508 18 bit upgrade or just add a dac, benchmark?

One thing that I wanted to point out was that a lot of the above bands mentioned produced better sounding music than various CD issues would have us believe. Joy Division LP's sound fine as do the first couple PIL records. In fact if you have Metal Box by PIL(3 x 45 RPM records) then you have one heaping pile o' sonic goodness! However, with many of these bands the CD issues have been terrible transfers. I find it too bad that so much energy is spent into transferring what I consider inferior music because it's "audiophile" approved. There is a ton of horrid jazz and boring classical that make any audio show you go to a truly pain giving experience.
I think it's great that the Clash have gotten enough "classic" status to have gotten remastered into better sounding CD's. It sure would be nice if there were more activity like that happening. Things like the Amphetamine Reptile catalog(Cows, Helmet, God Bullies etc) have never been well represented digitally. Again, some of the LP's sound great so it ain't the low budget recordings. There have been some decently recorded music with cheap equipment. See Steve Albini's comments concerning this.

It's the quality of the CD's mastering that make so many of us go around in circles trying to wring more sound out of them.

While I got into punk to escape the sort of music Rainchild is recommending above, it's actually pleasing to me to hear him recommending various rock music and not the usual "audiofool" suspects except for that Floyd. Man, I lived through that in the 70's and while I won't diss the utter genius of that record, I can't hear it without my sphincter clenching. Still I'd rather hear someone talking about listening to the Chili Peppers or Scorpion's than Belafonte or the ugh, Weavers.

My test discs include Boredoms "Super Roots 7" and "Pop Tatari", Spiritualized's "Ladies and Gentleman", Can "Monster Movie", Butthole Surfers "Locust Abortion Technician" (talk about wringing a lot of sound out of recording on 8 tracks in your kitchen), Pere Ubu's "Modern Dance", Velvet Underground's "Sister Ray" (a real test of resolution in your system), and Nurse with Wound's "Sylvie and Babs" and Radiohead's "Kid A". There's plenty of other underground discs that have various well recorded sounds to hear since some had good masters or have been remastered decently.

Like you Seanbaik, I have some long in the tooth digital that I'm in the process of researching to upgrade. Do I get a DAC? And like you I want a sound that's not too harsh in the upper registers(like I said those digital punk masters can be less than steller) but capturing the necessary dynamics and attack.

Of course my system is all tubes except for the CD Player. My system was solid state but that has changed over time. And I ain't never looking back.
I'm thinking of taking steaksters advice and trying some ERS paper in my CDP (Micromega Stage).

Seanbaik,

I'm with you man! I'd get a shotgun and pull a Kurt Cobain if I had to listen to smooth jazz! I remember some old audiophile who had me over to show off his system and he played the GRP All-Stars (don't ask just be very afraid) and it nearly killed me. I had a pasted on smile and yes, the system sounded great but I couldn't concentrate because the music was so bad! Owcha! And my tastes run far and wide and I'm a classical aficionado as well. I used to be a classical buyer for Tower records. But for me the music is always first and the recording quality just is what it is. I've never bought a record for good sound and never will.

As for your digital woes, believe me, a cheap turntable will take you far away from the land of digititis. I lived quite happily for with a Dual 505 turntable that had a Denon 165 cartridge on it(total cost was $250 for both) for quite awhile. It made a lot of music and even though I have upgraded to an Oracle I never felt that old combo was embarassed. There is still tons of vinyl out there to be had cheap and those old punk records sound great. So many memories, like the time I *sniff* blew out one of my cheap speakers playing The Stooges "Funhouse" at maximum volume while utterly intoxicated. Those were the days!

ERS paper is some magnetically damping something or other that they apply inside of components to make 'em sound better. It's supposed to work pretty well.

Get a cheap table and spin away! That'll cure those digital blues! I have the 12" of Jesus and Mary Chain's "Never Understand" and that thing is sonic bliss! Great stuff. I lost interest in that band when they lost interest in giant walls of feedback and distortion. So I moved on to Spaceman 3.

Let us know if you decide to get a 'table.

Seanbaik,

I'm not saying give up on digital. I think that there's no way around owning a ton of CD's(I have 2-3 thousand). I just think that my best sounds have always come through my turntables. If want to check out some tables in Seattle there is Experience Audio in the U-Dist. Tim there is a great guy and can probably work out something within your budget. If your looking to get something dirt cheap I recommend Dual turntables since you can get one used anywhere from $50-$100. I still have a Dual 505 that I keep as a back-up table. Bang and Olufsen RX or TX series can sometimes be found cheap. They are easy to use tables and automatic. You press a button they play and shut off at the end of a side. A feature that I miss with my fancy hi-end table. The Dual shuts off too. I have owned B&O tables in the past. Of course you're not going to get the higher resolution that you would with a higher end table but you will be enjoying vinyl and the sounds are fine.
As a final note, Sumiko's Pro-Ject makes the Debut tables for $299 that come with arm cartridge and in groovy colors too.
Then you could be heading to Singles Going Steady on 2nd Ave(2 blocks from where I live)in Belltown or Wall of Sound on Capitol Hill to get some great records, both used and new! I hate Easy Street in Queen Anne because they are always blaring rap or Bee Gees at Motorhead like volumes in the store which means that I can only stand to be in there for about 15 minutes, but they have lots of vinyl. The U-Dist and Jive Time is way too full of beat up vinyl for my tastes. I don't know who's buying this garbage but it's either hipsters who want vinyl in their collection for street cred and are sitting at home spinning CD's all the time or clueless people who will probably get out of vinyl because of all the surface noise from the crappy records they've bought at these places.
Still it's amazing at all the vinyl reissues coming out and Experience Audio has reissues of Stooges and MC5 records and all the stores I've recommended have lots of new stuff.
I'm looking at various DAC's to upgrade my digital cheaply. Like I said, you've gotta have a digital front end but I think you're missing out if you don't have a turntable.

Chris

Seanbaik,

No problem on the name. I thought it was kind of amusing since I'm the one who took your dog and I've trained him to clean my records, it costs me a Milk Bone dog biscuit per side but it's worth it. Kidding.....
Yeah, I had a bad experience with Hawthorne where I auditioned a preamp overnight and they dinged my card for the full amount and took nearly three weeks and countless phone calls to credit me back. I haven't been back since. They acted like total jerks about the whole deal and I talked to three different people there. Very unpleasant. Experience Audio is just down the street from Audio Connection on the other side near 51st and has much more equipment on view.
I used to write music reviews for The Stranger back when Everett True was the editor but after he left they dropped me from the freelance list because I wasn't part of the in-crowd.

As for mp3's, well I didn't like the bad sound quality of 8-tracks back in the 70's and I don't like the equivalent sounding mp3 now. Of course I'm not big on music on the go. Being a fan of John Cage means that I view the sounds around me as interesting enough to not have to inundate myself with headphones. This also means that I don't get hit by a bus because I didn't hear it while crossing the street. But yeah, I have a friend who burns his LP's to CD and then listens to those in his car.

If you want to hang out sometime, I'm game. You can email me at cletche@hotmail.com and we can exchange numbers and talk off list. I can spin you some killer vinyl and convert you to the big black discs. Also, the best sushi is at Maneki in the International District at 6th and Jackson. Seattle's oldest and best sushi restaurant. The only reason I ever go to Shiro's is for the Spanish Mackarel. They're the only place in town that carries it consistently though I Love Sushi's is better, they only have it flown in once or twice a week. It goes quick though.
As for used equipment, I don't know anywhere other than Audio Connection and Hawthorne. I use Audiogon.
Chris