3-4 dB dip at crossover region: what should I listen for to hear it?


I haven’t posted here for about 10 years but thought I’d jump back in to ask about my new JBL 4349s. According to measurements on ASR and even JBLs own graphs, the 4349s have a 3-4 dB dip in the crossover region at about the 1.5 kHz mark. What should I listen for to hear this? I understand that music in this range will be quieter, but I’m not hearing any suckout compared to my Omegas or other speakers Ive had in my system. I’ve played some clarinet and violin concertos, two instruments that spend a lot of time in this frequency range, but I can’t hear an obvious difference. Am I listening for the wrong thing? I’d like to be able to hear this deficiency for leaning purposes if nothing else, so any pointers are appreciated.

 

Many thanks!

rischa

Showing 12 responses by rischa

Thanks for the reply @ellajeanelle. That’s really interesting. According to most of the posters on the 4349 thread at ASR, this dip is an unforgivable sin. I’ve been taking hifi seriously for about 15 years but have only recently been using measurements to guage how gear might sound (though I’ve been using measurements for system matching from the beginning). Lots to learn!

@corelli, apologies for the misunderstanding -- should have written that I played concerto recordings, lol. Good advice on trusting my ears. I like a lot of the things these speakers do but they're pretty new so I'm still adjusting to them.

Believe it or not I actually would like to hear it, if only so I can better relate measurements to performance. The thing is, I’m not sure these speakers are right for me (too soon to tell - I always take a long time to adjust to new gear), so while I’ve got them I might as well learn from them. These are my first horn speakers so I bought them as much for the experience as anything else.

Thanks to everyone for the responses. So it seems like a narrow dip in spl at one point in the range is relatively inconsequential, at least in this instance. That's good to know.

 

@roadcykler, your post is surprising on an audiophile forum. Whay do I want to hear the dip? Because I want to be able to correlate the measurements with my listening experience. Or in this case, to learn that the the dip has little effect on what I'm hearing. If none of this was important, I'd just buy some old Pioneers at the goodwill and be done with it. I like learning about audio almost as much as I like listening to music -- it's how I put together a system that presents the music at its best.

@jheppe815, glad to hear you’re enjoying your 4349s after two years. They’re definitely growing on me. Can I ask if you experienced a long break-in period? I actually bought mine used but I don’t think the original owner played then much beyond a brief audition period, as I know he had a few different speakers on hand to try at the same time as these.

Here’s mine:

Yes, I’ve asked myself several times how I ended up with PA speakers, lol. I think they look great, though.

@toddalin, thanks, I will listen for this and compare with my other speakers. Can I ask what you mean by "overtones"?

@jheppe815, thanks for the information -- very reassuring. My top end is pretty smooth so maybe these have more hours on them than I thought. Overall I like them, but I need more time to adjust to their sound. They’re SO dynamic. I’m used to the much more delicate sound of my Omega High Outputs. I’m about to switch the 4349s over to one of my tube amps and play some classical guitar. If it sounds as real/natural/correct as my Omegas, that will be a great sign.

If anyone thinks I should start a dedicated thread for rhe 4349s, let me know. Not sure how much interest there is.

@toddalin thanks for the explanation and video. I thought both sets of speakers came off pretty bad in rhat video, but - and feel free to accuse me of being biased - the JBLs were much more tolerable. The Klipsch sounded quite shouty to me, whereas the JBL had depth and warmth (warmth relative to the Klipsch that is).

I’ll also note that the JBLs in the video were the 4367s, the model above mine. According to Erin at Erin’s Audio Corner, the 4367s measure and sound great. Erin is also one of the guys on the ASR 4349 thread who thought the 4349s measured terribly (I like Erin and subscribe to his Patreon).

@toddalin, thanks for posting the graphs. Is this generally what's behind the "horn coloration" I've heard mentioned? 

@erik_squires, thanks, that makes sense.

Funny you mention Altecs -- I don’t have much experience with horn speakers other than some old Altec Lancings my friend runs with a pair of MC30s. The 4349s remind me of those speakers more than any others I’ve heard. My friend’s system was my first exposure to hifi beyond the Bose 301s and Sony Receiver I had at the time, so its sound is engrained in my memory.

@james633, yeah, I think I'll start a thread for the 4367s and 4349s -- I'd  be interested in reading about both models.

What's an example of a currently produced speaker in the 4349's price range (give or take) that has similar dynamics and sound quality but measure better?