A difficult LP reproduction question

Excellent site, Bornin, it's added to my vinyl file!

I can help you there, Eldartford. The Lenco can play over a wide variety of speeds because the spindle against which the idler wheel turns is gradually machined from "fat" to "skinny", the idler wheel itself is carried on a sliding support to transport the wheel to any point along the spindle in infinitely variable increments, much like analogue itself versus the chopped-up digital version of music. Quite ingenious, and the reason why the Lencos are the darlings of the 78 crowd.

As to wow, flutter, rumble and speed variations, these are problems which affect belt drives as well, which is why these figures are given out even today. As well, belt-drive motors (cogging 150-300 rpm motors) often exhibit problems, as they are not nearly as well-built as the smoothly-spinning cogless, 4-pole, 1800-rpm idler-wheel motors of yore; belts are rubber bands which constantly react to "stylus drag" every time the needle hits heavily modulated passages (which is why so many belt-drives - even high-end ones - lose it when things get complicated)...all problems which do not affect properly set up idler-wheel drives. Probably why Sugano used a Garrard 301 in designing his Koetsu cartridges. Here I will quote from a very knowledgeable and logical man of open and working mind, Rudolf A. Bruil: "In order to achieve a perfect and steady turning of the record an EMT, a Thorens TD124 and a Garrard 301 and 401 (and also the early Goldring/Lenco) each have a heavy platter, a strong motor and an idler wheel which make the platter turn in a steady fashion, without a trace of slowing down when loud and complex passages suddenly occur. The isolation of the motor should be maximal. The rubber of the idler wheel should be durable and should not transmit motor vibrations to the platter at the same time. The circumference of the idler wheel needs to be impeccable. If this is not the case then rumble, wow and flutter will be the result...In the nineteen seventies several firms started using a heavy platter (6 to 20 kg) with the bulk of its mass concentrated on the periphery in order to achieve extraordinary values for wow, flutter and speed accuracy. If the shaft (spindle) and the bearing are engeneered from the best materials and to close tolerances, the playback of an Lp can give stunning results if arm and cartridge are also of high quality." Lencos with the rubber-covered aluminum idler wheels never have flat spots or other irregularities, the motors and platters are hand-balanced in labs, the platter has much o fits mass concentrated on the periphery, the motors themselves have their own three-point true spring suspension, and the main bearings are excellent. It's all in the execution.

Here is a quote from one of the few comparisons ever made between a modern high-end 'table, a Michell Gyrodec, and a rebuilt idler-wheel drive, the Garrard 401, in Hi Fi World: "I also strongly suspect, after listening to the very clean transient starts and stops supported by this turntable, that its high torque drive system suffers less from dynamic slowing than belt drives. That's why it not only sounds dynamic, but has a very good sense of pace and rhythmic control. The rumble demon has been banished completely by Martin Bastin's new bearing and plinth. Previously it measured around -25dB at 25Hz, relative to the DIN rumble test tone. Now, the spectrum analyser shows 25Hz level measures -60dB, looking like ordinary disc surface noise rather than a discrete rumble component. The smoothness of the rumble spectrum indicates there is no rumble as such."

So, if by recapturing the sound of our youth you mean music played with the proper authority and spot-on timing, which is absolutely crucial to proper reproduction of music and hence musical thrills, then yes, I agree with you entirely.

Well I find this discussion of cheap'n fun phono stages fascinating. I wasn't aware of the Rat Shack project, and now I am I think I'll have to give it a go! Thanks Joe and Eldartford! It seems to me that Gram Slee started by making a phono stage for 78s, you should look them up Albert, and see if it is still (or ever was) made. Unfortunately, my books are still all in boxes. I believe it was an early Hi Fi + that did the review of this 78 preamp (if it was a Gram Slee).

On the subject of the Mini Phono, however, I am certain of what's going on, as this is what I use when playing my Lencos. While my regular phono stage is quite good - which despite being a Pioneer Elite preamp from the '80s (avaunt Demon!) is of surprising quality (it surprised me), better than the NYAL I had used until I acquired it in fact (the surprise being I had bought the Pioneer as a stand-in until I could get the NYAL repaired) - it cannot handle the extreme dynamics of my Lencos (this is not hyperbole), so I use it strictly for my belt-drives (it has deeper bass than my Mini Phono): my Maplenoll, Ariston RD11S and Audiomeca, among others. The only cheap phono stage which will accomodate the Lenco's dynamics without distorting is the ASL Mini Phono, because it is tubed. This is a superb unit for the money, and has much fun tweak factor built in (as do all ASL units). It also has tube rolling potential for yet more future fun. I bought a pair of severely measured (specifically for the ASL's electrical characteristics) and matched Philips NOS tubes for mine and it is dead quiet. Not too much gain though, but not a problem, and I have the volume control on my preamp, which can go to 11! Given the Lenco's dynamics, the NAD and Musical Fidelity need not apply. The jump in price from the ASL to the other options is not subtle. And will they match the ASL's glorious tube midrange (truly, this is a giant-killer phono preamp, given matched tubes for quietness, which are absolutely necessary)?

If you decide to go for the Thorens, be aware that this is a "quasi-idler-wheel-drive", and so the dynamics will not match the Lenco's dynamics (the Thorens was found to be less dynamic than the true idler-wheel drive big Garrards in published comparisons), which means that the NAD and MF preamps can again apply, though I don't think they will match the ASL anyway. Being tubed, the ASL also has much more "educational" potential.

While it is true that many idler-wheel drives did have problems with flat spots and rumble, the Lenco is so designed so that flat spots do not develop. The sprung suspension of the motor also does much to eradicate rumble. This, among other things, makes the Lenco an excellent way to delve into the potential glories of idler-wheel drives. Bravo for your experimental and fun spirit Albert!

Eldartford, the speed variations caused by belt reaction falls beneath the radar, so to speak, happening too fast to be captured by a strobe. This is why certain 'tables measure superbly averaged over a minute, yet don't hold up sonically (audibly) under pressure. But it is audible as confusion, loss of focus, orchestra melding into a single monstrous violin, loss of attack, and so on. And yes, it is far more difficult to design and properly set up an idler wheel drive than a belt drive, which is why belt drives won the war: a matter of price and profit margins. Fortunately there are the Lencos, whose simplicity in execution and design (a closed system of silent high-torque motor, perfect idler wheel and high-mass flywheel/balanced platter in which groove modulations have no effect) makes optimization much easier. The models I recommend were built from the late '60s to the mid-'70s, when many of the problems you cited were identified, understood and eliminated. I had never actually thought about the effect of stylus pressure, and you're right, lower tracking force would go some way towards mitigating this effect in belt drives, but with the Shure stylus profile (which digs deeply) the problem is increased, probably balancing out in the end. Yet one more thing I will have to experiment with!

Eldartford, do you know I never actually tried to play 78s on my Lencos? I stumbled on them entirely by accident one day, and that particular model being defective, I simply threw out everything which was not directly connected to the drive system, thus accidentally modding it and being blown away by the sound. From there, hooked, I pursued the idler wheel grail. But from perusal of various 78 and mono stylii, I believe these can be tracked today from as low as 2 grams and up to 5. Others with hands-on experience will know more.

While it's true that high mass platters overcome belt reaction to a certain degree, what is actually happening, since physics cannnot simply be banished, is that this mass lowers the frequency of the reaction, as the belt reaction must overcome greater mass/inertia, thus reacting continually, but at a slower pace. This is why high-mass decks sound less lively than lower-mass decks (their bass rhythms messed up by low-frequency reaction), which major in PRaT, versus the information retrieval of high-mass decks which overcomes high-frequency belt reactions. I used to have one of the highest mass platters in the business on my Maplenoll, a 40-pound lead platter. Yes, there was greater retrieval of information, but it also sacrificed the famed Maplenoll liveliness. I eventually went back to the lower-mass Maplenoll Athena, which is far more musical. Thus is the high-mass/low-mass phenomenon exposed, as the human ear is still the best measuring instrument we have, with respect to music. Once I had a good idler wheel properly set-up, I was forced to seek the causes of the great increase in detail, attack, bass, imaging, and so on. So, having experience of both high-mass (Maplenoll Ariadne) and low-mass (Ariston, AR-XA modded, Maplenoll Athena) belt-drive 'tables, I came up with the above theory, which seems to fit the facts. A recent review of the Origin Live Aurora Gold turntable in Stereo Times had the following to say: "The heart of music is time and timing: music unfolds in its own created universe of time, divided into smaller sections placed within that fluid time scheme, divided further down to the individual note. Each individual note begins with silence, rises to its intended volume and then decays. Identifying that note, the instrument playing it and the physical location of it are all based on an exact sequence in time. It wouldn’t be too false a metaphor to understand music as an emotional language based on intervals of tone and time."

And what has better speed stability than an idler-wheel drive with perfect wheel, incredible cogless 4-pole 1800-rpm motor, and massive balanced flywheel platter which creates a closed system (groove modulations and stylus drag? what's that?) in which the platter smooths out the motor's revolutions while the motor carries the platter relentlessly? And yes, you're right, this extemely high-torque design is an accident of being designed for high stylus pressures - 5 to 10 grams - in the old days. But properly designed and implemented (a heavy, non-resonant plinth), the extreme speed stability regardless of groove modulations and stylus pressure is entirely audible at 33 1/3 rpm, even compared to the best of belt-drives. Again from the same review: "Since accurate tracking of the timing of a note - it’s loudness, attack, flowering and decay is also the perceptual mechanism behind reproducing a coherent stereo image, it’s no surprise that the I/AG is as adept at reproducing the stereo illusion as it is with the music unfolding within that illusion." And here speed stability must be the reason my Lenco with Rega arm clearly out-images and out-soundstages my parallel-tracking Maplenoll (the precursor of the E-T tonearms, the Maplenoll having been designed in part by Bruce Thigpen). To conlude, it's not for nothing that I flipped over the Lencos. A series of accidents beginning with a 'table which was designed to combat extreme stylus drag in the days of 78s, and ending with a lad who already owned a Maplenoll Ariadne and Audiomeca turntable, but in a foreign land needing a table cheap and picking an idler-wheel 'table he had never heard of at a flea market.

Richard, the information came from nowhere but simple physics, my own experiments and experience with my own large collection of record decks, and the almost universally-noticed phenomenon that high-mass record decks simply don't have the "boogie factor" that low-mass decks like the Linn LP12 (and other similar decks) have. Rubber belts react, being rubber bands or springs, if you will. As the belt stretches on one side due to the braking action of groove modulations (the greater the modulations the greater the braking action) and the continuing pull of the motor, it must eventually contract. The lighter the platter, the more quickly it will contract. The heavier the platter, the greater the energy required to drag it (mass/inertia), and the slower the reaction, which affects the bass frequencies and thus the rhythm.

As I wrote up above, this is my theory to account for what I and others have heard and continue to hear. Take for instance this discussion on this forum of the strengths of various designs in "VPI Scout or Michell Technodec?": "But I would say that I'm now a believer in the 'theory' that high mass decks rob music of the life/prat/essence of music on vinyl. I don't see that teres does anything to handle resonance other than throwing lots of mass at it and this results in a dull presentation that I personally find boring and takes away one of the important reasons I love vinyl." Add to this the HiFi World review of the Garrard: "I also strongly suspect, after listening to the very clean transient starts and stops supported by this turntable, that its high torque drive system suffers less from dynamic slowing than belt drives." Simply a theory drawn from a series of sources and personal experience.

Once again I resort to the most recent consideration of this phenomenon (which I have followed avidly ever since discovering idler-wheel drives) from a Stereo Times review of the Origin Live turntable: "I must admit to severe disappointment with the musical delivery of most of the High End turntables and tonearms beloved of US audiophiles. This was as true in 1973 as it is today. Consequently I ran Duals and AR’s instead of the Thorens and Japanese direct-drives that were the rage in the mid-70’s; a Connoisseur when everyone lusted for a Technics SP 10, Kenwood KD 500 or Denon direct drive. Similarly, I owned Regas and Linns when Goldmunds, Well-Tempereds, SOTA’s and VPI’s were the High End darlings. The overall pre-occupation with stereoscopy and with sonic special effects of most High End record players pays too little attention to the core values of musical communication. (One prominent designer even admits that he was no idea of how to design a turntable with that sine qua non of the UK design school: articulating rhythm, phrasing, tempo and drive.) Consequently I find these tables turgid, dissecting, prosaic and unable to dance: you hear everything about the sonic event except what the music means."

While this phenomenon has been noted for as long as I have been paying attention (mid-'80s), the only theory so far to account for it is that mass absorbs energy and releases it over time, the greater the mass, the slower and more drawn-out the release. I submit that it is not this (heavy idler-wheel 'tables for instance and heavy direct drives do not suffer this problem with PRaT...all dance clubs use direct drives), but simple belt reaction, the heavier the platter, the slower the reaction. Of course, anyone can react to this theory in a number of ways: 1) deny that high-mass belt-drive 'tables have any problem with PRaT; 2) PRaT is an illusion; 3) high-mass aborbs energy and releases it over time; 4) disagree with all of the above and wait for a better theory; 5) agree with the theory. There are probably other reactions, and I'm sure at some point I will discover them. I read all record player reviews I can uncover (it is a sickness with me), as I find the whole "design's impact on the music" thing fascinating. I experiment extensively at home, and listen to various decks when I can in other systems. It's that "magic" factor that I find supremely important in music, and I believe this comes down to timing, or PRaT, as does the above reviewer and Art Dudley, among many others. The pursuit of high mass in record player design is a runaway train with no musical (PRaT) foundation.

Albert, the EAR is nowhere near the Mini Phono in terms of price, and I would venture to guess it is better. The Seduction kit I know nothing about, but eventually would like to try. For fun factor, then the Mini Phono and Seduction kit have it. The Lenco/Decca pairing works with many cartridges, I have even tried it with an Audio Technica OC9 low-output MC with great success. My personal favourite combinations are with Shure V15VxMR (PRaT), and Grado Platinum (glorious midrange). The Decca isn't picky, and your choices are therefore large. Probably the Godlring would sound good too. Happy to muddy the waters!