3 New UBER Decks - Is this Turntable's SwanSong? 🦢

Just for the record....if Mikey claims that the OMA-K3 produced the BEST speed and wow/flutter figures of any turntable he has ever tested...

CHART INFO OMA-K3 

CHART INFO VICTOR TT-101 

Then the savvy engineers at Victor in Japan, managed to produce a better turntable 40 years ago!!!! 😂

OMA states on their Website:-

The design of K3's mechanicals is the work of a team led by Richard Krebs in New Zealand, the world's foremost authority on direct drive turntable technology.

Perhaps a Footnote is needed:-

Assuming all the Engineers at Technics, Victor, Pioneer, Yamaha, Kenwood et al are now deceased?

I don’t have a problem with Mikey’s reviews of these three turntables....
He doesn’t pronounce a ’winner’ and he treads a diplomatic path between all three which is understandable considering the huge costs each manufacturer bore in relation to delivering, unpacking, assembling, disassembling, re-packing and transporting these beasts.

None of them would be happy to receive criticism for their troubles....🥴

Mikey basically said, in so many words, that the Air Force was dull and plodding.

No he didn’t!

.....he’ll be disappointed that I DIDN’T write that "the K3 blows the fat, sluggish, energy-retaining AirForce Zero out of the water."

If one reads between the lines of his conclusions.....you wouldn’t imagine that Mikey will be trading in his beloved Continuum Caliburn, although I wouldn’t be surprised (given his relationship with Marc Gomez) if he added the SAT XD-1 to his listening room 🤔

They can’t tell that old high-end DDs are better (and 100 times cheaper) than some new high-end DDs. Same about cartridges.

Old cartridges you and I agree on, and I admire your stamina in continuing to repeat this message over and over again on this Forum.
I've long ago given up on offering advice to people who essentially don't want it.....🤭
But the message has obviously gotten out.
When I first began buying old cartridges on EBay 15 years ago.....good examples cost $200-$300.
Today those same cartridges are regularly going for $500-$1,000 so hundreds of audiophiles have gotten the message....even if most of them might be in Japan 😛

And don't forget 'old' tonearms......
People are conditioned to think that 'modern' is better and that 'progress and technology' continually improve things 🤩
It's true for many things like cars and computers but for traditional, well-understood crafts like watchmaking and analogue HiFi equipment, it ain't necessarily so 🤥
Do you really believe a 'modern' Steinway Concert Grand is way better than the same model made 40 years ago?

But the reality is he is now 74 years old by my reckoning.

Hey Dover.....
I resemble that remark 🥴
I think you're being unduly harsh on Mikey...

What I am saying is that Fremers comments are conditioned by his own historical imperfect equipment. Unless you have been listening to the exact same equipment for the same amount of time, then his comments are irrelevant in absolute terms - all they are are impressions from someone of whom you have no idea what they are hearing.

Well that's the same for ALL audio reviewers.....
If you don't read reviews because of this, that's your business.

After reading Mikey's reviews for 30 years or so...I think I know what his preferences are and he never makes a secret of them.
I also knew the preferences of the much-lamented Art Dudley but I don't feel the need to buy an idler-drive with Ortofon arm and SPU cartridge.
Nor do I need to buy Shindo amplification and DeVore Fidelity Orangutan speakers to appreciate his reviews and intimate writings.

I also believe I know the preferences of Jonathan Valin and Arthur Salvatore better than those of Harry Pearson and I enjoy reading ALL their writings.
I pity you if you choose to ignore interesting opinions and writings 😢

I have heaps of respect for all that John Atkinson has done and achieved in this hobby of ours.....but I don't read his reviews simply because he doesn't listen to vinyl!!!
He cannot hear the same way I do so his views are irrelevant to me...
I DO however, read his technical tests 👍

I know my hearing is good - 18khz at my last hearing test, and reasonably flat.

Good grief @dover ....that's amazing!
Mine cuts out at about 11K Hz....🙉
No wonder you can hear things on my YouTube videos that I can't!!!

The chances that he can set up a top end turntable accurately is remote.

The fact that you pick on the only man on earth who actually makes a 'living' selling his vinyl setup videos is ironic..🤥
For twenty years I had a Rega Planar 3 with Hadcock GH-228 unipivot tonearm.
If ANYONE can successfully master the adjustments on the GH-228 tonearm......everything else is a piece of cake 🤗
The Continuum Cobra and Copperhead arms are both PITA to setup for different cartridges and certainly not appropriate for a reviewer to use.
I think that's the main reason Mikey changed to the 4-Point and then the SAT.

After setting up dozens of cartridges.....one can become quite adept at it.
After setting up hundreds (as Mikey and I have done).....proficiency is not in doubt 😂
I've watched Mikey's setup procedure and don't do mine the same way...but then all of my tonearms (except for the Copperhead) have detachable headshells.
I certainly DON'T follow his USB microscope torture for SRA of 92 degrees.
If you can't HEAR when the VTA sounds best...you shouldn't be setting up a cartridge at all!!

I am the same age as Mikey, with good eyesight and steady hands.
I can setup cartridges whilst I chew a sandwich, talk on the phone and watch CNN all at the same time 🙃

A far more accurate and useful metric of the speed accuracy of a TT is to simply look at the raw yellow trace, ignoring the numbers. How close is it to the ideal symmetrical, clean, constant amplitude, sine wave?

You mean like THIS???? 

The Yellow trace is a a long way away from the ideal sine wave, its pretty messy. This TT is not micro speed stable.

So you're basically saying.....with the PlatterSpeed App

• Ignore the numbers
• Ignore the Green Trace (Low-Pass Filtered Frequency)
• Just value the Yellow Trace (Raw Frequency)

Is that correct....?

BTW the TT-101 is one of the TT's that has the subsonic resonance.

Please have the courtesy to show the evidence for this statement...🤥

@dover 

It’s all smoke and mirrors and fanciful postulation from the uneducated.

👍
I've heard nothing but positive reports about Bruce Thigpen and especially his ET 2.5 Airbearing Tonearm.
For years I've dreamt about installing his ingenious TRW-17 attic-mounted subwoofer 🤔

Thanks for posting that interesting article from him.
Maybe that's the reason each different tonearm produces a different result on the same turntable....?

I introduced this Thread by describing the limitations of the PlatterSpeed App that Michael Fremer has been using for years to test turntables.

The GRAPH produced with the PlatterSpeed App is accurate and USEABLE when looking at the 'Green' Lowpass-Filtered Frequency.
If the hole was PERFECTLY centred.....this 'Green' line would be perfectly STRAIGHT......but only if the turntable was maintaining its speed PERFECTLY.
So the best performing turntables are those with the most constant and even wobbles approaching as closely as possible a STRAIGHT LINE.

The yellow RAW Frequency Plot is what is measured from the 3150 Hz Test Tone and makes NO compensation for the record 'hole eccentricity'.
The 'Green' Lowpass-Filtered Frequency uses the PlatterSpeed Algorithm to 'filter' the 'hole-eccentricity' and produce an accurate graphical plot of the turntable's performance.

If we didn't have the GREEN Frequency Plot that PlatterApp gives us......we wouldn't need PlatterApp at all!!! 🤪
We could ALL just do a Plot of the RAW Frequency response of a random 3150 Hz Test Tone 🤗 

Having been embarrassed by the results of the OMA-K3 compared to the 40 year-old Victor TT-101.....Richard Krebs (the designer of the "most powerful turntable motor on earth") now wants an AUDIT of the 'votes cast' and disqualify those votes shown to be unfavourable to HIS candidate and count only the single vote he believes will allow his turntable to win 😂

The following Plots are done with my 40 year-old Victor TT-81 DD Turntable (bought for $500) with the Test-Disc fixed in one location and the three differently positioned tonearms playing the Test-Tone.

TT-81 with WE-8000/ST 
TT-81 with FR-64S 
TT-81 with DV-507/II  

Note the almost STRAIGHT line of the 'Green' Plot for the WE-8000/ST.
The OMA-K3 can't get close.....

Now the fundamental revelation of these three Plots, is that whilst the YELLOW 'Raw Frequency Plot' varies wildly for all three arms.....the GREEN 'Low-Pass Filtered Plot' remains relatively stable and consequently USABLE!!!! 👏

Richard Krebs however, prefers to make his 'scientific' judgements from ONE meaningless RAW Plot.......🤯

A far more accurate and useful metric of the speed accuracy of a TT is to simply look at the raw yellow trace, ignoring the numbers. How close is it to the ideal symmetrical, clean, constant amplitude, sine wave?

I can't see a clean, constant-amplitude sine wave for the OMA-K3...?

A clean sine wave, symmetrically centred around 3150hz with a constant amplitude for each cycle. As we can see, advances in technology have clearly improved the situation.

 I'm looking for that clean sine-wave but I just can't see it for the OMA-K3?
Please help me here.....🙏

Your wide explanation of the yellow raw frequency is really an eye open and truly welcomed.

I'm delighted to see that at least two people here are naive (or foolish) enough to believe that the yellow RAW Frequency Plot is of any value without a computer algorithm to correct for record warps, hole eccentricity etc because I think I've found that elusive pure sine wave for the Raw Frequency that Richard Krebs was unable to supply for his OMA-K1.....?

RAW FREQUENCY PURE SINE WAVE  

Over to you Mr Krebs.......🤗

I am careful to state that these Platterspeed measurements are for “entertainment purposes only”

Yes....but unfortunately you don't explain WHY!!!
99.9% of people have no experience with the PlatterSpeed App and simply accept your published results 'on face value'.
Many would also accept them as 'Gospel'....🤥

That said, I use the same 7” Feickert test record for every test so while the record isn’t perfect the relative results are 100% accurate.

No they're NOT!!!!!
They are unrepeatable and unreliable.
Do you want me to post the Plots of the same turntable/arm set-up with the test record rotated 1/4 turn...?

Visitors who got to hear all 3 turntables thought they were clearly among the finest they’d heard though all sounded different from one another, and sounded as I’d written (once the reviews were published).

I haven't disputed this....in fact I reinforced the claim that only YOU can offer an opinion on the comparative SOUND of these three decks.
And for that, I for one am grateful...🙏

BTW your Platterspeed chart is a 30 second test thus smooothing out the visual result. I make sure to always take a 60 second sample

Your wish is my command......

65 SECOND PLATTER APP 

70 SECOND PLATTER APP 

@grooves 
If you'd REALLY like to include an objective, repeatable, scientific and REVEALING test for any turntable.....why not ask Ron Sutherland to help you set-up TIMELINE....?
This test not only reveals VISUALLY...the true ability of a turntable to keep:-

• Accurate Speed
• Constancy of Speed

But is able to display 'in real time'....the effects of STYLUS DRAG!!!

Both Weiss and Krebs pointed out that ONLY direct drive can track and accurately reproduce a record and not be slowed down, however slightly, by the transients and dynamic contrasts presented in a record's grooves.

You could include a LINK in your Review to the applicable YouTube Video.

This could be a revelation in turntable comparison reviewing....
The only drawback could be the commercial pressure from manufacturers whose turntables are revealed for what they really are.....🤥 

Maybe one day Mikey got enough from the business and will be able to build up a real listening room 😂

I've had the privilege of visiting Thuchan's Listening Room and should emphasise that whilst he says he has three DIRECT DRIVE turntables both vintage and modern......he also has (and had) many other turntables including the EMT 927 R80, Micro Seiki SX-8000 II, Continuum Criterion with both Cobra and Copperhead Tonearms as well as several Revox B77 Tape Decks.
Here is his BLOG 🤩

So I was able to hear the Victor TT-101 against some formidable opposition and it was certainly not shamed.....
Richard, my best friend, has one of the very first Continuum Caliburns (before Mikeys).
Before that, he had the Rockport Sirius III which was quite a revelation for me.

It took a LONG time for the Western World to give any audiophile creedence to Direct Drive.....