Some amplifier questions

Tim, Thanks for checking on stands for me. I did order the KEF LS50s yesterday. I talked to one of their guys about a center. It appears their are about 4 options that would work. The R200, R600, Ls50 or no center. He seemed to think all were good options. I am still a bit up in the air about which amp to get. There are a couple of Parasound A31 amps on the for sale section. I just don't know what is reasonable to pay for them. I haven't bought the Emo amp yet thinking I may run into something that I might like better. I am plodding along and will probably get it all together next week.

Finsup,

A similar comment has come up before in this thread. You are completely correct; many simpler, less expensive,solutions for Wemfan's originally posted question currently exist that would produce better sq than the supplied amp and speakers in his hdtv. However, I have the impression that Wemfan wants and enjoys high quality sound that is a few steps above mass market level sq and is willing to spend more to achieve it.

Audiogon members, basically, are all searching for, or have achieved, similar sq goals on a wide range of budget levels and varying levels of success in their sq quests. Wemfan can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he wants to build an audio system that matches the performance level of his Panasonic plasma and new Oppo 105 universal player. Both are products that perform a few steps beyond the levels of mass market consumer electronics. Both are also at their best when paired with good ancillary equipment like Wemfan is seeking.

My opinion is that, once he experiences how well his new system performs on both ht and music audio, his ratio of 90% ht and 10% music ratio may very well shift more toward the music portion.

Wemfan,

I'm actually really enjoying your system construction. Part of the reason, I think, is because I have a Panasonic 65" plasma and Oppo 105 in my system and know how meaningful they are in creating a high performance system. I know firsthand how these 2 components, combined with a good amp and very good speakers, are going to make you smile every time you use it and enable you to appreciate the time and money you invested in your system.

Both the Kef R200C an R600C would make a good match soundwise for the LS50s. The R200C is (6.7 x 20.9 x 12 in.) and the R600C is (7.9 x 24.8 x 13.2 in.) so the 200 would fit your rack better but the 600 may be too large.

Parasound makes very good class A/B amps. They have a reputation for high quality and amps that perform well over many yrs of service. So buying a used one might be a good choice. I don't know the going rate for used A31 3-ch amps but know the retail price when new was $3,000. But remember, it's a good idea not to equate price with sq. The Emotiva is less expensive but may sound as good or better to you. Others may disagree, but I think both A31 amps currently listed for sale here seem overpriced.

The A31 is a large amp that weighs about 65lbs. It also can run very warm/hot so it requires a well ventilated rack location.

If it was my money, which I tend to spend less freely than yours, I would probably wait and buy the Wyred4 Sound 3-ch for $1,795; it is half the size and weight, sounds very good, barely gets warm to the touch and I believe consumes about half the electricity of an A/B amp.

Honestly,if I was buying and didn't feel like waiting, I would consider buying the MMC-5 5-ch amp for $1,999(and just use 3 of 5 channels) for the reasons above plus the ability to easily go to a 5.0 or 5.1 system in the future.

The 5-ch is only $200 more. If you ever decided to add 2 rear surrounds and go to a 5.0 or 5.1 system, you'd just need to add the speakers. If you bought the 3-ch and had the same urge later, you'd need to add the speakers plus a 2-ch amp. You'd likely have a difficult time finding a quality stereo amp for $200, right? If you stumble upon a good one, please let me know.

If you don't mind buying used, you may want to keep an eye out for used class D amps on A'gon and other sites.

With what you decided on and have already, you're going to have a hard time screwing it up, even if you tried.

Did you get your rack and Oppo yet? Order the KEFs? I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions of your new system's sq after it's completed and you've used it for a couple weeks.

Later,
Tim

Tim,
Of course, all your suggestions are sensible and probably have been extremely helpful to Wemfan. I re-read the thread and I still don't see him mentioning HT. He's mentioned TV twice in the thread. He'll probably clarify - I mean - he has the Oppo 105 so why not watch movies in the bedroom!??

I think it may be a mistake to forego a center channel speaker given he has mentioned a few times how important dialogue is. I don't think relying on a phantom center is this case will be sufficient - especially if he he intends to watch 90% TV (and maybe movies) and 10% music.

As to his probable speaker choice - the KEF LS50 - I have not heard them, only read about them. Given his space limitations, those familiar with them, do you think they will work in his space? I am wondering if a speaker that isn't placement sensitive might merit consideration?

Tim and Finsup,

I did purchase a Parasound A31( I bet I did pay too much for it) which should be here Wednesday and I ordered an Oppo 105D and a pair of LS50 speakers last week. What I am missing are speaker stands, a center speaker and a sub which I will probably order over the next few weeks. I have changed racks so now I can accommodate the larger KEF center speaker which is what I will order if I go ahead with a center channel.

I will use this system primarily for TV but I am a musician so I will significantly up the percentage of music listening once I have a good system in place. However, I will probably never go to a 5.1 system as the head of my bed is against the wall and that is what I lay up against. I really think this system is all I am ever going to want in that room, anyway. I also have the same Panny television in two other rooms which will need my attention. One is the living room in which I want to do something above this system so this one I am learning on. The other bedroom is where we sleep and where my wife watches most of her television. It is a large room and all I have talked her into so far is a soundbar which really helped but is far from what I want in there. So far, she has been agreeable on my $2000-$4000 system (that has suddenly grown to 10) so I won't push for more until after a little time passes. :-)

You guys have all been very helpful, especially Tim, and I am considering every suggestion. I have a lot more equipment to buy so I am all ears and trying to learn. I am really looking forward to setting this thing up and I am sure I am going to have a lot of questions. Once this one is complete and I can give you my impressions I want to start in the living room which we use for 95% music and 5% television. It is a large room and I want it loud in there.

I will give continue to give updates as we go and ask for advice...lots of advice.... Thanks guys

Finsup and Wemfan,

Finsup:
"Tim,
Of course, all your suggestions are sensible and probably have been extremely helpful to Wemfan. I re-read the thread and I still don't see him mentioning HT. He's mentioned TV twice in the thread. He'll probably clarify - I mean - he has the Oppo 105 so why not watch movies in the bedroom!??"

I agree that all my suggestions are sensible, as are yours(although I'm sure you just forgot to include the adjective "extremely" in front of "sensible" as you surely intended). Just having some fun.

You're correct, I assumed he would be watching tv, as well as bluray movies, in his deluxe bedroom system and referred to the totality as HT in my prior posts.

"I think it may be a mistake to forego a center channel speaker given he has mentioned a few times how important dialogue is. I don't think relying on a phantom center is this case will be sufficient - especially if he intends to watch 90% TV (and maybe movies) and 10% music."

Yes, given Wemfan's statements, he will probably want to include a dedicated center channel speaker in his system. I would not recommend the use of a 'phantom center', either. I think he agrees and is planning on including a dedicated center and bought a rack that has a position for it.

"As to his probable speaker choice - the KEF LS50 - I have not heard them, only read about them. Given his space limitations, those familiar with them, do you think they will work in his space? I am wondering if a speaker that isn't placement sensitive might merit consideration?"

I have never listened to the KEF LS50s, either. I actually recommended earlier a different pair of speakers to Wemfan, the Golden Ear Triton towers, but he chose to buy the KEFs. I do not think that Wemfan made a bad choice. On the contrary, the more reviews and info I read about these speakers, the more I think Wemfan made a good choice with the LS50s.

All speakers, in my experience, are 'placement sensitive' and require some sort of trial and error experimental positioning to achieve optimum sq results.

Currently, I have only 2 concerns once Wemfan gets his chosen system up and running:

1. Will it have sufficient and the proper bass response?

The KEFs are highly rated and may deliver sufficient and well defined bass response all by themselves, especially considering this is a bedroom system that will not require prodigious amounts of bass. The good news, if Wemfan decides he wants increased bass performance, is that this can be easily incorporated later by adding an amplified subwoofer. This is a decision that needs to be addressed after system setup and assessment.

2. What speaker stands will Wemfan purchase?

The LS50s require a pair of good quality stands for setup positioning and optimum sq performance. The critical factors are the height and left and right positioning in relation to Wemfan's head/ears at his listening position, presumably laying in his bed. A 3rd factor to consider is the coupling/decoupling desired from the stands/speakers to the floor. I am not well versed on this subject since I prefer to use floor standing panel speakers, not monitors.

I agree with Finsup, it would be very helpful to hear from LS50 owners/users and others knowledgeable of these speakers at this point.

As I currently understand it, Wemfan has the hdtv, Oppo 105,3-shelf rack and the KEFs are ordered and on their way. That leaves 2 components for Wemfan to decide on and order: the stands and an amplifier.

I've been looking into possible stands and would suggest Wemfan start by looking at Sound Anchor and Sanus stands. I found Google searches such as "Sanus(or Sound Anchor) stands for KEF LS50 speakers" works well, either pressing 'enter' for general results or clicking on 'images' if you want a visual of options.

You're almost there Wemfan,
Tim