A Discussion About What Level Of Analog To Stop At

@lewm 

Yes I run the MC2000/T2000 into the MM input of the Esoteric E-03. This morning I decided to reinstall one of my Ortofon MC2000 cartridges. One has a factory tapered aluminum cantilever, and my other one met an unfortunate accident and had to get fitted with a boron cantilever. So by default this one becomes my casual play cartridge. So that is the one I put on the table this morning. Such a beautiful sounding cartridge! 

When working though the dialing in of the system I primarily used digital material. When I did listen to a record, I found myself using the Ortofon Verismo and BMC MCCI Signature ULN. Somewhere in that process I know I spent a weekend listening to the Kiseki Blackheart on the Dynavector arm into the Esoteric MC configuration. I enjoyed both of those cartridges immensely, and I kind of  thought perhaps the MC2000 wasn't really a good match for what the system has become. 

Today has slapped me right across the cheek, and said are you daft? I have the lesser MC2000 playing now with some William Ackerman vinyl, and the sound is so beguiling that you can just sit and let it wash over you. Such a beautiful cartridge, and to think it conceived in the early 1980's. Such beautiful music, I feel fortunate to be able to listen to such a special and unique offering. 

I know someone who bought an MC2000 and attempted to run it on a BMC. He reported that combination did not work out well. I can certainly give it an experiment one dreary weekend this winter and see what happens. 

As I mentioned, I enjoyed the Kiseki Blackheart. The sound is sweet and intimate, and yet still remarkably detailed. I can see what the allure of the Blackheart is, and it is certainly more aligned with a Koetsu kind of presentation, which is fundamentally different than the MC2000. 

What a wonderful hobby we have, and such a remarkable time where we can have craftsmen maintain and restore the gems of yesteryear and yet we have exquisite and rare talismans built by todays artisans. What a remarkable time we are in, as vinyl was supposed to have been dead and buried two decades ago. 

@tvrgeek It is all a balancing act, and its a cost versus reward analysis. I tune the room the best I can with acoustic panels and speaker and equipment stand location. Actually the room measures almost ruler flat from 200 Hz on up. Then I allows the DSP to make small corrections, essentially fine tuning the set up. The thing with a quality DSP is if you make modest changes it does not intrude on the music, its when you make giant steps that processing becomes noticeable. Since this is not a custom built audio room and is off my dining room, it has a dual purpose of entertaining guests from time to time. Not frequently though. Its primary function is my music room. So this is the best arrangement I have had, and the Trinov is one of the more formidable DSP systems on the market. It does work well. But it does get the analog purist in a bit of a tither since an analog signal is going AD to DA at some point. 

@rauliruegas A pair of Velodyne HGS12 subwoofers are controlled by the Trinov program. Crossover point is set at 58Hz and the crossover is a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley. I have other crossover types available to me, such as various Bessel or Butterworth. Martin Logan lists 56 Hz +/- 3DB as the bottom end of the speaker. There are separate EQ programs for each channel installed, so I can affect each subwoofers or main speaker. So, I can manually add a bit of extra boost in the small hole that is created by the half wall. I have yet to do so, as I really do not hear a need, but I imagine I will do that one evening to satisfy my curiosity.

@lewm I don’t have the schematic to say at what stage the AD conversion occurs. Is it the first step, or does something else happen? So that is why I say at some point. We can say for sure that it occurs between before the output stage, and it me the exact point does not really become that large of a sticking point.

I can certainly experiment with different crossover points. I have just gotten things optimized for what I have now. What I do know is that anytime I make a change in configuration, and changing x over points will change dispersion patterns, this means I will have to run new calibrations, and that is an involved process. So its just not a matter of changing an input on a screen and saying this sounds better than that.

This is currently what I have set up. Top is before calibration, middle is after DSP correction.

@rauliruegas The thing to remember is the NATURE of the bass. Planar open baffle style bass is different in terms of attack, harmonics, and decay than conventional woofers. Even if they are in sealed boxes and servo controlled. The higher you bring the crossover the greater the risk of hearing the difference in the nature of the speakers and subwoofers.

@mijostyn The Amethyst can do 48 dB per octave. I have to read the manual to find that menu. 

Interesting point about diaphragm excursion and unintended effects. Very reasonable points. 

Next weekend I will experiment with higher crossover points. I will look at 80 and 100 Hz. I can create curves for both and select between them. 

@mijostyn So this afternoon after work I hooked up the mic and ran calibrations with crossover points of 80 and 100 Hz. I have 58 Hz saved in slots 1-5, 80 Hz at 6-10, and 100 Hz at 11-15. 

Over the weekend I can listen and compare both configurations and see how things shake out. 

I listened to 80 Hz as the crossover point last night. Undoubtedly a better choice. Improved focus, soundstage expanded, most noticeably in terms of front to back depth. Immediacy and definition of singers and instruments has increased. No reduction in bass quality. 

I will listen to 100 Hz tonight and see what occurs. But if 80 Hz is going to be a final stopping point I certainly can accept that. The music is beautiful. 

I listened to 100 HZ as crossover and found the presentation to bee too forward and sometimes a bit hard. I then ran another sweep for 90Hz, and that one is below the threshold. So at this point I am going to listen to 80 Hz and 90 Hz and see which I prefer. The differences between crossover points are more profound than I would have expected. Given the nature of the speaker I can see this happening, its just a learning point of a different format. This is such an awesome hobby we have. 

I like a BM Ruby? That is news to me. 

@kennyc I had similar thoughts about the Walker, and all that brass is ugly! 

The Scheu turntable weighs 85 pounds, so it's kind of high mass

When I first bought it I emailed Scheu inquiring about arm board and lubrication. Never heard from them. Makes me reluctant about long term ownership, but for now it's a lovely table.