100 Albums You Would wish for...from a Genie
This thread was inspired by this thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/building-a-100-album-vinyl-collection-3-must-have-albums-are
Please add to the above list. Thanks!
Okay, here is my premise for this:
I find an very odd, really old record in the $.99 cent bin in the back corner of some old, dusty record store. I pull the LP from the sleeve and a Genie appears. He says I can have any equipment/gear I want. Speakers, amp, preamp, etc. Just name it, (mbl Master Reference System and a custom room for it please.)...
...but, I can only have 100 albums forever to play on it. No "Best Of" or "Greatest Hits". No Box Sets or Compilations. Soundtracks are fine if original score, no Compilations. Double and Triple LP’s count as one album. (This Genie was very detailed in his instructions. He kinda looked like Donald Fagen).
What 100 albums would they be?
(I know I fudged on a rule or two, on a few of mine).
Allman Brothers-Idlewild South
Amazing Rhythm Aces-Too Stuffed To Jump
April Wine-Harder, Faster
Atlanta Rhythm Section-Red Tape
Bad Company-Straight Shooter
The Band-The Last Waltz
The Beatles-Abbey Road
The Beatles: Rubber Soul
Jeff Beck-Live At Ronnie Scott’s
Blackberry Smoke-The Whippoorwill
Blackfoot-Strikes
Karla Bonoff-Restless Nights
Boston-Boston
Jackson Browne-Late For The Sky
Jimmy Buffett-Songs You Know By Heart
Charlie-Lines
Chicago-Chicago Transit Authority
Eric Clapton-461 Ocean Boulevard
Eric Clapton-Slowhand
Marc Cohn-Marc Cohn
Shawn Colvin-Fat City
Cowboy Junkies - The Trinity Sessions
Creedence Clearwater Revival-Cosmo’s Factory
Crosby, Stills & Nash-Daylight Again
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young-Deja Vu
Christopher Cross-Christopher Cross
Miles Davis- Bitches Brew
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Dire Straits-Making Movies
Doobie Brothers-Toulouse Street
Eagles-The Long Run
Electric Light Orchestra-Out Of The Blue
Emerson, Lake & Palmer-Works Volume 1
Melissa Etheridge-Brave And Crazy
Donald Fagen-The New York Rock And Soul Review
Donald Fagen-The Nightfly
Fleetwood Mac-Rumours
Foghat-Foghat
Genesis-Invisible Touch
Hall & Oates-Private Eyes
George Harrison-All Things Must Pass
Head East-Flat As A Pancake
Heart-Dreamboat Annie
John Hiatt-Slow Turning
Hootie And The Blowfish-Cracked Rear View
Bruce Hornsby & The Range-The Way It Is
Indigo Girls-Nomads, Indians & Saints
J. Giles Band-Bloodshot
James Gang-Straight Shooter
Jefferson Airplane-Red Octopus
Billy Joel-The Stranger
Elton John-Goodbye Yellowbrick Road
Rickie Lee Jones-Rickie Lee Jones
Kansas-Leftoverture
Kiss-Dressed To Kill
Mark Knopfler -Shangri La
Alison Krauss-Forget About It
Little River Band-First Under The Wire
The Liz Barnez Band-Inkmarks On Pages
Shelby Lynne-Just A Little Lovin’
Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays-As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls
Steve Miller-Book Of Dreams
Joni Mitchell-Hissing of Summer Lawns
Van Morrison – Moondance
New Riders Of The Purple Sage-The Adventures Of Panama Red
Stevie Nicks-Bella Donna
Tom Petty-Damn The Torpedoes
Poco-Legend
The Police-Zenyatta Mendatta
Queen-The Works
REO Speedwagon-Ridin’ The Storm Out
Robbie Robertson-Robbie Robertson
Linda Ronstadt-Simple Dreams
Roxy Music -Avalon
Rush-2112
Sawmill Creek-Wild Western Windblown Band
Bob Seger-Night Moves
Paul Simon-Still Crazy After All These Years
Bruce Springsteen-Born To Run
Steely Dan-Aja
Steely Dan - Gaucho
Steely Dan-Two Against Nature
Styx-Crystal Ball
Cat Stevens - Tea for the Tillerman
Joss Stone-The Soul Sessions
Supertramp- Crime of the Century
Richard and Linda Thompson- Shoot Out The Lights
Toto-Hydra
Traffic-Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys
Trooper-Knock ’Em Dead Kid
Robin Trower-Bridge of Sighs
The Wallflowers-Bringing Down The Horse
Joe Walsh-The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get
Wings-Band On The Run
Wings-Venus And Mars
The Wonderful Sounds of Female Vocals
The Wonderful Sounds of Male Vocals
Yes-Fragile
Warren Zevon-Warren Zevon
ZZ Top-Tres Hombres
This is just for fun. I found a ton of albums off the thread, listed at the top, that I had forgot about. Was hoping to find even more. If you want to participate, cool! If not, please don’t.
I’m by no means expecting everyone to add a list of 100 titles. I thought it was a blast, but did take some time. I've also had a blast going back and relistening to a lot of these. Man, I sure missed them.
Play if you want...
(This is by no means a final, definitive list. Probably hundreds of more albums await...)
Everything sound better in a well optimized and well embedded system... If not, there is a synergy problem or perhaps an acoustic factor not well done... Everything sound good in my 2 system even the worst recording ... They sound better than they ever did... Then..........
One of the reason for this "problem" is that many audiophile confuse musical natural sounding system with "more detailed" one and especially brighter one...
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For sure you are right... Most audiophile love music... It is why i agonized and dreamed about a good audiophile sound all my life .... With no money but worst, no idea how to create one with no money...I learned it really after my retirement 7 years ago... The problem ( i must say here that i am a classical-jazz-world music traditions-purist) the pr9blem is most audiophile did not know how to create an audiophile experience at low cost using acoustics , mechanical and electrical basics... Then they obsess with sound ... They become dependant of their purchase not of their acoustic experience and experiments when they pose a judgement... What a serious audiophile here can think about 4 inches speakers box paid 100 bucks and modified by me ? Do you think that he can judge this an "audiophile" system ... Myself i judge it audiophile quality because of my aqcoustics modification , electrical one and even mechanical modification of the speakers box.. My sound is extraordinary... For sure i dont have a sub but i dont need one anyway... If i say how i created an extended bass and a better soundstage , "audiophiles" will laugh at me BY IGNORANCE...I did it with straws simple materials... I created an acoustic corner too... My soundfield is so good that it is better than most headphones , and my only one headphone beat most speakers in a living room... Total cost 700 bucks...
This is why even if your other post alternative between 1,000 bucks sytem and 10,000 music or the reverse had no real meaning as serious alternative it means something about "audiophiles"...And it is why you used it ... I am also an audiophile but not obsessed with sound because i learned how to create a good experience by myself not by purchasing .then i never entered into the upgrading wheel....
Acoustics basic science matter not the design specs of the newest costlier last product hyped by most... 😁
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Your dilemmas or alternatives expose the problem with us audiophiles... Because i consider being one if i dream about good sound all my life but never succeeded to create it till i seriously begun 12 years ago... I only succeeded in the last few years... First with speakers /acoustic room and second after selling my house a smaller headphone rig...+ smaller speakers...
I succeeded to reach audiophile level 2 times then ... Then i learned enough to know that your opposition make no sense because i am also a music lover... Money invested in music exceed by much the money invested in rig in my case... My total cost for my 2 system was ALWAYS under 1,000 bucks... 700 dollars now... I tried to upgrade 2 weeks ago with an investment of 1000 bucks for an a tube amp of great recognition and value but i returned it after 1 hour of trial for a refund...It was evident that one of the best tube amp was worst than my vintage S.S. Synergy matter yes, and the fact that some vintage S.S. are tube like is evident for me now.. This means how my actual system is already very hard to upgrade because it is already a top one with no EVIDENT disturbing faults in the acoustic perceived factors... I was being able to tune my acoustic room by myself and tuning my 100 resonators then i am not deaf and with a hearing of a very healthy man for his age...
Audio is based on basic knowledge and not at all on price tag... Those who think otherwise had forgottent long time ago by obsessive behaviour what are the basic of acoustic and how to use them and they are oblivious of the Ratio S.Q./ price of past high end top products... My actual amplifier i failed to upgrade it and i cannot upgrade my headphone anyway even if i would have the money without many, many trials and frustration , because they are a unique exceptional design in all headphone history never done anywhere in the last 45 years ... Then what ? Any man with a working mind will pick a low cost system which he will wisely choose for a low money cost and keep most of his money for music... The reverse is preposterous...😁 My situation is exactly what you describes: 700 bucks audio rig+ 10,000 musical albums.. i will die instead of picking the ridiculous reverse choice... Then your alternatives reflect misunderstandings, not the audiophiles nor the music lovers situation which are the same person in most of us.. 😊 Dont take it personal...I know you know already all of what i spoke about... I know you were half joking and making a sarcastic proposition... Then i take your post to describe my experience...Because some act exactly in the preposterous way you described in your alternatives... I wish you the best with my heart...
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Very interesting suggestions... Especially about the japanese jazz scene... I did not remember your very first posting as you said i was busy answering ... 😊
Then instead of throwing sarcasm ....because i suggested mine with my own takes in many posts i like saying why i picked them , anything interesting to say about music in the japan jazz scene? I like it too because japan musician seems to plays with a soul of their own... I listened a lot of them in the last year... Anyone less well known i must listen to ?
By the way i never answered a poster here by insults or sarcasm ONLY and MERELY WITHOUT arguments about the thread matter... It is my habit to discuss with arguments about a question... Mere sarcasm about people is useless if there is no meat around the bones...I prefer to gave positive opinion about people than the reverse...But i answer to those who prefer the opposite...😊 Why not using our brain with our mouth... I am not Mr. Vertinsky...I admired him and like this photo expressing distress,sadness, but resilience in this world... Clowns are professionals... OH! yes my ego is there too much sometimes, but if you trail me you will discover that i try to gave more positive than negative to people... In the meantime thanks in advance for a recommendation about the jazz japan musical scene...
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It is a thread where you must suggest your musical 100 albums... If you had something to suggest go... you have the right ... But one hundred suggestions ask for many posts... Then this thread is not about me nor about any other idiots😊 as you and me, but about suggestions and also explanations... Go instead of throwing one line post exclamation without any content...
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Music is about the power of the human voice... Orpheus had gone to hell and came back by the power of his voice and music... Music is about objective facts not about our tastes... Try this about Octavist voices:
What is a bass profundo and an octavist voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B9LREuIa4I
How it sing transporting the chorus on his back as a light backpack or as a boat separating the waves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWihxRM9bU
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Your taste dictate to you that you dont like much Japan music... You are wrong... 😊 Everybody like poetry...Even when he does not know it yet... listen to this few minutes each week.... In less than a year it will be among your favorite... We dont know what we will like the most yet because we dont know ourself...Our attention is over there without us... Why? Music is a stuff made only of pure attention and pure awareness... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayNhc8_oSs8
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Music is about truth ... a growing encompassing truth... Ask John Coltrane or ask Scriabin... |
What now music is all about? It is about awakening the spirit in the dead or in the living body...
Two masters here suggested how to let it happen by opening ourself to the irrepressible FLOW of joy and energy which is life itself emerging ... my first persian music album and one of the best ever by Ostad Elahi a mystic sufi who only play to pray and was recorded by his disciples : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuTVYcLDq9c Now the same irrepressible energy perceived by Beethoven : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDpDwZZA248
Music is about objective facts perceived by the soul in itself as in the cosmos... This had nothing to do with my tastes or yours ... |
Music is about the cosmos and about Nature as seen by man... Not about consumers tastes ....😊 The more visionary the music is the more valued it may be...
Two different culture but the same visionary perspective on Nature in his own specific way...
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Music is about musicians not about our tastes first and last... Here two completely unrecognized geniuses from the jazz world , geniuses as musicians first and not as mere jazz man... Giants ... Rahsaan Roland Kirkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIqLJmlQQNM
Sun ra : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovUUlNkcbpY&list=PLnQJF3Qi_4_BD5c99vxEP36ulwJapmdnS&index=4&t=145s |
Music is about geniuses where we discover them why and when ... Music is not about our mere tastes...But about our discoveries out of our tastes starting line... A genius here Kaikhosru Sorabji https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCs0YeBOmOQ Another genius it seems, Elliott Carter... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MArB2OrLeSc&list=OLAK5uy_lIDYwOBZFmJNHqXcVgeC3xdeUQYcqbqlQ
Being less timid than you i myself strongly suggest to listen to my list... 😉 |
You already answered yourself to your own question... A mantra, a devotional song, is not about esthetic , it is more about efficient power to put the mind in a trance state or in another level of attention... It is more about medecine and ethic than pure esthetic... Music is more about Power to heal than just about our consumers tastes in esthetic... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AGyrEV_ze0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmxb51FFvRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzhCFO13Q-o
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Music is about Madness too... music can be madness ... here two different forms the first is sarcasms and pirouettes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpzW7RH0cgY Or it can be about compulsive obsession : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r30D3SW4OVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VErKCq1IGIU
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Music is about a lost past , a forgotten one which can reappear in our own memories (reincarnation exist ) Peter Pringle is a popular singer who let fame and money long ago and dedicated his days to ancient languages, musical ancient instrument reconstruction and pure music born from the relation between cosmos and the body... A bard like Bob Dylan but ressuscitated from an ancient past... |
Music is also about Pure Joy ... Only pure uncorrupted joy... Listen to it here with Hildegard de Bingen and with the Pygmies choral: Same human soul, same music from two different worlds... |
Now the primal rythm of creation in two expressions very different one : One is the australian aborigenal rythm... The other is the pure mathematical expression in sounds of the prime numbers distribution which is the cosmic ground itself... Music is about cosmic rythms aspects perceived by us ... Not about mere tastes... Creation music : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAcH8TNkWOQ Distribution of primes music created by one of the great living mathematician from the primes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBArTv71Edk
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I was always fascinated by the power of human voice... Here we can listen a female voice putting a complete metal orchestraq in the background by his strong expressiveness power and content alone... I dont like particularly metal... But there is revelation eveywhere even in metal music... Music is not about our tastes... music is about real power in the cosmos.... |
Now listen to this Charles Ives "the unanswered question"... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tNA_DbpJjU
And for those who think that there is no more in music that a question about tastes listen to the explanation and analysis about this 6 minute work composition ... |
I will quote here the first commentator under this youtube channel rendition , one of the best of one of the greatest Choral Work Of visionary Bruckner : «The last performance of Bruckner's TE DEUM ,which Bruckner himself attended, was conducted by Richard von Perger at the suggestion of Johannes Brahms. On his copy of the score, Gustav Mahler crossed out "für Chor, Soli und Orchester, Orgel ad libitum" (for choir, solos and orchestra, organ ad libitum) and wrote "für Engelzungen, Gottsucher, gequälte Herzen und im Feuer gereinigte Seelen!" (for the tongues of angels, heaven-blest, chastened hearts, and souls purified in the fire!). The composer himself called the work "the pride of his life".» https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeYuPPP1-Qw
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Music is not about tastes... Music is about real life poetry...As in the Yoruba talking drums... There is many ways to "talk" ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFCCDs7xOkA
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I am fascinated by the expressive depth and intensity reach by the Murderer Prince of Venosa Carlo Gesulado and his musical genius.. His tortured music with almost modern accent is the perfect expression of a tortured and devored consciousness in a purgatory of his own... His music is like a set of flames.... Unique in musical history... My favorite interpretation favor the emotion content translation instead of accentuating the esthethic aspects for their own sake... Here too music is about death and life and not a mere distraction.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8iBHVvWxCA&list=PL-z1Tx-3D_SeCkavLkULXYDznGJA1JCzn |
Another of my "tastes" choice for a list : One of the great Turkisch master of oud , Necati Çelik.. All Jimi Hendrix fans as i am will love it too...😊
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FElmnfSSQ_g&list=OLAK5uy_mX8N44jggln4Jd0AekKJ_g7BPyi35xxJM |
Yoruba drummings explained... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHFIJZm2dzw&t=912s Yoruba drummings by a master : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4oQJZ2TEVI&t=11s It show how music is grounded in Society, in history, in biology and in Nature... Music is not about "tastes"... It is about life... |
I have no patience with someone who instead of reading my post and trying to understand my argument put words in my mouth...I am not perfect... 😊 My posts were never about the value of my tastes against the value of your taste or against everybody tastes.. Our tastes are our ENTRY door into music ... They are the starting point of our journey they are not our tombstone... Our limitations (tastes) because tastes are also limitations must not be obstacles and justifications of our own ignorance.. i never claim that a piece of music is inferior to another one , and yoruba drumming is not inferior or superior to 17Th century folk music or to Bach compositions... IS IT CLEAR FOR YOU ? I said that the rooting and grounding of music in the body/brain and in Nature, the history of music over millenia transmitted in what we called TRADITIONS delimited what is OBJECTIVE VALUES about music... Commercial music born after Bernays marketing methods MAY lack these interesting growing roots to an extent that some of our "tastes" about commercial music may be too superficial... I claimed that commercial marketed music is SOMETIMES inferior to any musical forms in human history , by the definition itself of commercial music : a commercial product IMPOSED by artificial conditioning ... Then i never said that Pygmies music which is rooted as Bach music in an history and in the playing and acting Body/brain in a socially grounded context are inferior or superior... A.I. produced music so interesting it will be will not be created by musician inhabiting a body and a cultural history... This ring a bell ? I am not patient with you because you tried to put your words in my mouth...
Then inform yourself... You say that you dont attack me , this is false, you tried to twist my observations to suit your subjective relativism... For example :
Sorry to inform you that science , art, and litterature, and societies are about VALUES, and none of this values are equal... Music created to entertain people in an escalator or used in a commercial mall is not the same as a musical jazz event ...Distinguishing is not condemning.... It is thinking... Again my post is not about naming names of commercial products to discredit them... This will be not only stupid, because conmmercial product are also created by embodied musicians coming from their own cultures... As i said the borders separating "commercial consumerist products" from genuine cultural products is not a clear line ... it is a CONCEPT... This concept is necessary to distiguish music coming from a cultural history with his specific language and and from a human body , distinguishing it from at the other extreme : A. I. created commercial music with no ORGANIC roots in the human body nor in the human real living history... Is it clear enough? Or do you maintain that all is equal and relative, our tastes are absolute judges, and our understanding must be stop and lay dormant with our uneducated tastes ? Myself I dont think so because of these OBJECTIVE facts... About body/brain/soul and cultural history of consciousness... Calling me "unclassy" and someone who spoke "fancy-shmancy academic talk" will not help you... And Dont put your arguments in my mouth... Accusing people of being ELITIST is a tactic i dont appreciate... Elite exist by the way and must be recognized... they must not be imposed and in this we can be in agreement at the condition to respect the existence and concept of elite and not reducing it to relativistic nihilism ... I dont critic people about their tastes, i critic people who stick to their mere tastes as a rule... or WORST i oppose people who for the sake of their own tastes impose a void relativistic perspectives upon us all ... Music is a cosmos not a children bathroom for the leisure of workers in their after hours ...It is way more than a hobby... Am i clearer ? And dont come back saying that i despise workers who relax with their tasteful musical choices each evening with "commercial" product... I relax too... But i think too between relaxations...
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I am not born with a taste for the Chinese erhu music nor for the Japan koto... Any music must be LEARNED.... And love sometimes come when we are ready... This does not m,eans that i will necessarily love Elliot Carter the way simonmoon argue for his greatness... But simonmoon AWAKE what perhaps will be called my ignorance tomorrow... Thanks to him...
I never cease to love my innate taste musical choice : choral music all my life... ( not opera that i learned how to appreciate much , much later ) But i learned to appreciate all other music culture and styles ( not so much commercial music ) i did not love so much at first or not at all some music BY IGNORANCE and LACK OF ATTENTION... I prefer to the actual pop commercial music his old roots in folk songs in England for example... By the late Alfred Deller for example...It is my tastes here... 😊 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UZ3vvsfBI&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGQqxsWaJg7M94p1aTSJ4Hm
It is normal to have preferences, it is ignorance to reject all the rest for all our life... That was my point... i will try Elliott Carter as suggested by simonmoon... I will go slowly because it is not my "taste"... But i will LEARN something and sometimes miracles happen, and our mind open to new unsuspected possibilities... This is music experience for me... Not only confort, relaxation, feeling, thinking, but the will to go where no one bodly goes... 😊 I never listen any jazz when young nor pop... I learned a lot with trying to understand jazz in the last 20 years...
I thank you for your post... You are very sensible astute man and you get my point completely here thanks very much ... Music is not ALWAYS about esthetical tastes...It is way more... Polyphonic pygmies songs act the way Mantras do and Bajhans do and i love very much all of them ... Here our soul speak... It is way more than just "music taste"... Sacredness exist too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnogT0JsJJ0&t=1311s
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First i dont know about which post of mine you talked about ? I never suggested and spoke HERE about people listening Bach or Beatles on a cell phone as inferior to audiophile with acoustic room ... I said listening music as hearing sounds must be LEARNED not only by babies and children growing but even by us adults... THATS IS A FACT... Then dont put in my mouth your own limited opinion or understanding or prejudices ... Kafka is better than harlequin books in LITTERARY VALUE but i dont judge people liking harlequin by saying so... did you understand ? The reason is simple, we must all learn and grow... Myself included... i already say that in my discussion with simonmoon who put something interesting in motion ... I dont pretend to any authorithy, but this dont means that i am a total ignorant either ..
For sure music is not a mere "subjective" mess randomly distributed in all cultures, that we must treat as superficial subjective tastes in a relativistic manner as you suggested ...Those who think so are ignorant thats all...I apologize to say so but i say it... It is MY OPINION HERE... Pygmies Polyphony and Bach polyphonies has something in common : they express something very deep about the spirit and grounded in history... This is A FACT not my opinion... The taste of someone liking Bach and pygmies polyphonies or not dont change THE FACTS.... Music is based on the body/brain/ throat/heart/soul/ etc music is ROOTED in the human metabolism and music is grounded in the way human related to each other and communicate and perceive the world...THIS IS OBJECTIVE FACT.... Then it is not mere" subjectivity"...This is the starting point to understand the VALUES of the different manifestation of music... Commercial music is not yoruba drumming... The content is not the same at all.... The experience is not the same at all ... The goal and the richness is not the same at all... Each one of us we had our "tastes"...But they dont matter at all here... There is an objective grounding in the physical and spiritual BODY...Music is not only a mere hobby here music is not only a mere commercial enterprise ...Sorry... Perhaps for you it is a mere hobby and a product to consume following our "tastes"... It is more for me and it is more for those who studied music and philosophy of music ...And i am one even if i dont claim any authorithy as you LABELLED ME ... I discussed with simonmoon and we tried to understand each other , imitate him instead of cornering me and putting something in my mouth... Music is not only a deep therapeutical means, WHICH IS ALSO AN OBJECTIVE FACT and this is an OBJECTIVE fact too: it is also, even if you ignore it, the vehicle of human consciousness as manifested in certain way in all cultures... In face of all these deep objective facts, saying that all is about "tastes", and consumers choices is not only childish and preposterous, it is useless as an opinion HERE in this discussion ... And yes i can speak seriously on this matter, i never pretended to any authority, but i object and it is my opinion , i object to superficiality and relativism and consumerism ... Music is not mere subjectivity , no more than sound is just a mere subjective phenomenon... I can demonstrate why but it will take too much place...😊 Inform yourself before put a label on me ...
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I will add that we are in the same situation with the question of what a "sound" is... There is no scientific consensus about sound and hearing... what is a sound perceptive quality and information and how we access it ...
We know though a little bit more than what you just said here... This is your opinion indeed but not a fact... First one thing is sure, music created by man is a "sound" production related to the human body/brain/ears ... This is not my opinion here... But a fact... Then there exist a root of this created "sounds" in the human body...Music and language are born together and are coming from the same root which is the body tripartite basic systems.. ...This is also a fact... Must i add that this is my opinion to calm you ? ... 😊 Music is not about our taste only , music must be learned the same way in which we must learn how to act our body , that was one of my point; then there exist some different music with different healing and informative power...All is not purely relativistic and about our given "tastes" here as you seems to suggest ... Music grounded in a tradition has not the same value for me than commercial music... And yes the line delimiting them is not clear at all... This is a fact and also an opinion here... 😁 Sorry but there is a value hierarchy that cannot be imposed but is easily spotted by musicians learning their trade... A yoruba drummer for example know this, he know the difference between meaningful rythm which "speak" and rythm which did not "speak" in his language ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZOg4xIiulw&t=741s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4oQJZ2TEVI&t=7s ( the best book on music i read is about yoruba drum and sound perception and meaning by the way ) 😋
As in litterature, harlequin litterature is not Dostoievsky or Mark Twain... i will add that is is my opinion for sure ... Who s opinion could it be ? mine... is it the absolute truth ? No... But i bet i am not alone here with this OPINION.... 😊
In litterature as in music we MUST LEARN how to understand and appreciate, because our innate taste means little, it is a beginning not an end ...Comic books are not Kafka... By the way each musical traditions contains an history of consciouness through the way the spirit/body relate to sound in a specific way , extending in millenia sometimes...It is a fact not my opinion ... Do not say then that in your opinion, all opinions about music are equal, because they are not... No more in music than in litteratrure and science.... Music is not only a consumers leisure tasteful choice... It is way more IN MY OPINION... 😊
By the way my statements are not " erroneous" they are incomplete .... Calling them "my opinion" or not had nothing to do with their POSSIBLE meaning has you suggested in your own unsatisfying and at the end erroneous relativistic perspective... Music express sacredness and values not only esthetical arbitrary meaningless choice as a consumer purchasing a product instead of another...
Music also contain a part of our consciouness history which is hidden in sounds and rythms... This is why all musical traditions of the world matter and why we must learn from EACH OF THEM... This has nothing to do about tastes...
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First we cannot replace our musical tastes favorites by other musical choices , especially for example in classical vocal music if we dont like it in general... Second we must stay open heart and listen to some one dat that can open this closed door for us which is vocal classical music... No doing so this new vocal classical music will not change our basic tastes... They will only improve it by enlarging our scope and deepening our relation with our innate tastes choices... Third we cannot learn how to listen to "sounds" which are annoying for us...But in all the vocal classical there is songs thar are in now way exagerately annoying... Miracles of naturalness exist... Miracles of expressions that transcend vocal classical to manifest the art of pure expression and not mere singing even beautifully... I will give 2 examples... If you dont cry listening that you need a heart...It is no more singing...Because she pray really, she dont merely sing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7K2hJBzTm0 The number of singers able to sing like this are more numerous in heaven than on earth 😊 Now the same in his prime younger years : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GksRp42s3S8&list=RDGksRp42s3S8&start_radio=1 Deep river: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bytFrsL4_4 Crucifixion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiFEOhZ8Jb4 MarIan anderson never studied too much formally and being black opera and lied singer goes up to the top of the world by his voice power alone ... She can sing ANYTHING, jazz, spirituals, operas, lieds or Bach and be the best there is... It is my favorite singer.... I was shoked when i listened to her the first time... By the way as you i dont like vocal music so much... But there is exceptions... These are some of the exceptions... Now another contralto;Aafje Heynis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3a9QXnRHK4
Another contralto sublime: Kathleen Ferrier...on par with Marian Anderson , which is a feat almost impossible to do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3J2e-L62bY
now another register : Elisabeth Schwarzkopf soprano. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0vSC9DUhU
And a modern opera to help you.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR33bL5aNTk&t=2192s And now serious thing with only celestial voices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei88J4lERbk
Now my favorite choral music album of all time : I listened to it really more than one thousand evenings, i had counted it really ...😊
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnZQ0EPuNqk Schutz was coming back from Italia...He combined styles and created for me his most astounding work, with a rythmic expressive power putting him beside Bach who admired him... This music is like a " drug" , it move us creatively by stimulating enthusiasm.... Close the door, listen and it will not change your taste... It will open your mind to voices from another realm...
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This is precisely why i reacted to your post the way i did... Most people will feel Bach art of the fugue and Beethoven last quartets as "boring"... I perfectly understand that you love Elliott Carter... Or any "thorny " contemporary " atonal or others music... I did not understood "boring" associated with Monteverdi or Gesualdo or Bach...
Most people had never learn about music anyway, they dont listen not only Carter or Bach, but they put commercial pop music at the center...
Music is deeply rooted in the human body and soul... What we listen to we become... One thing i discovered is music is less about our tastes than about the way we learn how to hear and how to listen... Then when they defend their "tastes" they advocate in fact for their limitations... As i did in a way criticizing your "tastes" and advocating for my tastes... I am not perfect.... 😊 I must learn about Eliott Carter more.... Because doing so i will die with more in me than my limited tastes...I will acquire new one...😁
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I reacted to your provocative claim about Bach being boring for YOU....If you were in pop music i would have not reacted... For sure , the music you call "thorny" is mostly boring for me... Then we are on the same subjective footing ... I, as you did , gave my take... Music is for me always intimately related to a historical tradition... Be it Persian or classicaL OR jazz... And for me music is related to body rythms and not only to the mind... Then any composer who go to far and cut too much link with his tradition appear a bit boring to me and not healthy... But as you said it is subjective and we even may like the same composer with our own different reasons... But claiming to be "bored" by Bach art of the fugue and the last quartets of Beethoven is astounding for me coming from someone liking music... It is a gesture ....😊 You like to be provocative , i reacted... For me Scriabin or Sorabji or Robert Simpson are not less a giant than Carter...They are not "thorny" for sure... Take my answer as a "gesturing" answer like your post was...😊 No one go on the same road to the same house... You are right about that... My best to you...
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I read that as a pretty amazing post...
Music is not about tonality versus atonality... Etc... Music is about visible architecture and rythmical times ....And musical time is way more complex than physical time... I prefer Persian and Indian music or chinese and japan to all dodecaphonic , seralism and other for me artificial written system with no possible historical emotional background for the musician interpretation ... It is music without history or feelings...Boring in a word... Silence is better... I dont deny that some of these works can be interesting and they are , like Berg concerto for example... i valued improvisation and musician microdynamic management and emotional investment in his improvised interpretation of classical music.... Music is about feeling, willing, and thinking...It is a tool to put consciousness to another level...It is why musical time with his 2 dimensions, horizontal and vertical, instead of a line or instead of a timeless set of notes, is so complex... In serialism music is disconnected of the natural rythms of human metabolism ...Rythms and times may be cosmical but must not loose their link with the human body... Scriabin i admired so much succeeded in doing this... You cannot call Bach "art of the fugue " boring... You make me smile at least... 😊 You cannot call Beethoven quartets "boring" and hoping to be taken seriously...Sorry... 😊 Boring means : no surprize, no complexities, no emotions... I think that the most boring music ever written is the music by Shoenberg serialism...There is no "time" in this music...It is really a simplistic music... A music where rythmical times are evacuated and we are let in a no man’s land of sounds ... This music attracted no more any great interest because composers need a public and need interpreters more than they need a "fancy" abstract new language... You had never seen what is in Bach art of the fugue , it is like calling Euclidean geometry boring... It is not even wrong, it reflect only your limit not the Euclid geometry status ... And you cannot answer to me that serialism is like fractal geometry compared to Euclidean geometry... Because in music time is the central concept and rythm of times not deconstructed forms as Mandelbrot geometry deconstructing Euclidean concepts of dimensions...Because music is rythms of time and times of rythm not visual forms not mere "notes" systems...Serialism is like Chaos theory compared to complexity theory, in complexity theory we see how emerge order from chaos... Serialism is born from classical musical history, it is a "moment" of this history, not his culmination and his abolition in timelessness.. Most of the composers you like had no interest at all for me...Because they lost rythm and time... Musician playing this are robots... I prefer Charles Ives and Scriabin... Scriabin is a genius who unlike Schoenberg did not create an algebraic system , his genius dictated and improvized his last sonatas between tonality and atonality in a clever way... There is a place for emotions there ... For opera try Akhnaten of Philip Glass a masterpiece ressuscitating the spirit of Egypt ... For something different try : Ostad elahi...Supreme master of rythms... Or Nikhil Banerjee...A god in India... And you will see what is "non boring" music... I prefer Sun Ra to Schoenberg... Each one has his gods i imagine... 😊 Anyway i apologize for my answer... It is very interesting to have so divergent oppposite opnion... Dont take it personal... I like discussion... You are not as the average dude then my post is not only a complete reversal of your opinion but a compliment to someone who dare to speak his mind...
Music is rythms as the heart is rythms and the cosmos rythms and we need Nature to recognize cosmic rythms and musical history to understand music...We cannot reduce nature to transhumanism 2.0 and reduce music to serialism... Listen to African speaking Yoruba drummers masters to know about non boring music ...Not Schoenberg..
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