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VSA VR4 Gen III SE biamp questions.

I own a pair of Von Schweikert VR4 Gen III SE's which I drive (comfortably) with a pair of Electrocompaniet AW220 mono blocks.

The bottom is end is wonderful, however the mids and highs (at least to my ears) are just OK, but nothing special. Specifically, they sound lacking in body and texture, and just a tad to dry for my tastes.

So, I think tubes would be the answer. But, I love the bottom end, so I've been entertaining the idea of biamping the VR4's using the AW220's on the bottom, and using tubes on the midrange - treble.

What I am want to get is more texture, body, roundness, fullness and air (I guess I want it all).

Now, for the questions:

First, do I use a 'Y' connector out of the back of my CD player (Audio Aero Capitol Mk II) with one set of IC's to the AW220's (for the bottom) and one set of IC's to the tube amp?.

Secondly, if you've tried this arrangement with your VR4's (or other like speakers), what do you think? Was it worth it? Would you do it again?

Lastly, if you've tried this with the VR4's, how much power do you think I'll need for the tube amp (remember, this amp will be dedicated for the midrange / treble speaker - no bottom end) and any suggestions on a good tube amp (stereo of mono) somewhere in the $4k price range, give or take $1k (preferably take). New or used.

In conclusion, thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing back from anyone who has gone this route.

Happy Listening!!

Louis
louisl
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
Louis- Unless the amp you get has exactly the same gain, you are going to need a gain control at a minimum. Most people who do horizontal bi-amping with different amps use an active crossover to control levels and let each amp work on only their proper part of the signal. You could spend quite bit of money on this, including extra ICs, and so forth. The Y connector is only a small part of the equation. You might be better off finding a better amplifier and selling your EMC. BTW, the bass on the VR4 is impressive with most any amp. I demoed them once with a 70 wpc Berning ZH-70 tube amp and it a modest size room, it drove them very comfortably, with PLENTY of bass and not dry at all, IMO. Not sure what you could get for your EMCs, but even if its only $1K, and you add in $3K and the cost of interconnects AND a crossover, you would close to $5K. At that price, you are into some pretty rarified territory for used amp, and could even get a new, fully modded ZH-270 (if you can wait 6-8 months!). It even has switching for 2 sources, and its own gain. Lots of other great amps would be possibilities if you go that route.
jig
160 posts
 
You have a couple of options. The first thing I would recommend is to get a tube amp. This will flesh out the mids and most likely expand the soundstage. If you don't listen that loud you could probably get away with 30 wpc. You will need some way to attenuate the level coming into the amp that has a higher input sensitivity. If you use an integrated tube amp on the top, you will be able to increase gain on the MT because it has a built in preamp.This will give you the ability to balance the bass and treble. Option 2 would be to get a set of attenuators and place them at the input of whichever amp has the higher gain. Evs attenuators would do the job for about $150. As far as running 2 interconnects out of your cd player, this may pose a problem as you are placing an additional load on the output stage of your player. Try it and see. It will cause no harm. Finally, you do not mention speaker location. My VR-4's are placed out about 7 feet from the front wall and have excellent soundstaging. Adjusting toe in /out will have a huge impact on tonal balance. Try speaker placement 1st, as it costs nothing but time. I think your amps are great for the bottom and I would not get rid of them. Also a tube preamp, might warm things up some and make the Electro's open up a little. Good luck, start simple and work your way up to the more complex solutions.
apollo
11 posts
 
You are right to finger the ss amp. In my humble view, one loses much more overall than one gains in bass tightness with a ss amp. With just a little more tube power, you won't even remember what is was about the ss sound that you liked. I achieved a sound much BETTER than expected when I removed the ss amp and connected 200 watt/ channel tubes to my VR-4 speakers.

And keeping it simple with one amp is ALWAYS better. Back in my TRI amp days, I could easily entertain the neighbors with soundlevel, but I was not happy!
perfectionist
197 posts
 
Louis, I just received my VR-4's this weekend. I am bi-amping using solid state and tubes with excellent results. Also, using a tube pre-amp. At this point, I see no need to attenuate either amp(s) or put any external xo's on, although I may experiment in the future. I ran the same setup on my PSB Stratus Gold's and it also worked well, but I feel it's even a better match up with the VR's. The gain on the Aragon is 28db and on the Manley's it's 32db in Tetrode mode. The sensitivity on the m/t module is 8ohm and 4ohm on the bass module. I was worried about how everything would mate up, but so far, I thinks it's just an incredible combo. Smooth on the top and solid slam on the bottom and very dynamic. An audiophile friend of mine (who has much more knowledge than myself) said it sounded a little bass heavy to him, but we were listening to techno and the VR's are not broken in yet. As far as cabling, you just need a pre-amp with two sets of mains to feed the amps. I don't think I'd ever go back to all ss or tubes. Please see my system for a little more detail
r_burke
212 posts
 
You didn't mention a pre-amp?

I did a similiar hookup with a shanling CDP that had an internal volume, so didn't need a pre. Initially I used a pair of Y's from the CDP, but then I went to an Active Crossover (AXO). You can get AXOs pretty cheap (~200) if you use professional instead of HiFi stuff, mine is a RANE SAC 22.

Good luck and good listening
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