom of the arm either. The outer sheath and shield are stripped back to expose the tonearm wires, a stunt you could do with the Universal if you so desired. 

@pindac 

Technically, the only near perfect tonearm wand does not exist, it can only be imagined.  I suppose Kuzma's Sapphire is as close as you can get in terms of stiffness and resonance. 

@rauliruegas 

For the substances in equal caliber that might be true but given the Sapphires much larger diameter and tapered form I highly doubt it for the tonearms. Don't worry I'm not about to buy a Sapphire arm. I have my own thing going and you are never going to believe it! 

@terry9 

Schroder solves that problem supplying cartridge mounting plates of three different masses. Generally tonearms like the Reeds that supply a range of wands have an additional connection at the wand's base, so in reality they are no different than SME style removable head shells. 

@terry9 

I can not discuss fine details until our patents are established. My son in law is a robotics engineer. His company makes the robots used in chip manufacture. His robots have to move in nanometer increments. We have designed what will be the the finest tonearm you can buy. It is a tangential tracker and the only mechanical connection between the arm and the greater world is the signal wire.

@lewm 

The only relationships to the Rabco are it is an electrically driven tangential tracker.

The current design is the first iteration and in some areas the materials are not established, like what we are going to use for the tonearm wand. Functionally we want it to run by remote control. It will go to the beginning of the record and cue it. At the end of the record it will pick itself up and return to the resting position. The drive is unaffected by level. We will use scaled down versions of the same electronics used to control the robots. Two problems remain. It is going to be a heavy arm, the question is how heavy. It might be heavy beyond all practicality which I doubt. It will certainly be too heavy for many turntables. The last question is how much. We have to get a rough idea of materials cost. Some of the arm is very new technology and the method of making some parts has yet to be decided. The arm might have to be priced beyond practicality. How many people are going to by a $400,000 tonearm? I would like to keep it under $50,000, the lower the better. 

Initially we plan to build 10 units. If they are well received we will look into building larger batches. 

The tonearm wand is pivoted in both horizontal and vertical planes. The vertical plane uses a needle bearing very similar to the 4 Points. The horizontal bearing is a very fine ball bearing race without a lubricant. It is limited to two degrees in either direction. The drive will be trained to lead the arm. It will remain perfectly tangential plus/minus a few seconds. There is no need to have more horizontal freedom. It will be neutral balance and the vertical bearing will hopefully be at or near record level. We have not decided on how to trim azimuth yet. We are hoping to be able to control VTA by remote control. We may have to knock off a lot of things to keep the price down. 

@terry9 

Patents are not much assurance that you won't be copied but it will be very hard to reverse engineer the arm. There are certain proprietary issues very difficult to figure out. This is very new tech. My son in law was showing me a CAD picture of his companies new device and my brain immediately flipped to TONEARM!

All of my great ideas did not get very far. One is actually marketed today. My partner, the one with the money got tired of paying patent attorneys. 10 year later up pops my design. This one is not going to be a huge money maker but it might lead to other audio related devices and electronics and give my son in law an opportunity to start his own company.   

@lewm 

Tis an art no doubt, but an expansive one. The Atma-Spheres cost me a hot tube and associated landscaping for a total of $75 K not including the Atma-Spheres. 

She's at it again with new windows, carpeting and an entirely new master bathroom. I should be able to get another amp and cartridge out of it.

@rdk777 

Yes it is.

I listed it as mint for two reasons. It meets US Audiomart's definition of "mint", I listed it for $1000 less than another MSL on the site, I am trying to attract customers and I plan on having personal full disclosure before the sale. I would never sell the cartridge without giving it's full history. It is operating perfectly normally and those photographs of the stylus were taken just before the listing and as you can see it is perfect. 

Why am I selling it? I like the Lyra Atlas SL and the Ortofon MC Diamond better. I have an opportunity to get a Hyperion MR at a great price and I have to cover the expense or my wife will kill me.  

@lewm @dogberry 

At this very moment I have 48 very hot tubes and one hot tub at exactly 104 degrees along with 3 inches of snow.

@thecarpathian 

Tell me about it. I'm in New Hampshire and I am about to go out and blow the driveway.