I think that a good dac cannot be listen to...It disappears behind the music, and when you upgrade your system with new gear, or new tweaks, the music is always there and better than ever...But my dac is inaudible and like a magical ghostly hand that makes music more and more there with all my experiments and upgrade...It is like my dac does not exist... It is their analytical limitations that makes many dacs audibly present...If it is a TOTL dac it does not makes his presence audible on any count...Before my other dacs had a sound of their own and they were not to my liking...My actual dac has no sound of his that I can put my fingers on , and if he had one I dont know which it is because only the purest music comes trought it with each improvement in my audio system... I will not give his price because nobody will believe what I just said...It is a NOS dac, with the more minimalistic design possible then a low noise level...Upgrading it or replacing it horrify me, I plan to buy a second one to own it till death part us...Starting Point Systems nos battery dac for the curious one or those that because of lack of money dreams the impossible dreams...