Pitch is an incorrect term unless there is no issue with speed.
Set your anti-skating to zero and add tracking force, every new cartridge must be used with slightly higher tracking force during warm-up period. Your tonearm must be parallel to the record. Check the tracking force with digital scale to make sure your VTF is correct. Grado cartridge does not skip, you can check with a test record. |
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I use professional Grado DJ200i cartridges for about 15 years with standard 47k Ohms loading (or with optional 100k Ohms loading). Tracking force is about 2g. The DJ200i model is equal to the Grado Black series as far as I know, but with different styli made for professional use (with higher tracking force). In the main system my reference Grado is rare XTZ model. Those cartridges are definitely not bright. Maybe your stylus is damaged? You can try another stylus, professional styli are compatible with your Grado too. If you want to use higher tracking force you can always buy DJ100i or DJ200i styli. |
@terrible I think you have no idea what you are doing. You have to learn the basics, find tutorial how to adjust and use a turntable and a cartridge, there are plenty if them on youtube. Learn and adjust by yourself!
Make sure your stylus is not defective, swap styli (not cartridges). If you can’t adjust one cartridge why do you think you need another cartridge?
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I put on the first pressing of Aretha Franklin Amazing Grace, and all along I found her pitch way higher, it was all too high pitched and uncomfortable. Seemed the bass had gone missing a little. On my Boulder 866, I could immediately hear the difference when the track was played through Roon. It was not as high pitched, thin as it sounded on analogue. Do you understand that talking about pitch of the notes you’re referring to the rotation speed of the platter ? The higher the speed the higher the pitch note. The pitch is correct at 33 1/3 and 45 rpm Some people don’t understand why there is a pitch control on High-End turntables. FOR EXAMPLE JVC/Victor engineers explained very well why there is a special pitch control on TT-101: "The pitch, "A" is standardized at 440Hz according to international standards, and is the standard for all western musical instruments. In other words, the tuning of all instruments of the orchestra is based on this pitch. But in reality, the basic tuning pitch of each orchestra differs due to the instrumentation and individual characteristics of each orchestra, as well as the personality of the conductor. The diagram shows such differences by orchestra. Most of the pitches range within +/- 6Hz of 400Hz. To reproduce these subtly different pitches, a quality turntable with highly accurate rotation is required. Another important requirement is the possibility of minute speed adjustment. If the speed of a turntable could be adjusted to the individual pitch used by an orchestra while at the same time remaining controlled by a quartz-locked servo system, the benefits of flexibility and precision would be significant from a musicological viewpoint. For this reason the TT-101 is equipped with built-in speed-control facilities which can adjust the pitch in 1Hz steps within a range of +/- 6Hz or 440Hz. The difference of pitches between master tape recorders and disc record cutting machines has been intentionally ignored before but now the speed of a record can be adjusted to match the original pitch of the orchestra, even if the master was recorded differently from the original performance. For example, a performance of the NHK Symphony Orchestra on the record can be adjusted to match the pitch of the same performance on a record by the London Symphony Orchestra, for the enjoyment of critical comparison." The "A" key of a piano in your home is usually tuned to 440Hz. When you practice the piano while playing back a record, you can adjust the pitch of the record, to be in perfect tune with your piano. |
The reason I am thinking of another cartridge like Nagaoka MP200 is because @mijostyn suggested maybe I should get something with 2g VTF. This could be the alternative to decreasing anti-skate. Tracking force DOESN’T MATTER at all. 1.5 or 2g is absolutely irrelevant, every cartridge has a range of tracking force to work with. You can’t damage Grado cart with its aluminum cantilever if your tracking force is slightly higher. Increasing tracking force to the maximum (within manufacturer recommended range) is normal for a new cartridge during suspension warm-up period (20-50 hrs). You need a digital scale to verify tracking force. As I told you before you can change just the stylus on your Grado, there are compatible styli to work with higher tracking force (if needed). But first of all: set your anti-skating to ZERO if your cartridge skip backwards, because this is the anti-skating force. And LEVEL your turntable platter. ALSO: You might have some dirt on your stylus tip and it can be a reason for skipping and bad sound, clean your stylus tip with stylus cleaning brush (dry) and use carbon-fiber brush to clean your records. Very low tracking force, too much anti-skating and dirty stylus can can your vinyl playback simply impossible. If your stylus is damaged buy another Grado stylus (it’s cheaper than new cartridge). |
With a Hi-Fi Test Record (I think you bought it) you will be able to adjust anti skating, you can also measure tonearm/cartridge resonance frequency (just read the manual for the test record). You need some anti-skating, but not higher than tracking force. However, when you set tracking force and anti-skating to zero, when your tonearm is balanced above the record, you can see if there is a force that still moves your arm backwards, if you see it then you must level your turntable feet properly. Ideally there should not be any anti-skating force when the arm is balanced above the record, you apply tracking force (check with digital scale) and anti skating later.
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@chakster Got what you are saying. Asking you or anyone familiar with Clearaudio Concept anti-skating, if the thick black mark on the larger circular mound, below the red mark, is anti-skating zero. Please check the image in the link:
https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME4SPVK
The red mark is anti-skating that is factory set up.
Well, if this is anti-skating under the plinth then it’s the worst anti-skating I have seen in my life. Not surprised you have a problem using it, it’s so inconvenient. You can try maximum and minimum to find out where the side force is canceled (when the arm is balanced without tracking force), you will see it, if the arm is balanced above the record (not moving to any side) then anti-skating is zero.
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Since platter level can affect anti-skating, it's important to do this first (Also buy a blank record to verify anti-skate response. I found that my Technics 1200G anti-skate dial is close to being accurate but very slightly over compensates). Anti-skating adjust with his Hi-Fi News Test Record |
If you need a proper turntable with VTA on the fly, detachable headshell on magnesium tonearm... look for brand new Technics SL1200G (or cheaper GR model) and don’t get the advice from a person who listens to his records with dust cover on :)
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They just about sell the turntable, they have no clue about things we are discussing here. One of the big reasons I have opted for SME is because the guys who sell it here are also the owners of SME. It’ll help in getting help on turntable issues.
Technics is about to buy and forget about troubles.
Find in your local Bollywood night club:)
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Don’t listen to people who destroy their records by not protecting them from dust.
@mijostyn If you can detect some dust let me know:
A typical "destroyed record" as I never used ultrasonic cleaners, I don’t wash records, I just buy them in perfect shape and I do not use dustcovers on my turntables. This rare record was made in 1980:
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The housecleaner is me, but can't stop with cartridges @mijostyn :)
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Buy a new stylus for your Grado, you can even find a better stylus and it will be an upgrade in sound quality.
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Why do you guys want me to buy a new Grado stylus. Are you assuming the stylus may be damaged? A few bounces across a record can damage a stylus is it. ? Thought it was made of tougher stuff. Though sound wise I don’t have an issue right now. I think a few more records down I’ll get a fairer idea.
You have no clue about condition of your stylus, you don’t have even a macro lens to check it (but actually you need a microscope to see it), you made claims many times how bad is the sound, your stylus has been used with the wrong tracking force and wrong anti-skating for some time. Every stylus have its life span, your stylus is elliptical and life span is short even at recommended tracking force.
If you are done with adjustment and everything is right then you can finally buy a new Grado stylus (it’s cheap as chips). You can even buy a better stylus from the next model (they are many options).
You even mentioned some new cartridge you want to buy, but actually all you need is a new stylus, not a new cartridge. Grado styli cost something like $150, some models like 8MZ, TLZ and XTZ with advanced profiles are the best and more expensive, but fully compatible with your cartridge body. New stylus from a higher model is a good upgrade for your cartridge. You can use old stylus for experiments (when you learn things how to adjust everything), when you're done and learned some lessons you can add new high quality Grado stylus.
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Spending $150.00 to retip a $250.00 cartridge seems a little nutty to me. Why not just wait and upgrade to a better cartridge? I had the $600.00 Grado and on certain records, it performed well above what one might expect for that price range. I started out with a Prestige and while it was free of listening fatigue, to me it sounded bloated. Audio Technica might be another good option.
It’s not a re-tip! Leave your re-tip for MC. Re-tip is a drop of glue around new stylus tip on old cantilever (if the origina stylus tip is worn or damaged).
I'm talking about original replacement stylus.
With MI/MM cartridges the stylus alone cost more than a cartridge body without stylus. Grado Black with the most expensive Grado XTZ stylus ($450 just for the stylus) will perform not like Grado Black anymore, it’s huge upgrade.
There are $70 styli from Grado too, but 8MZ, TLZ and XTZ are the best styli for Grado Glack,Blue,Green... series.
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chakster, so your saying that replacing the stylus with XTZ on a $200.00 Prestige cartridge will out perform a $600.00 Sonata?
I am not familiar with Sonata, but I have the original Grado XTZ, it was Joseph Grado signature model, his best cartridge in the 80's (the price tag on the box is $750, not cheap in the 80's).
Anyway, isn’t this the same service Soundsmith offers with there stylus and cantilever replacement?
Genuine replacement styli are always different from those parts assembled together by re-tippers, you can't get Grado cantilever/stylus from SoundSmith. It's not the same "service" because replacement stylus for Grado is user replaceable, anyone can buy instal (very easy).
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