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2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238

Showing 8 responses by pani

pani
1,214 posts
 
I admire your enthusiasm for this classic turntable. I was using the Nouvelle Platine upgraded by Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 for about 5 years. I have also heard the Platine multiple times. You are absolutely correct on few things:

1. The suspension and low noise string drive allows the platine to provide a very silent background on which instruments float.

2. Replacing the suspension with any rigid cone or stillpoints makes the sound dry

3. Changing the string for fishing line, rubber belts or any such thing ended in an inferior sound

However, here is the thing about the sound of the Verdier which cannot be rectified. It sounds slow. The pitch is not true. I am very sensitive to accuracy of PRAT. It is a foundational attribute. Even a basic television or a $100 player gets it and thats why we are able to enjoy music on such elementary sources. Unfortunately, Verdier and many other players in the "high-end" do not keep the pitch and time. Probably because the designers have always chased the goals of an ultra silent, impressive playback. To me they are designers but they do not have the ear for accuracy of music. The world of audio is all filled with such people who do not get the structure of music and unfortunately at the helm of designs of the most expensive audio equipments. Same goes to reviewers who review these products. BTW, I did enjoy my time with Verdier, always knowing what it is missing. In the process I too tried all the tweaks like you and other Verdier owners.

Now I use a Jean Nantais Reference Lenco MK2. Not as quiet as Verdier but it plays music without the structure 
pani
1,214 posts
 
@ledoux1238, I get your sentiments. Since you are happy to explore and experiment, here are some more things I tried with the Verdier:

1. Changed the motor from the low torque philips to a high torque Maxon motor. Currently these are used in top TTs like Kronos. I did not change the motor housing. I just replaced the motor and added the feature to connect a battery based 12v power supply to it.

2. Initially I used a deep cycle 12v battery (used in high end health care systems). Their voltage does not drop or fluctuate.

3. I also connected a high quality capacitor bank between the battery and the motor. At each step in this experiment, the sound did improve but it did not change the fundamental character of the presentation.

4. I also tried photovoltaic cells for the purest possible power to the motor.

5. I added a 30kg flywheel in between the motor and TT for higher energy drive. 

Here is a system of a friend of mine who also uses Nouvelle platine verdier and incorporates all the tweaks I mentioned and a little more. Please watch the video till the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkk0zoSBSJw
pani
1,214 posts
 
No, it is a low inertia Philips motor. The maxon is about 3 times more powerful
pani
1,214 posts
 
Thank you @Ibelchev , I get your point.
The sonic difference between the Philips and Maxon was not much but I wanted a more powerful motor since I intended to try the flywheel experiment.  
pani
1,214 posts
 
@ledoux, that youtube video was to tell you how far people have gone to tweak the Verdier. I did not get to that point because that would have meant usage of a tape drive (like in the video) with appropriate modification to the motor capstan and also the flywheel in that video is a very expensive one designed by the person himself. Yes, it sounds very good after all these mods.

The sound of the idler to me is simply superior to many belt drives I have heard (including Verdier). The issue with idlers is to find a well done TT which is low noise and high resolution. In that respect a Nantais Lenco or a Shindo Garrard is very well done with all the qualities of idler (speed, dynamics & flow) with a very low noise floor.
pani
1,214 posts
 

Personally, I find the SP10MK3 score hi on the "HIFI" criterion, but I start to develop listening fatigue about an hour into the listening session. Many audiophiles would attribute this to the rapid speed correction, so call hunting, of the SP10MK3.

 

I don't know whether the SP10R is in a similar situation, but can't help to wonder if the added weight actually smooth out the speed hunting by making it harder for the  motor to adjust the speed rapidly!

@thekong once your ears are catch the DD distortion you will always catch it, no matter which DD you hear. Every direct drive TT has this issue of hunting which results in a non-continuous flow. The brain works to fill/interpret the gaps hence the fatigue. I have tried many DDs now, it is true with every one of them. Dont bother with DDs if you cannot stop bothering with this aspect of distortion.

 

pani
1,214 posts
 

@pindac since you are using a PTP Solid 9 which I also had. I suggest you replace the aluminum footers it comes with something simpler (steel cone) and also remove the O rings around the platter. These 2 "tweaks" by Peter damps the sound a lot

pani
1,214 posts
 

@pindac you are probably missing the point. We are not talking about speed fluctuation, we are talking about speed correction. Every TT has speed fluctuations and there are different correcting mechanisms. In direct drive like Technics the speed is corrected by a electronic circuit using a quartz lock. This correction happens many times a second at micro speed level in a DD. It is required because a DD motor rotates at only 33.3 rpm and the platter is part of the rotor which is rotating. Hence the error correction has to be very aggressive. Even a 0.5 rpm change is devastating while listening. But a BD and ID have motors rotating at 300rpm+. The platter rotates at 10th of the motor speed. Even if the motor speed changes by 1 rpm, the audible effect at the platter is much lower hence the error correction used is much more benign.

The continuous aggressive error correction is what gives DDs a certain character which people refer as discontinuous, fatiguing, analytical and so on. Not every one is sensitive to this character though hence if you do not hear, I envy you. IMO DD is the easiest way to get awesome honest and accurate sound from Vinyl except for this distortion.

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