A decent integrated amp under 2K ...
I'm looking for an INTEGRATED AMP. My speakers are Altec 620A (100 db efficiency) and my listening room is 14 x 21. I mainly listen to digital files from my DAC (Metrum) but sometimes I feel less lazy and put on a vinyl on my Garrard. I don't need a phono stage, I use the one from another integrated amplifier (Spendor D40). Here's my shortlist:
1) Belles Aria Integrated (slightly powerful for my needs)
2) Croft phono integrated (since I don't need a phono stage, I think it's a shame to burn tubes for nothing)
3) Rogue Sphinx V3 (too powerful for my needs)
FURTHER CONSIDERATIONS: I can live with tubes but only in the PREAMP section and I try to avoid Class A due to the heat. I'm open to Class D (proof: the Rogue) but the choice is limited and these devices come with a bunch of stuff I don't need. I rather spend my $ where it will make a difference.
regards
Showing 23 responses by alaindexe
@mesch : what are you speakers and what is their sensitity ? |
@mesch : it'd probably better to select a pair of speakers first and then match them with a proper amp... |
@mesch : my Sugden isn't an A21, it's a class A/B amp so it doesn't get hot at all... my two top contenders are the Croft and the Belles... which ever comes first on the used market, but I rather get the Croft because it's only 40 watts/chanel and I don't need more then that... Here's my advice for you. I wrote it before realising you didn't have a pair of speakers yet, so it may be useless : I've had 2 pairs of Tannoys (Belvedere + Arden) and they are a lot easier to match then my Altec... never heard the Sterlings but they must be pretty good... with 91 db efficiency, you could use a bit more power then I do... based on your Tannoy (I never heard the Esoteric MG-10), I'd go for a Belles integrated (75 watts/chanel)... from what I read, to better this, you have to get a class A (Pass labs, Sugden A21, First watt), or go with tubes... the AVA set 120 is also a good choice, but less powerfull... As for the Sphinx, I read a very informative thread on AG comparing it with the Belles and the Belles clearly won... |
@waltroman : very interresting comment... I end up buying a Belles Aria Integrated about a month ago and I've been listening to it ever since... its damping factor is 2000 and I lost quite a bit of bass..I would like to compare with the Croft, but I don't know its damping factor and this info seems hard to get on the web... |
to those who are interested... I bought a Belle Aria Integrated about a month and a half ago... At first listen, I was a little disappointed because it’s quite neutral compared to my Sugden A25B. Like many British amps, the Sugden has a pleasant coloration. After a few days of listening, my ears ended up "detoxifying" and the Belles gradually seemed to be superior to the Sugden on several criteria: more nuanced, better image and above all NO harshness at all, which is quite rare for a SS amp... the Belles is so neutral you forget it’s there... the only thing that seemed weaker is the bass... Its high damping (2000) produces a much thinner bass but, on the other hand, it is very nuanced. I haven’t listened to enough vinyl records yet to comment on its phono stage but when I did, it sounded good. It’s by far the best transistor amp I’ve heard, but I must admit I didn’t listen to many high end SS amps. |
@sbank : my amp is open all day long and it get way too hot in the summer... also I had PLENTY of tube amps when I was younger & I do not like the hassle to deal with them... @yogiboy : I don’t see the point of burning a tube if I don’t need it, which would be the case with the Croft... 2 out the 3 tubes are for the phono and I basicly never use my Garrard... when I do, I already have a phono stage in my Spendor integrated (that I use for another pair of speakers) @jimcrane : not really my type of machine... but who knows, I could be wrong... @jerryg123 : yes, the Belles Aria is on the top of my list... and the AVA SET 120 used to be there also but I removed it, I don’t know why... @big_greg : Vincent is a nice option... as for Modwright, it is WAY over my budget... |
@joey54 : I have specified that I didn't want tube in the power section... it creates too much heat in the summer... only in the preamp section, I am willing to «deal» with tubes ... |
@dill : a few years ago, I did try a Pathos One for a while and it was pretty good... |
@bob540 : I believe the Audiolab wouldn't be an improvement on my actual amp which is a Sugden A25B. @brandonfin : not a bad idea but I believe the Naim is quite similar to my actual amp, a Sugden A25B. there wouldn't be a major improvement @mazian : that's what I'm planning on doing unless someone has a better idea. @dustyb13 : I believe the Arcam wouldn't be an improvement on my actual amp which is a Sugden A25B. @axpert : as mentionned previously, I don't want tubes in the output section. @charles7 : look at previous comment. @cakyol : I though about the Schitt and even went online to check them out but dropped the idea, I don't remember why... @hickamore : as mentionned in my post, I don't want an integrated full of features that I don't need... |
@axpert @hilde45 @elliottbnewcombjr @bigkidz @richdirector I specified that I did not want tubes in the output stage and I have my reasons for doing so. BTW I’ve had a few tube amps when I was young: Harman Kardon Citation II, Leak (TL 12), Quad II, Dynaco St-70 ... Each one sounded absolutely fabulous on my Altec VOT, which is by far the best speaker I’ve own ... I remember that these amps gave off a LOT of heat and required REGULAR maintenance ... I also had to change tubes and, in the 1980s, you had to find them first, which was not easy and could be expensive ... A matched pair of KT-88s cost $ 300 back then ($ 600 today) ... What I’m trying to say is that I know what a good tube amp sounds like and if I made the choice not to have one, I have my reasons. Thank you for respecting it! |
@boomerbillone : in my experience amps have a sweet spot in terms of output volume ... some amps that I found mediocre at low volume turned out to be better at high volume and vice versa ... so it’s best not to have a powerful amp for nothing ... also, a powerful amp gives off more heat than a less powerful one (unless the less powerful is a class A) ... and the more an amp heats up, the faster its components deteriorate ... all this to say that I know my needs in terms of power ... my current amp is 34 watts per chanel and it’s more than enough for my needs ... |
@oksailor : When I bought my Altec 620A, they were connected to a 200 watts Mcintosh amp that had powered them when they were in a recording studio. I managed to knock down walls, but in terms of subtlety, I was not impressed - and never was for that matter - with this or any other SS Mcintosh amps ... beyond their legendary build quality and reliability , I really don’t understand what attracts people ... the only Mcintosh amps I would consider are the old vintage tube devices ... these sounded really good but as soon as Mcintosh went SS it was a lot less interesting... |
@ditusa : thanks for considering my requirements before making a suggestion ... much appreciated ... i had thought about Schiit before and had given up on the idea i cant remember why so i went to read more .. . several criteria play in its favor, in particular its flexibility and its low wattage ... on the other hand, it has a class A output for headphones and I try to avoid class A because of the heat emitted ... Another "detail", Schitt Audio does not give precise data on electricity consumption and it is a very important measure for me ... it only says : "Power Consumption: 500W maximum ". |
@pr : merci pour votre suggestion... je sais que les amplis en class A sonnent mieux que les transistors et qu'ils rivalisent même avec les tubes... par contre, ils chauffent beaucoup et je ne peux me permettre d'avoir un ampli qui chauffe à ce point pendant les mois d'été... je n'ai pas l'air climatisé et ça monte souvent à 31 degrés chez moi durant les mois chauds... merci d'avoir pris le temps de me répondre... au plaisir... |
@ditusa : I know about this class A/B thing ... I was talking about the class A section of the headphone which is - according to Schitt - 6 watts ... this doesn't seem much, but still I'm wary of the heat generated by class A ... BTW, it's not convincing to say that it heats up less than a 20 watts amp in class A since everyone knows that such an amp emits a LOT of heat ... I read the 52-pages pdf file with all the graphs and detailed specs but NOWHERE does Schitt mention standby consumption, idle consumption or give any other consumption figure, which seems suspicious for a company generating so many measurements for its devices ... You're right about one thing : the only way to know is to try it, but the problem is that I live in Canada and won't be able to take advantage of their trial offer because of the customs ... Finally, you wrote :
I've been in this hobby for over 40 years and never saw such a measure... efficiency is always measured in decibels (db), usually with 1 watt at 1 meter (with a pink noise) ... regards... AL |
@ditusa : Wow! these are amazing speakers you have ... a friend who has a recording studio has 4430 and they are awesome ... never heard the 4435 but I guess the extra 15 inch gives it better response in the bass ... Do you use them for monitoring or hi-fi listening? It seems that I learned something new today ... I always thought that efficiency was expressed in db but now I see that sensitivity and efficiency are different ... sorry for the mistake .. AL |
@ball-wheel : I stated that I don’t want tubes in the output stage... @letitbe1306 : that could be an option but I also have a Sugden D40 (made by Exposure) and it isn’t a good match... @blancpain1 : I doubt that the Nad would be better then my Sugden A25B... @jasonsim : see previous comment and replace «Nad» with «Cambridge» @rocket94 : this could be an option... I’ll make some research about it... thx @metaldetektor : not sure... it has a dac integrated into it and I don’t need that... @gwangler15 : your input is greatly appreciated... my only concern with the Croft Phono Integrated is that 2 of the 3 tubes are for the phono and I won't be using it... the Croft CGI (no phono) is also on my list but those rarely come across... |
@metaldetektor : the Moonriver is quite a nice unit but it's about twice my budget... and it will never be available used in Canada... @gwangler15 : I've been thinking about modifying the circuit in order to shut down the phono stage... but this is tricky and may not be faisable... @rocket94 : according to what I read, it wouldn't be a good match... my Altec needs to be tame down, not the opposite... @theforerunner : I've checked on the used market and there are quite a few on sale here in Canada, which is always suspicious... not sure it'd be a good match... critics say it's a rivealing amp but my Altec are already quite revealing... |
@mofojo : most US sellers will not ship to Canada due to additional border hassles. I can buy from an American manufacturer (like Power Module) but I will have to pay 15% tax on arrival ... If I order a device not made in North America (Mexico / US / Canada) then I have to also pay import duty, which can greatly increase the price ... |
@gwangler15 : I just wrote to Glen to find out if it was possible to use the device without the tubes dedicated to the phono stage or to put a switch to turn them on and off whenever required ... I'll let you kwow what his answers is... thx for suggesting me to get in touch with him ... |
@gwangler15 : just received Glen Croft's answer :
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@elliottbnewcombjr : of course, sometimes it can be worth coming up with proposals going against what someone wants, as long as you understand the needs of that person, which is not your case. I started a discussion on a similar topic last year ... At the time, I didn’t want any tube or class D ... as you can see, I’ve come a long way since ... all this to tell you that I have thought long and hard about the characteristics of my next amp and that I do not intend to buy myself a tube amp ...
yes of course ... it’s called making choices. Any sound system, even very high-end ones, are just compromises ... You just have to go to a concert hall to find out ... the trick is to come up with a compromise that satisfies us ... for my part, I decided to drop tubes for RATIONAL reasons ... my amplifier is on all day, in the summer it gets very hot in my place and I have no air conditioning ... you can make all the proposals you want, if they do not meet my needs, I will not take them into account ... |