To cryo or not to cryo

I don't personally see the opinions as cancelling each other out. The problem comes when you talk to electrical engineers, the not so smart ones, that think their models are more than just an approximation of reality. If they believe their 'characteristic impedence' formulae are perfectly accurate then they will never get cryo or burn in concepts. But if you talk to applied physicists and quantum physicists you can find that there is much science around how electrons channel a signal through a cable, that this is affected by the alignment or otherwise of metal crystals, and that this channeling can be formed over a period of time and depends on the frequencies the cable is subjected to. I am working with scientists on this phenomenon at present. Don't mistake ignorance on the part of some scientists as a lack of scientific evidence. And no, I am not going to produce anything more for you here until we are ready to publish - that's how I am getting the free input of these guys, they are excited to be able to apply their knowledge to a real world problem, but want to publish under their own names. I suggest you go to your local university and talk with the particle theory guys, and preferably the ones that are seeking practical applications of this science. I discovered this area of science when dining with a friend and describing some of the conductor treatment issues I was struggling with, and she burst out that what I was talking about was precisely what she did her Masters thesis in. Its real guys, its just that few are aware of it.

Redkiwi,
When I mentioned "cancelling out" I was only refering to this thread not to any broader context. As for cryoing, I believe that it can indeed impart beneficial qualities in some materials for certain purposes. There are many variables in the process however and these can lead to variables in the results. There are skeptical members on this board and for the most part justifiably so. Unfortunately this subject seems to raise some hackles.
I know that in some industries parts are routinely cryo'd to increase durablity so there are those who realize this subject is more than voodoo.
There are many phenomenon that I'm not equiped to understand (including this one) but I don't dismiss them offhand nor do I deny their existence.
BTW: I understand the process can also destroy some materials.

Yes - cryo does benefit copper and brass for the purposes of better sound. Gold, silver and palladium appears to me to benefit little or even get worse in some cases. As Chris Ven Haus reports plated conductors are also a mixed bag.

The naysayers are usually psychologically disposed to wanting the world to be fully explained and have an aversion to something that isn't - and have rarely tried to experience the issue for themselves. Then there are the gullible that want there to be new unexplained things and will buy on any marketing hype dreamed up. Both are simply classic personality types. Debate between them goes nowhere, and indeed as you say, cancel each other out. And they also create a lot of useless noise on these sites so that intelligent discussion is usually buried. But not too deep.

I was not intending to contradict you Rja, just to report that with a bit of research there is indeed scientific evidence of the effects of cryo treatment and burn in, so we don't have to be confused by the meaningless cancelling out of opinions between the naysayers and the gullible. In fact I pretty much agree with your points.

hello,
I've enjoyed many responses, RedKiwi especially. Some
of the others, "sell me a bridge" seem like a waste of
reading time. However, why is it we can believe in the
manipulation of !80 processing core !devices on a
computer (this week's announcement) and refuse (some
of the block heads I've known ) to believe that there
is a difference in digital cables "because it's all
just 1s and 0s". Steven Hawkin can think at his
computer and type 2 letters per second. Why do I
mention these things? Well, to say that there are
things going on that we maybe yet cannot explain, but
similar things are being manipulated and measured; and
maybe someday we will be able to explain. Is there one
person on her who hasn't heard the difference in
digital cables? How can that be if it's all "just 1s
and 0s"? We are still in the swamp if we accept that
brass connectors are as good a conductor as copper,
are as good as OFC, are as good as HCC, are as good a
coductor as Silver. However, speed and depth are often
difficult to obtain at the same time. Silver is a
faster conductor, yet is the hystersis that you are
avoiding, the worst thing? The difference in silver is
how it is annealed. What is that, other than a the
processing of the metal to make a better metal. It is
like the difference between drawn and poured copper.
Okay, all analogous? Maybe not enough for some, but
those two, and cryo effects are in a close similarity
but via different means. Who here does not believe in
annealing? Does that person only believe because they
read it in a way that pleased them? If it had been
written in a manner that was "over their head" they'd
come away without belief. For those of us who would
say, that when molecules stop moving, they can settle
into closer proximity; (a less than quantum
explanation) is that good enough? A silver digital,
can sound different than a copper one. Suspend
disbelief if
you've not heard it, and go try some. If you are in
the "I must hear it" or the "I'll never hear it" then
you've alread go a strong "mind over matter" and you
can hear what you want, without a sound system, as it
is only giving suggestions and not sound you are
hearing. But lets go deeper, compare a high purity
silver, with that same silver that has been gold
plated. If you can, compare that to some "pure" (I
can't even define that in this case) *gold wire and
see if you do not hear a difference. Silver, copper,
aluminum, and gold are the top 4 conductors. Try this,
and tell me there is not a difference in sound. You
should be able to do this in audio, or your system is
two cups and a string. But you will most probably be
able to tell this is the digital rhelm. Why? Someone
more articulate can explain it. A big fan of cryo is
Jim at P.A.D., Stu at Vampire can explain it, Ed
Mitner was one of the first to use it; Mr. Wright,
(his head teck, who disagrees with proffit margins)
believes in cryo's effects. My AM listening Dad, can
pick out cryo'd vs non cryo'd CDs (two copies bought
at the same time one treated one not) he can also hear
the difference between those treated by Geoff's chip
and those not. It is actually a similar effect for
those who've heard one and not the other. But unless
you are a "Levinson, it must sound the best" or "there
can't be a difference in something I choose not to
believe" type; you may have to step up to the
responsibility of experience. I have found every
cryo'd a/b examination I've done to show it to be an
audio improvement. Maybe somewhere it could make
something lose depth wor weightiness; but I've not
heard it. I say it sounds more like the upgrade from
brass to OF copper jacks. "Just cleaner and clearer".
Can anyone here explain how simple electronic theries
speak for the differences in power cables? If we think
about it as a bass cable, sure it all applies, and
that's what it seems to sound like. But though it is
only operating at 50-60 hz, the characteristics are
that of the full range. So how does that equate? If
you have the spare, time, (I;'ve done it) compare a
silver outlet and a gold one. (redefine, ACME, without
cyote and roadrunner stickers silver plated vs
Furuteck Gold plated). it will possibly open your
mind. Where is the sense in saying that something
can't exist? If it is to fight for all of our good, so
that we *sheeple are not taken by those who would want
us to see the Emperor's new clothes" it in fact is
worse. Those who can be fooled will, those who can be
fooled and can afford may buy, those who can't afford
won't, so it narrows the margin; and those who despite
the campaining will still try to listen... will hear
or not hear the diff. comparatively, saying "it just
ain't so, it just ain't so" is saying "a human, cannot
experience", "a human won't experience", and beyond
human experiece "I can measure the smallest degree
that you can't in order to determine it ain't there".
Maybe they do change the set-up of TVs, but do they
also put one amp through a power cleaner and the
comparison amp straight into the wall? Unless you've
been there for 20 min to 2 hours, are they both
equally warmed up?
I've never been to China, but they say it's there...
oh Hi Marco, how was your trip?

Will you like it? ?????? Cryo can make a difference in
the audio experience, don't tell me please, that I've
not heard it. What kind of metal does your
manufacturer use in their RCA's? :)

Once again this is a question answered all too often by those who don't have a system that will reveal enough detail to let them hear differences so they must not exist.

I have a dealer friend that had one of his monoblock amplifiers cryo treated, we teased him for a month about his posicle and how it sounded like crap, it was terrible. But then after about a month of playing it started sounding significantly more detailed and clean. He had to do the other one so they would match.

The people who don't believe something works should ignore questions about the things they don't believe in spending their money on, the opinions they offer have nothing to bring to the table.