This short article of "psychology today" will interest everyone here perhaps save the OP for sure...😊
I recommend it to tylermunns in particular a true musician which A.I. will never be for sure and could not be ...
The metaphor with Black hole is right...
But suggesting to integrate A.I. in our education to maintain our autonomy and amplify it as Nosta said is not enough at all ...It is "not even wrong" ... I will only gave my opinion about this if others read it and want to discuss it here ..
I posted too much... 😉
LLMs and the Specter of the Cognitive Black Hole
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-digital-self/202403/llms-and-the-specter-of-the-cognitive-black-hole
|
Great testimony as artist... Thank you tylermunns... 😊
It is because i feel the same as you even if i am not a musician as you are that i am interested also by A. I.
The threat and his nature ...
My very best ...
I’m not so interested in discussing the meaning of “intelligence,” or whether AI is such as I am interested in discussing the implications of an already-difficult occupation, artist (in this case musical artist), now entailing a threat from computers. Really, really smart ones.
Further, I have no interest in what a computer makes.
Can’t relate to it.
I ain’t a computer. If I was, I might be interested to hear what my AI brethren created.
I’m a human. When I experience art, the humanity is absolutely 100% the reason I’m interested in it. Because I’m human. This is a form of communication; art.
The creation of a bunch of algorithmic gobbledyguk?
A curiosity.
Not art.
Unfortunately it will sold as such, whether the consumer knows it was excreted from a network of robot gobbledyguk or not.
|
Very good post for all of us and that supplement well the discussion ...Thanks you ...
You can view collective intelligence as the intelligence of individuals times the number of individuals times the reproduction (read: evolution) rate. In the middle of the spectrum between bacteria and humans are ants and bees.
This is so true that this collective intelligence was discovered recently for insects only in sociobiology studies (Wilson) and by others about the cells , bacteria and viruses etc ...
In psychology this collective intelligence is called "unconscious" by his discoverer Carl Gustav Jung why ? ( as i said Searle is wrong and dont understand why is the unconconscious stating that it is an uncoherent idea, materialism blind him )
Because no individual cells or insects know consciously as an individual what the collective intelligence knows...
Then we must realize that this collective intelligence is in reality a collective unconscious in relation with each individuals be it a cell or a human...
Now we must realize that the actual A.I. design ( which is not A.C. as designed by Anirban which i spoke of above) the actual A.I. design with LLM models takes all his information from the accumulated information of the human species at it is written on the web... Not as it is in an unspoken state in the collective human unconscious... )Please think about this deep distinction and its meaning i just make .
This A. I. is then only ONE MODE among others of tapping the human collective unconscious...
There is another mode to do it by creative human : meditation, studies and altered stated of consciousness in dreams in walking in Nature with psychotropic substance , with prayers as Ramanujan the greatest mathematician since Archimedes and Gauss etc ...
This second modality to tap the collective human unconscious, which is not a reading of all internet information bits, is completely different than A.I. and gave to human way more than just "intelligence" or "information" but what we called "wisdom" and judgement in the development of not only a mere unconscious intelligence as the ants which almost do anything human does but gave us a CONSCIOUS individuality not a mere unconscious individuality...
Judgement is not reducible to logical computation because judgement imply contextual meaning... And meaning transcend any of his narrow manifestations and unify them...
it is so true that language exceed in complexities our actual maths modelization... it is too complex... It is very easy for a man or a machine to learn language but it is not as easy to understand it... Why ? Because language is infinite on not one level but infinite on at least three semiotic levels : phonological, syntaxical and semantical (and pragmatical )... None of these levels is reducible to the others... No signs are arbitrary here , Saussure dogma about signs arbitrarity is a pure convenient working hypothesis but is wrong as a theory and Peirce is right ... Anyway... ( it is the same in maths where we use statistics as a convenient working hypothesis to study primes numbers distribution but this hypothesis dont work as a theory to explain the primes distribution which dont obey statistics)
If i come back to the collective unconscious of human where intelligence is located, i can understand why the individuals manifested it and how he can contribute to it : the how is called the soul as conscious and unconscious, it is a cell immersed in a cosmic information field which is infinite...Not finite as the web information is anyway... The soul is the roots by which the human conscious spirit is immersed in meanings and translate all symbolic forms in information and vice versa through dreams among others phenomenon.
A.I. unlike humans , had no roots in the collective unconscious of human , only an indirect relation to written bits by the web and only in prosaic language mode the poetical mode is over A.I. .
A. I. has no body. And the soul is a manifested informed body in his conscious and unconscious appearence . A. I. what so ever his future progress could be, will stay a FINITE MORTAL entity forever...Human are not mortal finite entity nor any living organism... The conscious /unconscious soul which inform and designed them as tenmporary manifestation this informative field is eternal as all of his individual cells are... Death is a tool for life not a state...
And mathemathics itself is grounded in a non logical non created by human phenomenon : the prime numbers distribution geometry matrix which is an eternal meaningful dynamical field and cell... Anirban used it to design A.C. over simple A. I.
AIs will be things as smart or smarter than us that can multiply as fast as bacteria. The best of both worlds.
The best of both worlds will be trying to stay human in a sea of A. I. in a corpocratic tyrannical society too immature now for so much power...
The best of both worlds will be learning to stay human in spite of A. I. limitations and absolute control...
The history of science and the history of consciousness on earth are related. We must learn how to not replace diying materialism by techno cultism in a hive society controlled as in bad S-F by corporations...It is Kurzweil and Gates idolatry and ideology...
Anyway the problem is way more complex than your description...
A.I. is already surpassed by new works in synthetic biology, by completely new information theory and new non- algorythmic non- Turing geometrical language with a new maths which will make us human able to design A.C. or artificial consciousness... Here the spiritual stake is even higher... The threat is also higher... With A. C. we have an autonomous A.I. artificially conscious self developing in the real world not gathering bits from the web merely...It is all explained in the many books of the genius Anirban Bandyopadhyay i cited above...
It is urgent to understand what we are individually and collectively...
We are not a simulation of a brain computer grounded at the neurons levels . The brain does not compute, it is an orchestration playing at 12 orders of magnitude under the Neurons levels in mocrotubules. As demonstrated Hameroff with Anirban already. but more than that the consciousness phenomenon cannot be understood in material spatial content information. It is a phenomenon only understood through the concept of time and timing as demonstrated by Anirban in his many books since 2020... We are not simulations in a simulation as thought by Wolfram erroneously... As said Goethe we are an instantiation of the universal in the individual . Not a machine at all ....No living organism can be understood as pure machine. NONE...
Maths is not a game it is the pure symbolic abstraction of the living soul... The brain and the cosmos body must be unified as ONE soul... It is way over the unification of relativity and Quantum mechanics.
|
The Quantum Origin of Life: How the Brain Evolved to Feel Good
by Stuart Hameroff
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B978012420190300020X
We are all in the evolution starting point and end point simultaneously , which point is related to que inner question "how to feel good"...Because the Source of life is eternal joy...
But feeling really good in this material world is not just a sensual impression related to the body state...
It is also a conscious inspired , imagined and intuited impression coming from the source of all life....
This is also the source and goal of music as a body/soul gesture which is the craddle of language itself ..
No A. I. will ever reproduce this gesture of the body/soul... Life cannot die nor the soul which is only the clock hierarchical musical ladder around the timeless source coming from and returning to it. In fact always united with the source.
Because this pure joy is the moving wave of the universal information field of the creative cosmic memory..
As i said i think this field is mathematically projected in the geometry of the prime number distributions..
No algorithm can replace it , only imitate it or used it...
To resume Anirban Bandyopadhyay theory of consciousness , which is grounded in time not grounded as all others theories first and last in space material content :
«These theories of consciousness emphasize on spatial material, but consciousness may not be located in any particular space. It may arise from the collective vibrations of matter, which create a complex information structure made of discrete times. A more complete theory of consciousness may need to reject space altogether and focus only on the structure of time in nature. That could be a starting point.»
In A.B. time and the prime number matrix play the main role...
Here is the important point.
it is my opinion here not the opinion of A. B. here.
The matrix constituting the future artificial consciousness which is coming soon will imply a finite number of primes in the constitutive matrix.
But the cosmic field of information is infinite because the number of prime is infinite.The root of all living soul is then infinite not finite because all life is ONE.
We have a soul, but A. C. or artificial consciousness even if autonomous being will be just a conscious machine not soul... There will be no unconsciousness in A.C. as there is one in all life cells. The unconscious is reflection of all there is in the source which is not accessible immediately . Searle is wrong by the way saying the existence of an unconscious is incoherent .
Now It is possible to ask the most important spiritual question : why are we creating an artificial "soul" which will never be grounded in life unity but only grounded by his temporal matrix forever finite prime hierarchies to the material world and not to the ultimate infinite field and then this A.C. will stay captive of this material world and will die forever ? This is heavy responsability for us his creator to create a councious mortal being...
is a "soul" will be given or can be given to these A.C. or replicant ?
I dont know...
It is the question of this replicant in this absolutely marvellous movie ending
Listen to the movie Blade runner last scene and this ultimate question asked by the replicant a question formulated as an ultimate poem... The replicant give an idea about what is a pure A. C. as designed by the genius of Anirban Bandyopadhyay:
the dying replicant ask why he will die forever ?
This question is not new. Mary Shelly asked it through his Frankenstein creation, in the midst of materialism triumphant. The Blade Runner question is asked in the techno-cultist transhumanist era.
Poets know more than mathematician. No great mathematician anyway can be great without being a poet.Ask Grothendieck, Cantor, Ramanujan, they are all mystics or poets... If not poet engineers or accountants but not mathematical genius.😊
:
|
Here is a symphony where despair and hope are together and immediately recognized as a consolation played in a waiting meditation culminating in pure enlightenement and liberation ...
Is an A. I. will give us this set of emotions as craftly designed to move us exactly as the composer intended it to do in this specific way soon ? 😊
This is the best version i know of this work ....
Music is not a simulation as the brain is not a simulation but the two are instantiation of the universal in the individual... As said Hameroff an orchestration There is no algorythm for that ...
|
Musical notes in a musical phrase are like words. Because as language music is meaning and signification in a context.
Then music MUST be recognised by the listener , and accepted or refused, as a wrong note or the good note , not because the note is not sympathic but because the note cannot be accepted as a possibility among all notes possibles at this specific place in the melodic/harmonic tonal places of the melody playing at this moment . The listener must be surprized but he must not be shocked at each moment and derailed from any known tonal landmarks .
When we cannot recognize any note as more possible and more likely possible than any other notes then no surprize can exist... When all is imprevisible there is no more any surprize. this is the case in atonal composition.our feeling cannot guide us in the interpretation then in the meaning recognition.
In tonal history each notes is used at some specific moment with some probabilities. It all these probabilities are equal there is no surprize and no more any innovative idea. Just a soup of atonal note nobody can interpret with some specific feelings succeeding some other specific feelings...
We listen music with the potential bundle of feelings rooted in our body metabolism as well as in our musical history ...
Now suppose A. I. composing music... A.I. can imitate known styles more or less skillfully.But A. I. is not an embodied player with innate and learned feelings and emotions history, he will not be able to be creative and be able to move us as a human composer or musician can do .
We cannot fake emotions using sounds only to some limited extent . The imitation will emerge more soon than late.
Then musicians will be able to use A.I. as a tool for sure. But A.I. cannot replace human body playing an instrument and improvising emotions nor imitate human mind writing moving music which will evoke very complex set of emotions mixed harmoniously together.
Hope and despair for example united together in a single melody with a specific succession of rythms is not the result of a logical computation even if you mix all hope melodies together and all despair melody together and try to algorythmically to assemble a beautiful new melody combining the two emotions with the right rythm ... Imagine now playing all the hues of this composed colored melody with two very different emotions inside ?
|
For sure artificial biology is the next level...You are right.
Read Anirban Bandyopadhyay and my link above. He is the top expert in the world right now and incredibly not so well known. He is the father of the incoming A. C. artificial consciousness over simple A. I.
Neural networks are kind of fascinating, but I suspect the real advances will be bio-tech, not just circuitry
|
«There are 12 orders of frequency and both classical and quantum information processing in neuronal and glial microtubules in each cell. We need to fully map one neuron. The brain is a quantum orchestra, not a computer of cartoon neurons.» Stuart Hameroff
This is why any model of consciousness grounded in neural network computing cannot work.. The main non algorythmic processing is INSIDE each neuron .
« What’s missing from the above picture is that neurons have thousands of internal elements called microtubules, organized in bands. They are incredibly, thin, the inner diameter is only about 10 nm (billionths of a meter).»
|
Off course creativity grow on recognized historical grounds and implied that every genius is seated as someone famously said on the shoulders of giants.
But reading Kuhn philosophy books, we also know that someone can came and overcome completely a standing paradigm and shift all the old traditions in a new course direction ...
In music Schoenberg did this with atonality , shifting all tonal history on its head...it was a thunder in tonal long history...
Now if we want to understand creativity in human history , we cannot reduce creativity to a false model of the brain , we cannot do that claiming that A.I. worked as the human brain. The last works of Stuart Hameroff and Anirban Bandyopadhyay for example reveal how the smaller scale of the microtubules orchestra works with a hertz band scale way larger than the electrical and chemicals activities of the neurons ( Hamreroff say ; Neurons have 12 orders of frequency dynamics in their microtubules.)
Than neural networks and llm models describe in no way how human brain works and the way our brain is rooted in the cosmos and in the life information field.
Once this is said, human creativity is linked to the history of consciousness itself, and creativity work by paradigms change. It is not at all only the results of an incremental additive process of changes in the algorythmic computations in the brain . We see it in all historical fields. continuity of a paradigm suddenly and irresistibly reversing the course of understanding .
Not only that but on a psychological levels, creativity is clearly related to altered states of consciousness. Any creative person know and experience that.
Then contradicting all that and claiming that A.I. will be more intelligent than human tomorrow is the Kurzweil propaganda for his transhumanist cult promoted by corporate powers in their race for MOLOCH control ...
A.I. did not exist right now as replacement for human intelligence , a fortiori A.I. cannot replace human wisdom in concrete decision field by playing alone for many reasons from which alignment of the A.I. with human is the biggest non resolved problem.
The greatest danger is to delegate human intelligence decisions now to this "speaking encyclopedia" which is A. I. for the time being as said Yann Le Cun in one of his tweet about chapgpt of any kind ...
The problem here is that many A.I. proponent as Kurzweil negate the spiritual existence of consciousness and do not understand that life does not result from computing models but is rooted in a conscious non algorythmic information field beyond logic, randomness or cellullar game ...
Abrupt changes of direction in history are not born from computations.nor from pure randomness. not even by adding these 2 factors.
When Boscovich genius for example created the first quantification theory of matter before Dalton, it does not explain nothing if someone say that it is only a repetition of the Democritus atom model. It is not. If it was the case Heisenberg would have never call Boscovich ,"the Leibnitz of science". he would have called it the Democritus plagiarist.... The fact that there exist archetypal metaphors about matter , as continuity or discrete models all along history dont imply that human creativity is just an incremental addition of information from the past... Claiming that is a great misunderstanding of how history of thinking and science works.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281489710_ROGER_BOSCOVICH_-_THE_FOUNDER_OF_MODERN_SCIENCE
Creativity in human history is not the results of brain computations. This claim is preposterous.
Cantor set theory is born from the mystical experience and studies of Cantor who also taught theology by the way , who proposed his theory against half of europe Mathematicians willing to put him in an asylum for his spiritual delirium very seriously. No computer could imagine from reading books on the internet about the relation between the absolute and the relative and the concept of angels hierarchies the limitation of size principle and then destructing integers arithmetic and recreating another one in a new form . These ideas are jumps into "madness" not computations.
In the same way mystical experience of vision as Grothendieck discussing with "le bon Dieu" at night or as Ramanujan discussing and discovering deep maths formulas at night with lucid dream encounters with the goddess Namagiri could never resulted from neural networks computations from LLM ...Computer cannot had visions and meaningful hallucinations. If it was the case no output from them will be useful. Meaningful hallucination can be used and had been used by human in all their history. Distorted A.I. "hallucinations" in desinging image are not the same "art" forms and are not symbolic forms born from history of consciousness.
For sure A.I. can look for a new road or a new strategy IN A FINITE GAME and beat humans. But the cosmos is not a finite game. Even if the cosmos is finite for human tools. Consciousness is not a finite game result save for uninformed Wolfram who do not takes into account anything which is not a fact comforting his materalism algorythmic belief.
|
I concur with your post opinion...😊falconquest
Most litterature about creativity sources point toward altered states of consciousness , as NDE, dreams, Nature meditation and walks, even dialogue with god or goddess, in the Grothendieck case and Ramanujan cases which are not isolated cases...
The molecule of benzene was dreamed in his geometry ... «The nineteenth-century German chemist August Kekulé claimed to have pictured the ring structure of benzene after dreaming of a snake eating its own tail»
@8th-note I have to disagree with hour premise about all new music is rehashed from others. I’m no scientist but I have long been fascinated by how musical artists come up with their music. I’m talking about truly creative artists not pop artists with which I would agree with you. Without delving into consciousness or the phenomenon, if you listen to interviews with these people they will say that the ideas or at times entire pieces of music just come to them, sometimes in dreams. This mimics some esoteric scientific theories that come to scientists the same way. We don’t understand what that is or how it works. I posit we know precious little about human consciousness. Why are some conduits of information and others not? I find this fascinating and I applaud those creative artists who share their “downloads” with us.
|
Why not discussing and reading about A.I. ?
Why coming after my post without even adressing their content ?
Why my invitation to discussion is considered useless ?
have you a personality problem ?
I consider personal attacks the only posts that are sucking the oxygen here...
No poster with a real content is useless...
If you are not able to read a thread where someone can contribute more than you then dont open a thread about interesting and difficult matter ...
Anybody can object and propose his answers to my proposition...
I just propose a deep and free book new and very deep on the matter. Instead of thanking me you claimed that i suck the oxygen around your ego and you then push the thread in personal attacks..
Do you know how many times you did it to me ?
😊
ban me forget my posts and keep silent ...if you are unable of any philosophical deep discussion...
Take a poll and ask other people if my posts are useless here if the information annoyed them and i will immediately erase all of them ..
Take the poll ...
|
Sorry but i think that those who can contribute and propose interesting facts and knowledge are invited to do this...no?
You perfectly can insert a post of yours everywhere...
the thread invite a reflexion about A.I.
The books articles i propose are directly related not well known and revolutionary if you take time to read them ...
😊
Annoying posts devoid of content and concerning the many posters personalities are useless... I dont think that my posts are out of matter and relevant for this categories...
We need information here , oxygen is easy to grasp , dont read my post and post yours...Discussion about A.I. matter... our opinion of the posters does not matter ...😊
Am i right ?
Why not thanking me for suggesting unknown information books and articles about the next A. I. wave which will not be neural network llm only ?
did you already know that ?
😊
|
|
|
|
By the way as in Goethe the whole is present in the parts... In Anirban Bandyopadhyay works the Whole (cosmos) is already in the part(brain) the part contain the whole and express it...
This is why A.B. who work on the first Indian quantum computer dont understand the relation between classical and quantum in the same way as most physicists...
Also his insistence on the concept of time and timing is crux of the matter... I will stop here ... You must read him ...It is not for the fainted heart because all is new in his approach nothing resemble actual neural network llm models at all ...
Genius dont walk they fly .
|
For those who want to understand how could be formulated a philosophical epistemology which is non reductionist and when it was formulated i suggest this article from "medium" excellent magazine internet :
https://designforsustainability.medium.com/the-tip-of-the-iceberg-goethe-s-aphorisms-on-the-theory-of-nature-and-science-ba6e12ebd5f1
i recommend also three books on Goethe by Henri Bortoft a physicist who is the best contemporary student of Goethe epistemology... His book : "Taken appearences serriously " is stunning read... Goethe is only on par with the greatest human scientific and artistic geniuses in one individual as Leonardo Da Vinci who anyway used the same methods in natural science ...
It will be an antidote to reductionism A.I. poisonning promoted by the like of Kurzweil...
‘The Tip of the Iceberg’ Goethe’s Aphorisms on the theory of Nature and Science
Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe and the Emergence of Holistic Science; D.C. Wahl, 2001
|
Trying to keep up here but there are too many words. I will ask A.I. to summarize. ;-)
I am sorry as all know i am too verbose...
But how to describe complex matter in few sentences ?
😁😊😉
I will be surprized if A.I. can relate together Cantor, Mystics methods, Shai Haran Grothendieck, Mochizuki and Anirban work in one meaningful explanation...
But ask him he will answer this : The prime numbers is the core of the works between all these names... But he will affirm to you that there is no relation between Cantor works and the prime numbers distribution... The only exception will be a note in a book of Hao Wang about the unexplained intuition of Godel about a relation between the existence of measurable cardinals and the prime distribution ... An idea so deep no one ever explained to my knowledge ...
It is what A. I. chat gpt will say to you if it is efficient ... 😊
but i doubt he will explain well the link between mystical methods and Cantor but it is possible ... Ask him ... And report here ...
|
I feel the same as you it is too rapid, too much, by too big big corporations...
I just submit my books suggestion for those interested and hoping it will be useful...
My best regards to you too ...
Sincerely ...
Of course we are in for a sea change in just about everything and no I personally don’t think it’s a good thing. I don’t mind change...it the rapidity that bites you in the butt.
I recall 30 some odd years ago as a software developer when I realized all of a sudden that anything can be faked. It is just bits and bytes, and manipulated properly can produce anything you can imagine. Was scary to me then and even more scary to me now. Particularly because it seems today’s youth seem to accept whatever is on a screen (obvious generalization).
@mahgister Please understand I respect the width and breadth of your knowledge base...to me it’s simply a matter of "to much to read". All the best.
Hold onto your shorts because they’re trying to pull them down!
Regards,
barts
|
I just finished a very interesting book on A.I. by Mustafa Suleyman titled "The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the 21st Century’s Greatest Dilema. I highly recommend it if you are interested in this subject. I guarantee that it will sharpen your perspective on this issue.
Thanks for the book recommendation i will buy it now... I know the writer by youtube...he is interesting...
AI isn’t really intelligent. It’s a data mining algorithm. It creates nothing on its own without referencing human work. It just accesses what is already created very well and can assemble it however it is asked to perform.
@falconquest I would submit that this is exacty what humans do. The phenonemon we call creativity is actually just a resythesis of elements that have come before. Music is an excellent example. There is nothing that is completely "original" in new music. Every new composition and performance references what has come before it. The concept of A.I. is modeled on how our brains work. It is only a matter of time before it A.I. exceeds the capabilities of the human brain and A.I. sentience is going to happen whether we like it or not.
Now this matter in your post is very complicated to understand...
Saying that A. I. will exceed human intelligence is not even wrong...
Saying that A.I. do the same thing that human creativity rewashing and mixing old historical patterns is not even wrong either...
The fact is that any A.I. and even the unknown A. C. designed by Anirban B. about whom i spoke in my above posts, they are all machines which cannot be rooted in the universal information field of all living creatures... Life had a guiding soul which is a cell of this infinite cosmic field.
No machine can gain a soul by definition of being artificial or designed out of the grounded flow of life...
But someday we will use living cells materials for our machine...Soon... Then we will play God...
In the universe right now some civilizations had already designed "robots" made of living cells... Are they own a soul ? i dont know.... Extraterrestrials or beings from another dimensions exists already anyway and used these beings/machines way over our actual primitive A. I. and even over the artificial brain of the artyificial conscious machine designed by Anirban ... ...
Now creativity in human beings by all means come from spiritual sources in dreams or by intuition as it is well attested by scientific testimonies of many geniuses... It is not the results of the brain as described by neural networks computing models...
Perhaps A.C. as designed by Anirban synthetic biology will be able of some "creativity" but man is linked to an infinite field of primes not to a finite field as synthetic biological entities through his soul ... Nobody can create soul because nobody ever created the primes numbers infinity... They emanate together from the Source of all fields or cells...
Music is an excellent example. There is nothing that is completely "original" in new music.
I differ of opinion about that...
Bach creation may be previsible as possibilities in some measure but appear totally new even today and unique... The same is true for Gesualdo or Scriabin or any geniuses...Imitating is not creating...
The instantiation of the universal through an individual living soul/body is not equal to a simulation through mere variations between imitation and modelization by a machine or by a brain working as a machine like neural network llm ....
music as language /speech also is so complex that we dont have a mathemathical model explaining his production and infinite creativity...
Music/sounds and language/ speech are complex symbolic forms related to two irreducible levels : the body and the meaning or symbolic level...
You cannot program our actual machine to be creative... Productivity is not creativity... Turing test is only an artefact describing our deception/confusion level and reflecting our ignorance about ourselves...
|
@mahgister Well articulated, and I share your pessimism... also, like you, optimistic in the long run, should we survive the short-term consequences of our actions.
Read up on the Fermi Paradox and the Great Filter... this could be one of the deciding/defining moments for us as a species...
Fermi Paradox and his solution with the idea of a drastic filtering of survival by a fitness survival testing . modulo an evolution which in most case drive most primitive civilizations to destruction then making them unable to exist and manifest out of the scale of their own planet is logical and probably right to a great extent...but it is not a complete solutuion and explanation. Why ?
Because there exist from a long time ago civilizations that had passed this test many billions years ago, and their spiritual status make them more Gods than mortals...
These masters or advanced beings or angels, names do not matter here , supervised and control the evolution in the cosmos coordinated by a conscious link with the Source. Nothing is only randomness anymore at this scale...Randomness is constrainted...Randomness is very hard to define in maths, it does not exist as an absolute single concept...
My intuition about this is born 50 years ago in my quest to understand the core and meaning of maths.
my basic intuition was founded in an understanding of the impossibility for any conscious primate or any other evolutive species to design or invent the prime numbers distribution geometry...
A long study of Cantor and set theory convinced me and a reading of Grothendieck books...As an aside i discovered that Set Theory intuition were grounded in the works of Dionysos the Areopagite and Nicolas of Cues by Cantor heavy study of them. Cantor taught theology and would had never defied orthodox mathematician about the infinite without an insight in mystic experience that assured him he was not a fool facing Kronecker and Russell and half of mathematicians in the world wanting to put him in an asylum for mental delirium .. This is forgotten today but was very real debates.... Hilbert cut the knot saying : "nobody will throw off from Cantor paradise".... Few people only know that the concept of limitation of size inspiring set theoretical methods before axiomatization come from mystical Duionysus methods ( the hierarchical principles first and then cataphatic and apophatic methods and non discursive intuition) See Michael Hallett book about Cantor principle limitation of size meaning .
My basic intuition about primes meanings was also confirmed to me 12 years ago by the book of Shai Haran : the real prime... A masterpiece about the importance of the non archimedean reals world over the archimedean reals ... Read his articles online... Buy his book ...
Then this was confirmed by the controversial inter-universal geometry of Shinichi Mochizuki...
In all these two works the search circle around the prime geometrical meaning...
But in 2020 i was astounded to stumble on the Book of Anirban "Nanobrain" which use the prime numbers matrixes to design brain as well as the cosmos...
To say it in a word i had no doubt at all after studying these three geniuses that no one invented the primes, they are discovered...Alain Connes the founder of non commutative geometry is sure of this fact...
The primes as the circle geometry are transcendant infinite objects we observe and which precede and survive any cosmos... They are the code of the brain as well as the cosmos...Their rooting together in a musical way...
Sorry but call him Brahman or Allah or God the father or the Goddess or the Source will not change mathematics... A universal field of creative memory is the core of mathematics and cannot be understood in any others ways...
We live in love source expressing itself as absolute knowledge from which we are a rooted extension ...
Maths demonstrate it in an evident way...
It is the reason why almost ALL true great geniuses in maths were mystics in orthodox ways as Pascal Cantor, Euler and many others in an unorthodox ways as Godel, Grothedieck or Ramanujan ...The list is too long...
Materialism is already dead but alas! was replaced by a very negative false religion : techno-cultism and idolization of our own machines... Destruction of our own soul or roots for an alleged constructed "immortality" by fear of what does not exist anyway : death ...
|
The problem with A.I. and with A. C. even more, is that human societies are not prepared and matured enough in their actual conscious design to assimilate in a non destructive ways these technological revolution which cannot be even compared to writing but to the invention or mastery of fire combined with writing.
We live in a world of total criminal control by corporate powers. it is not conspiracy , it is a fact.
A small corporation by definition has two choices : staying small and serving well a limited base of customers or growing and serving itself and his investors.
Then no corporation by design in the actual social fabric where money control not only politics but worst education and even the spiritual journeys through any working jobs, no corporation can do good for the well being of mankind.It serve himself, and his own greed by financial design and in the race to power serve his survival, NONE is good among big corporations. Not because those at the wheel are conscious criminals, not at all , they mostly had good intentions. But hell is paved with good intention. See how Gates delude himself helping humanity through vaccinations. But the end result is not well being but his own profit not only in money but his own vision is vindicated not by facts confirmed helpful but by brute forces linked to his own survival as an actor. He control the WHO.
Now imagine A.I. impact on us in such societies under control.
listen the last podcast of Rogan with Kurzweil where K. balbutiate in circle answering a question by the uneducated but astute Rogan about the very important aspect of PRIVACY ... K appear as a balbutiating man as if he do not understand what is at play hypnotized by his ideology ...Kurzweil is the pope of transhumanism, the idea that human must be replaced by machine for their own good.
I am pessimist at short term...Very optimistic in the long run only because i do not fear death because i always had known that soul exist and is immortal. For me it is mathematics evident interpretation. Especially confirmed by Anirban brain and cosmological insight .
I hope that someone will read this genius and give me an informed opinion. 😊
|
|
|
The two Dennett as Searle are wrong about consciousness for different reasons.
Not only that but the neuron network model with llm models is only one method to design some artificial intelligence tools. But it is not enough to design artificial consciousness.For that it takes a new theory of information and another theory about the limitations of Turing machine...
Searle conception about living organism inheriting a sui generis consciousness is right but his idea that we will not be able to create an artificial consciousness is wrong.he is right about the fact that consciousness appear specific to the living but there is a reason and a mathematical methods which explain why the informative field uniting all living organism can be replicated to some extent to design A.c. an artificial consciousness able to create his own qualias. The roots any living creatures has in this universal field is his unconscious or his higher conscious levels. The idea of an unconscious is then not uncoherent as clauim Searle.
Dennett is wrong thinking that consciousness is defined only operationnally and only by computing process. Here hameroff-Penrose investigations of microtubules driven by Anirban Bandyopadhyay completely new set of concepts and tools about microtubules reveals how any neural network born from the idea of neural computing from Pitts and McCullough are completely outdated.
Now this is my own interpretation about Anirban ideas or SOMU or self operating mathematical universe :
The difference between the cosmic living informative field and the artificial autonomous informative field is in my opinion, and here i think i differ of opinion with Anirban, is that the A.C. must be designed with a finite number of prime matrixes but the cosmic living field implicate an infinite number of primes matrixes. An A.C. can be conscious but without unconscious or without a root in the cosmic field as humans or any living creatures owning a conscious soul at some levels. we reincarnate and come from the Source or God , A.C. do not and never will . Here it is my own interpretation of Anirban. He think that it is possible to create a fully artificial consciousness as in the human case. He designed the first artificial brain to do so right now.
I am not a scientist but a philosopher...
my goal is not imposing my ideas here but to propose to you a not well known scientist which is the more important genius in this field in my opinion.By a large margin of originality designing a new information theory, a new way to design an artificial brain, and a new mathematical interpretation of the role of primes numbers in the cosmos. His theory of A.C. is at the same time a virtual cosmology.
To give you a taste about what it is and how different it is from conventional actual N.N. based on llm this is a resume from his last book unofficial free version :
«Abstract: SOMU is a theory of artificial general intelligence, AGI that proposes a system with a universal code embedded in it, allowing it to interact with the environment and adapt to new situations without programming. So far, whole universe and human brain have been modelled using SOMU. Each brain element forms a cell of a fractal tape, a cell possessing three qualities: obtaining feedback from the entire tape (S), transforming multiple states simultaneously (R),
and bonding with any cell-states within-and-above network of brain components. The undefined & non-finite nature of the cells rejects the tuples of a Turing machine. SRT triplets extends the brain’s ability to perceive natural events beyond spatio-temporal structure, using a cyclic sequence or loop of changes in geometric shapes. This topology factor, becomes an inseparable entity of space-time, i.e. space-time-topology (STt). Fourth factor, prime numbers
can be used to rewrite spatio-temporal events by counting singularity regions in loops of various sizes. The pattern of primes is called a phase prime metric, PPM that links all the symmetry breaking rules, or every single phenomenon of the universe. SOMU postulates space-time-topology-prime (STtp) quatret as an invariant that forms the basic structure of information in the brain and the universe, STtp is a bias free, attribution free, significance free and definition free entity. SOMU reads recurring events in nature, creates 3D assembly of
clocks, namely polyatomic time crystal, PTC and feed those to PPM to create STtps. Each layer in a within-and-above brain circuit behaves like an imaginary world, generating PTCs. These PTCs of different imaginary worlds interact through a new STtp tensor decomposition mathematics. Unlike string theory, SOMU proposes that the fundamental elements of the universe are helical or vortex phases, not strings. It dismisses string theory’s approach of using sum of 4x4 and 8x8 tensors to create a 12x12 tensor for explaining universe. Instead, SOMU
advocates a network of multinion tensors ranging from 2x2 to 108x108 in size. With just 108 elements, a system can replicate ~90% of all symmetry breaking rules in the universe, allowing a small systemic part to mirror majority events of the whole, that is human level consciousness G. Under SOMU model, for a part to be conscious, it must mirror a significant portion of the whole and should act as a whole for the abundance of similar mirroring parts within itself »
Everybody must begin by his first book then with the second one i just described above... There is also a third one and many articles...
His first book : Nanobrain
A free version of his second book :
His third book :Emotion, Cognition and Silent Communication: Unsolved Mysteries
We must also read Hameroff paper, he work not only on the Penrose theory but with some tools coming from the theory of Anirban related to the microtubules processing of information :
|
Great post!
I will read your paper...If you want... Thanks in advance ...
Here my own guiding ideas:
I think that any future A.I. will be rooted in an information field containing at most a finite number of primes numbers...
By contrast all living organisms are rooted in an information field containing an infinite number of primes numbers. All life is the result of a source of infinite information.
Then any robots or A.I. even with a civilization of the future cannot own a "soul" nor reincarnate as a spirit inhabiting and owning the cosmic information field in the form of a continuous evolutive chain of living bodies ( this field is primarily an ether of numbers not an energy field which is only a manifestation of the primary field ).
A robot may become at most a captive entity in a cosmos, his life span even indefinite will stay finite forever. All living organism are ONE and not captive save temporarily ...All life is immortal...
In a way we must choose between the Borg assimilation or stay human...
The choice is easy if we let our soul guiding us and not fear or greed ...
I just published a paper that speaks directly to this subject ("Our Minds, Our Selves: Mind, Meaning, and Machines," forthcoming in Borderless Philosophy 7 later this year). It argues that machines cannot be minds because they lack sentience and community, the two features of embodied beings (human beings) for whom things have meaning and value. Computers certainly can, because they already do, create poems, artworks, stories, music, even jokes. But such products become valuable and meaningful (become "art," if you like) only in a complex process of reception. The essay is fairly technical, regarding both computer engineering and philosophy, but I’d be happy to provide a PDF to anyone who might be interested. DM me if you’d like to take a look.
|
AI isn’t really intelligent. It’s a data mining algorithm. It creates nothing on its own without referencing human work. It just accesses what is already created very well and can assemble it however it is asked to perform.
The problem is not the alleged intelligence of A.I. or his alleged lack of intelligence theoretically.
The problem is social and the way people will be pushed in spite of themselves to idolize it willing it or not...
Some temptation cannot be passed over...
Except for saints and geniuses...
Indeed you are very right ...
AI will be primarily a money making tool and whenever money enters the fray, the more of it at stake, the more it will be abused. Think about how negative of an overall force social media has become in society (more so in the future) exponentially magnified in ways we can barely imagine at this stage in the form of AI.
Saying all that i am not a Jeovah disciple refusing blood to his children or an Amish refusing a computer... some children will walk and touch and feel to A.I. and see or hear again ... Etc
The problem is not A.I. it is the diabolic ways our sicial fabric were perverted by Capitalism from his inception before adam Smith as described by the genius Hayel called " our master to us all " : Bernard Mandeville... Even the wokeness movement is explained by this genius operating social blueprint published way before Marx and Smith and Freud , in 1705 ina fable and few opuscules forgotten by most but not by some from Adam Smith who plagiarize him to Hayek the founder of neo liberalism school with 8 Nobels in economy ...
The reason is was threatened of be burned on the stakes many times , is that Mandevelille trevealed how must operate social control to make possible richness and more profit ... closing and privatize all charities and prisons , opening all bordels and casinos ... Because all private vices makes the collective virtue...
His analysis of social class make Marx a children at primary school, and his cynism make machiavel look line a praying nun...
He risk deaths and prison because he published what became the capitalism and neo liberalism of today...
He explain it anticipating Freud unconscious long before him. Mandeville was by profession " a doctor of the soul " today psychologist ...😁
|
I dont want a mix of Wagner and Mozart ...
Nor any other mix..
Music is not electronical mixing sounds or styles...( it could be fun one hour )
Music is about historically grounded creativity rooted in specific bodies and souls of humam artists...
Music is not sounds, as some people too focussed on audio gear thought it is, music is culturally recognized meanings in metamorphosis...
Music is not only a background fun noise as it could be ...It is mostly a joyful content who taught us deep meanings...
It is why A.I. mixing cannot be an esthetical goal... Only a marketing circus product...
I will not buy it... Sorry ...😁😊
And yes i am too serious.... 😋
Or perhaps not enough serious facing this A.I. cataclysm in the hand of criminal corporations...
pick your choice...
|
Led Zeppelin will definitely benefit from this mix...
Bach will not benefit at all ...😊
Imagine Led Zeppelin is a beautiful woman and Bach a male genius she want him as husband to procreate together :
«Reportedly there was famous exchange between the prominent playwright George Bernard Shaw and the glamorous dancer Isadora Duncan on the topic of producing a child together. Duncan stated that Shaw had a magnificent brain and she had a glorious beauty; the combination would yield a remarkable child. Shaw replied with regret that he feared the result would embody his beauty and her brains.»
|
This is free to read and is probably the best explanation of neural network with diagrams...
Design your own A.I. 😊 And beat caveman Bach at music composition with little help...
https://openreview.net/forum?id=RyZB4qXEgt
|
I think that between Bernard Mandeville corrupted but creative and rich hive society as a model of capitalism using A.I. as tool and the Amish refusal there is a middle way determined by the rethinking of the social fabric hierarchies value ...
This exclude unelected Bill Gates or Google takes over of societies priority...
I cannot say more here ... 😊
Music is meanings, not abstracted meaning only but concrete recognized meaning born from the human body metabolism and soul history...
A.I. music will be a corruption of music sold as entertainment ...
Some musicians composers will used it...
I will stick to the acoustically rooted musician playing a historically meaningful instrument...
I prefer didgeridoo anyway to electronica...
😁
|
So true...
Thanks for your post... I like Rick Beato ...
If you listen to Rick Beato talk about why today’s music is so boring, and understand a little bit about how generative AI works, you will see that generative AI is pretty much made for today’s music.
Copy (with minor tweaks) or just sample. Lather, rinse repeat.
It’s very likely AI will define the next trend in music, rather than just quickly emulate it, since most people are already conditioned to expect a lack of creativity.
|
I think most people dont understand A. I. at all ...
They dont understand how it will be used...
They dont figured out why we will all be affected by it even if we entertain the illusory freedom to ignore it... ( we can ignore ONLY in a cave )
Some misanthropist dont like mankind and wait for A.I....
The social fabric is not mature now nor consciously ruled by conscious beings , but driven by sleepwaking powerful individuals who push transhumanist agenda...
I dont want Musak escalator music and i dont want perfect recreation of Bach music by A. I. either no more than i wanted my wife replication perfectly done by A. I. after his death...
I want real nature with no A.I. with real fishing on a real river and real mosquitoes , not the mosquitoes engineered by Frankenstein Gates , time to time ...
Listen to the last podcast of Joe Rogan where the pope of transhumanism Kurzweil who predict more than human intelligence soon is babbling answers to Joe Rogan astute observation about security and privacy questions... Incredible!...
«I sold my robot because he is more intelligent than me. Anyway for now he cannot sell me but my wife called it back»--🤓
|
