A difficult LP reproduction question

Johnnantais...Thanks for the good writeup about idler wheel turntable technology. The ones that I had, including the ubiquitous Garrards, never worked that well, and were easily surpassed by early belt drive tables like the Empire 598 that I used. Perhaps the belt drive is just harder to screw up, and doesn't require the precision engineering and construction needed to make the idler wheel effective.

The speed changes that you cite as a result of groove modulation is something that I have never actually seen (with LPs) using a strobe on either my belt drive or direct drive tables. Probably it happens more with 78s, and perhaps the phono pickup and downforce play a role. I have long used Shure V15 at about 1 gram.

I have heard favorable comment on a Radio Shack IC-based phono preamp kit costing about $10. It might do for your 78rpm adventure.

The current fascination with "rim drive" (idler wheel) turntables is astonishing. We were so glad to be rid of that technology (and I use the word loosely). What will it be next...wind-up clockwork drive? (No EMI problems for sure).

Albertporter...Like wine, some old technology is superb, and other old technology has turned sour. I think the old idler wheel drive for turntables is an example of the latter.

In general I think your characterization of me is a bit off the mark.

I recon that digital power amps are a modern and inexpensive technology. I have three CarverPro ZR1600. (And a Panasonic SA-XR25 for the HT rig). But for my rear channels I am still using KenwoodLO7M monoblocks, a classic from the 80's.

I approve of Dynaco tube power amps, (which I once owned) and they were old technology and inexpensive (when I built them).

I most definitly do not approve of the "most expensive" of high end equipment, and I would put a $150 wall outlet in this category. My main speakers are a set of three Magneplanar MG1.6, which are neither expensive nor cheap. They fit exactly the type of equipment that you say I don't endorse.

As to the Cryo'd outlet test...I am not trying to convince anyone but myself. I have taken the trouble to seriously evaluate an idea that I am inclined (for scientific reasons) to disbelieve. It's been said by folk like you that one can't have an opinion without a listening test. OK... I am listening. What more do you want?

Albertporter...I guess I didn't grasp that your objective is to find a turntable with wow and flutter, rumble, and speed variation, to augment the 78 rpm surface noise, and recapture that nostalgic sound of your youth! In that context an idler wheel table fits the bill perfectly.

Records were made at various speeds, but those which are not 78rpm aren't properly called "78s". The 78rpm standard was established to end the speed inconsistencies, just as the RIAA equalization standard was established to end the need for multiple equalization curves in preamps. The speed range that you cite agrees with what I remember, and does exceed the range of adjustment for most turntables that provide for speed adjustment. Can you explain why an idler wheel drive permits more adjustment than some other form of drive? Or is it just that when turntables were made with a wide range of speed adjustment, idler wheel drive was the only show in town.

Johnnantais...A massive turntable will prevent high frequency speed variations. If you know the stylus drag force variation, and the angular inertia of the platter you can calculate speed variation, even neglecting any tendency of the motor to smooth things out.

I think that the stylus drag probably correlates with "Trackability", a parameter where Shure pickups excel. What do you use nowadays for stylus downforce for 78's? In the old days, when 78's were new, downforce of 5 to 10 grams was used, and this would certainly cause a lot more drag.