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A challenge to all turntable manufacturers

As I sit here, listening to Miles, Live at the Blackhawk, Vol II, a thought occurred to me. I'm strictly a CD source, all tube component audiophile. While I acknowledge the sonic benefits of a quality analogue source, I cant get past the convenience of 70+ minute CDs, shuffle playback, remote pause and skip, minimal care and feeding, and low cost compared to new quality pressings that CDs offer over vinyl.

However the thought occurred to me that a laser pickup is a technical marvel. If it can read the nano sized pits on a CD, surely the technology exists for someone to make laser pickup to read the hills and valleys of an LP pressing without converting it to one's and zeros. Think of the benefits of no complicated stylus alignment or wear, platter cleaning, etc., The pickup could also be made to read both sides of the LP allowing for continuous play, random, play, skip function, etc. Am I just dreaming? Technology today has given us things never thought possible before. Come on TT manufacturers, get to work. Thoughts?

J.Chip
128x128jchiappinelli
jchiappinelli's avatar
jchiappinelli OP
117 posts
 

It's been done, with very mixed results.
Thanks for the info on ELP. However, have there been any reviews by major publications that support your claim of "mixed results"? 

As far as the DS system, I agree with looscannon. Cant see the benefit if you still have a stylus tracking in a groove.

J.Chip
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
I have not listened to the DS system so I can not comment on the sound but I am not about to spend that kind of money on one without there being an obvious advantage especially when high resolution files leap frog right over it at a major cost savings.

high res digital is not nearly competitive with standard technology cartridge design. not close. i have plenty of dxd (352/24) and Quad dsd and it pales directly compared to my vinyl performance.

your ’statement/opinion/wild guess’ is wrong. period.

as far as cost savings; you can’t paint broad brush strokes when speaking about performance. every system is different. some digital surpasses some vinyl at particular investment levels. if you are talking about SOTA on both formats, then vinyl is better. i own SOTA on both formats.

the optical technology of the DS Audio (which i have heard at shows) is more detailed than a normal cartridge. the question is it’s tonal balance....it's in the ballpark but a matter of personal taste. 

laser or optical in the groove is a non starter due to dust and dirt realities of this mechanical system. the vinyl pressing technology would need to be re-engineered for a direct optical or laser approach to be workable. and tonality of those laser systems has not yet been made workable.
looscannon
60 posts
 
jperry, I suppose you could read it that way but I meant technical sophistication.
MikeL , I do believe that is a subjective opinion. The techies would say you are listening to distortion that you and many others find pleasing. I listen to records because of nostalgia more than anything else. I have bookmarked my life with records and music. 

There are those that think of digital sound reproduction as segmented, broken up. The data is stored that way but it is not played back that way.
The DAC takes the data and turns it into a continuous wave form. Assuming it is a high resolution file you can not see the difference between the analog waveform and the digitally recreated one. If you reverse the polarity of one signal and add them together all you have left is random noise at a very low level. This would mean that whatever difference you hear, assuming it is the same master is from something that is being added to the signal. What that addition is depends on how you look at it. I look at it as distortion. 
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 

looscannon,

 I have bookmarked my life with records and music

i'll take your word for that. your Audiogon 'life' has been less than a week, and so little for us to know about yet.

but you will have to make some sort of case for your points beyond what you have written here. tell us about the details of your experiences (system details, investigation details) that support your representation that vinyl is distortion.

you do have a right to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

cd318
2,636 posts
 
poprhetor,

"ELP claims no digitization in the process."


I missed that. Thanks.

Well, that’s one major bugbear out of the way.

If records could be cleaned scrupulously, a big ’if’ I know, then the implications not only for audiophiles are huge.

Dragging a stylus through a groove, even with optimum stylus force, alignment and tracking ability, is changing the sound of that record forever.

For audiophiles it might not matter too much as we tend to wear out well before the vinyl, which is often replaceable.

But for archivists all over the world the benefits of preserving rare vinyl copies would be enormous.
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