2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

^^^
Albert
re: Audiophile Speed Anxiety

My direct drive turntable which I put together many years ago; can be seen on my virtual system and here..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vY1f2RWRWPbMFzxEA

is never at 33.33

It is always above or below. Such is the nature of that turntable's drive system. It will fool your Sutherland Gizmo, and this device will say the speed is good. The cheapest DD turntable, whose system uses a back and forth motion to correct speed, will fool the Sutherland Gizmo into showing correct speed. If passing this test makes one calm, I assume that is a benefit, as this may lead to enjoying the music.
But if it causes anxiety ?

The better La Platine test, is to get to a level of setup where one can turn the motor off for a second, turn it back on, and/or flick the thread as the music plays ....and neither of these activities are detected by the human ear in the music that is playing.... that is the real test.

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La Platine is not a plug and play turntable and depending on one’s system chain resolution, all of the following aspects affect the way the music plays. In no particular order.

1) Room humidity/temperature. The synthetic threads may be less prone to absorbing moisture.

2) Material and diameter of thread.

3) How tight the thread is applies.

4) Position on the Platter. (This for the benefit of the motor) The analogy I repeat, of helping a friend move a couch. Where does one grab ?

5) Thread distance from the pulley to the platter - will affect the torque applied. Think about a sling shot catapult length. Results vary depending on thread type and diameter.

Varying any of the above will affect things.

If your table is at 33.2 or 33.4 and the speed is consistent, that is what is important and music will sound as good as it can get. In both these cases your Sutherland Gizmo will drift left or right. As long as the drift is slow and consistent, and the music sounds wonderful, relax and enjoy it.

Cheers Chris

Albert
You need to see a $50 vintage dd turntable defeat the Gizmo then you will believe me. Blinking lights don't impress me. What I hear with my ears does. My turntable outperforms my Studer now, and the tape deck would need to be hot rodded. If someone wants blinking lights, nothing beats a tape deck.

The Music Lover uses this turntable to go through their collection, enjoying every minute, never giving it a second thought.
The Audiophile. ..... hmmm......variables.... 

@chakster 
You never answered my question in the other thread.
This one

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/verdier-platine-or-nottingham-analogue-hyperspace/post?postid...

If Chakster provides the answer to us, he will have also explained to Lewm why his post based on theory, does not work.

Cheers 

chakster I've noticed you've got those AT-616 pneumatic feet under your "naked" SP10 mkII that you're using with tonearm pod.

 

@chakster 

Look again.  the AT616 are no where near the SP10.

The Sp10 is held up by Solid SS columns. These columns are bolted into the Sp10 and the Plinth. 

The AT616 are then placed under this plinth - Three of them.

The Plinth holds the Armpod as well.

Understand that this setup went with through many versions.

Prior to the that Sp10 project I had personally built a plinth of multi layer birch / mdf and aluminum. I believe its around 50 lbs.

Here is a picture of it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XYRehswH3vhtABBP6

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What I was getting at with the AT616.

The AT616 are what I would call a first level good pneumatic suspension.

They are not as effective as the feet under La Platine.

I used the slate material as an example to you, because you were referencing a dealer on that other thread that sells alot of turntables made in slate which I imagine he gets from a local quarry. If you replace the AT616 with the slate you create a path both ways for vibrations.  

The turntable would no longer be self-isolating.

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@lewm @chakster 

lbelchev discussed La Platine concept/design on the other thread that both of you have posted to.  I believe the following post is eloquent and self explanatory. 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/verdier-platine-or-nottingham-analogue-hyperspace/post?postid...

^^^^

1. The CS Port LFT1 looks like a non-suspension plinth design, with a very heavy slate plinth. The actual resonance control is taken up by the air bearing, whereas the La Platine uses pneumatic footers. If as suggested by @lewm we defeat the pneumatic footers with solid blocks, then there would be no resonance controlling mechanism in the La Platine, as the magnets will not be serving that function. would that be correct?

Albert
Your statement is half right as it pertains to the Granito La Platine model. On the Granito model the resonance control is performed by a combination of the plinth and the pneumatic footers.

"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble becoming from different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement.
And of course machined and polished to obtain a good looking result. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities." JC Verdier

"Anyone", that suggests removing the footers and or changing out the Granito plinth - has not come to understand the design, concept, and execution of what is at play.

Furthermore.

The Granito version was very expensive to make. The story is on the Verdier website, and eventually led to the current modern day black glossy plinth. I have an email somewhere from JC Verdier on how a secondary Granito limited run was done at one time for the Japanese market, due to demand.

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Re: Platter System Braking Behavior

Unlike any platter systems that I used to be familiar with, in that they were ....free spinning. This platter system has what I would call, a form of active management.

"The same pole magnets play a part in providing braking action to deal with the records behavior." - JC Verdier.

Albert
With your turntable at speed and no record playing. Turn off the motor. Count the seconds for the platter to come to a complete stop.
Now repeat, and this time just cut the thread. The braking behavior will reveal itself to you.
One comes to realize with this experiment the marriage of the Verdier Motor and Platter System, and how foolish it is to split them up.

^^^^^^^

This so called "Ball"

When I first heard of this "ball" years ago, I immediately thought, it is no different than the stories I hear of some people actually using a belt with this thread design. I mean ...why even bother...seriously.

Go look for a belt drive design turntable.

So I asked JC Verdier about this so called "ball".

JC Verdier
So I will tell you another time what is told.
The possible installation of the ball was proposed to answer some customers who want to try to use the ball.
At the beginning it was only optional .
But later , to normalized the manufacturing , I included systematically the kit steel ball + ceramic past.
For my part I am not in favour of using the ball in accordance with the original design .
Probably you have this original design so you don’t have the steel ball.
Don’t worry about the stories of pirates , for sure some of them tried to attract customers by copies , because they are not able to conceive a product by themselves .
I don’t have any of them in hands and I have no comment on their working.
For sure that should be easy if only a steel ball could let a turntable work properly!
JC Verdier

So the lesson here is Business is Business even with Verdier.

The unfortunate thing is people acquiring a newer version of this turntable with a "ball" think it is normal.....do not understand the reason it is there.

fwiw -
I have never had to add oil to the reservoir on my La Platine Granito. It does not leak.

@lbelchev 
oh I have tried to add oil.
Unfortunately, unlike my 993, it doesn't take much. 8^(
I'm sure it is taking a little.

I don't see a debate with the ball. It's a Vibration Resonance (VR) activity to generate a small signal. Adding in additional points of conduit is never good. The manufacturer has done everything possible to isolate, especially in the use of dissimilar materials, to control resonances. The differing materials between the platter and spindle one example most never see.

Albert, from your most recent posts, one would think you would have been better off with one of the German tables. 8^0

This post comments addresses ......BBB

Ball, Bearing and Battery
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The Ball

Lewm
Not having owned a Verdier, I have no idea what the steel ball does; it sounds like it adds to or is integral to the mechanism of the brake.

@lewm  et al

It has nothing to do with braking, it is not integral to anything on a normal La Platine, but is integral..... to knockoff La Platines.

Platine "knockoffs" exist. They use bad magnets which by themselves are not stable. The ball was introduced to make the magnets stable. This is well known to long term La Platine owners. Mr. Verdier had no choice but to try to help these knockoff (pirate) manufacturers, since the questions, inquiries, concerns from people who purchased these knockoff turntables, were being directed to his company.

His website makes this clear and is I believe self explanatory .

I noticed that many of my Platine Verdier's pirates had a problem with the magnetic system.
Generally the repulsion force is not adequate and it is necessary to complete it with a ball spindle or any other samarium cobalt magnets on the top of the axel. That situation is boring because some of the customers turn away ignorant, they are facing copies and believing that the device is defective, bad designed or bad developed
To give a cure, I am going to indicate my pirates how to build magnetic circuits. The problem is that they use an ordinary steel high carbon tenor.
On magnetic point of view that metal is certainly provided with a weak "coercitive field", but too much important, which decreases the field provided by the magnets. The answer consists in using a magnetic alloy of suitable quality, for example TELAR 57 of ARMCO. when the tooling of the part is over, you have to realize a double fire under vacuum to eliminate the last carbon traces.
And then, to finish, you can paint. the magnetic circuits or realize a surface processing as "zincage bichromatage" which gives that lovely gilded colour. of course that is really more expensive and complicated than ordinary scrap-iron, but now you don't have any excuse.
Good luck pirates
J.C. Verdier

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Bearing

Xdr et al

As this is a resonance, vibration, hobby trying to generate a tiny signal, a large part of a Turntable and Tonearm "DNA" comes from the type of bearing used in both. I have owned / own turntables and tonearms with very different bearing systems.

Nouvelle Platine and La Platine play in different leagues. Different bearings.

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Battery

As far as the battery discussions go, I did speak with Verdier about this and looked into it in depth. My personal experience is this.

If one lives on a city grid, a condo, highrise, high density type of environment, etc... your power is compromised. This is fact.
Go ahead and try the battery if you desire. I will say the biggest improvement to my system kits, all of them, came when I moved to the country with clean, low density power. It was a night and day difference.

I don't own an electric car, yet, but all my cars and boats depend on good batteries for starting and trolling. Make sure the proper battery is chosen if you choose this project. Drain a starting battery just one time, it becomes compromised with a shorter life. Drain it twice and it is toast. The proper batteries "deep cycle" for this project in my neck of the woods start at $250.
  
fwiw
In the early stages of La Platine ownership and while in "Audiophilia Nervosa" phase ...8^0......I actually explored using my Technics SP10MK11 Platter/motor to drive La Platine.

My conclusion...this has possibilities with "dumb" free spinning platters. Most turntables. Not a good idea with a smart platter system, such as La Platine's, that includes braking. 
 
Stay Safe, Social Distance, Stay healthy.

ledoux1238
Somehow the combination of concrete, raisin, and stone chips doesn't seem to be a good resonance damper. I would like to be enlightened.

You are forgetting about the the Air Albert.

The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities. JC Verdier

Removing the pneumatic feet defeats the design.

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re; the motor

the stock motor gearing can be heard continuing after it is shut off. It reminds of a watch one winds up and one of the reasons, I assume, speed stability remains when I shut it off and on.

Your rotation numbers I am not sure of.
Going by memory (I am not at the property) when motor is shut off the gearing can be heard continuing and the platter spins for close to thirty seconds before coming to a stop. When it is running and the thread is cut, the time  to stoppage is much.much shorter. Braking action very evident.

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fyi et al
Before I even considered La Platine I was attempting to build an ultimate turntable with the direct drive project. I went through various stages. The next version would have replaced the Technics square casing with a Denon circular one. But then I discovered thread drive with the modded - VPI TNT.
Decoupling of components is important. My ET 2.5 tonearm air bearing spindle that holds the armtube/cartridge at one and counterweights at the other, was already isolated / decoupled with a film of air 360 degrees. No mechanical contact.
The Direct Drive mdf layered plinth with pneumatic footers was decoupled from the platform it sits on with the AT616 footers.  The casing for the motor platter system I attempted to decouple using 4 stainless steel legs. Raising it high with only 4 contact points. I moved to this after I realized all platters/motors encased in plinths color the sound. Many search for the right "color" in materials . 8^0.
The Tonearm brass pillar (20 plus pounds) attached to the plinth raises the ET 2.5 and allows for a happy face loop of single shot wiring.

When I became aware of La Platine, I saw it as a natural extension and progression of my own project, plus it had the decoupled and raised platter system. I could never ever have imagined this on my own efforts. Most importantly, it was designed as a thread design from the get go, not a modified belt drive like my TNT. I was not aware of the braking system at the time.

Cheers 
Stay Safe, Social Distancing, Stay Healthy 

^^^^^^
received reply same day from Eric.
 

Dear sir,

Thanks for your inquiry.

You can contact our US/Canada distributor at the following address : toneimports@mac.com

Best regards,

Eric Verdier.

@dracule1

I received a follow up email from Matthew at Pitch Perfect Audio, California.

https://pitchperfectaudio.wordpress.com/

He is a dealer representing JC Verdier and was referred by Tone Imports.

La Platine - $13,995 US Dollars.