Audio Aero Capitole II with no serial numbers?

Heya Folks,

My theory is that a manufacturer should take care of ALL it's products it produces. It should not neglect ANY of it's products whether bought on the NEW, GREY, or USED market.

This support helps EVERYONE.
1-It helps the consumer of all products that are bought.
2-It helps the dealers because it keeps the resale of products HIGH. Contrary to popular belief, dealers do make money off of selling used and demo equipment. Look at Jeff's Sound Values.
3-It helps keep their product value high on the used market which causes many people to THINK a minute before buying the product used. If the difference between buying a new or used product is not a whole lot, many people will buy it NEW.
4-It helps the Manufacturer because people want to buy your products.

The big thing manufacturers can do is to make the BEST possible product they can for the money, and control their distribution as well as they can. PS Audio does a very good job of this. They make a great product, and PS Audio gear retains a lot of value on the used market. They also support their products. I find that it seems too many manufacturers mark their products up way too much at the retail level. I know 2 channel may be in decline, but HT is not. There is still money to be made for the company that prices their products agressively (with the best band for the buck).

There are certain products one just does not find used much. These tend to be the serious quality products that people just do not sell once they have them in their system (see LAMM amps)... However, you then get people that go through components like water... heh heh heh.

My 2 cents.

KF

Sattothestars - I wasn't trying to "bag" on you or dealers. I hope you take my comments with a grain of salt. I am simply a bit irritated with a local dealer who told my friend that they wouldn't help him unless he purchased something. I think they know he shops on Audiogon so they put up a road block. This gives me a sick feeling in my stomach.

Golden_ears - I don't think I am missing the point at all. Buying used is okay - there HAS to be a secondary market for this type of gear. IF there wasn't, no-one would spend this much on audio. Its when a customer gets screwed by someone on the gray market that IS a problem for both the consumer (guy who got screwed) and the company (the group who helps to create the situation in the first place). This is a global economy - free market and there are opportunists from foreign countries who want to sell into the US market. Any manufacturer who sells its products to these opportunists is creating a portion of the mess.

Then there is the problem of stolen goods which a COMPANY AND DEALER NETWORK SHOULD BY ALL MEANS ADDRESS!! Ignoring a unit without a serial number and telling the poor sap who purchased it that they are out of luck does bad things for everyone. It prevents YOU from getting your unit back in the off chance it was stolen and it prevents the poor guy who got suckered into buying it from having service.

FOR ALL - in fact, its only the dealers who loose in this gray/used market thing - the company gets its money. So the SOME dealers band together and as a result, screw the consumer.... They are all upset because they don't get their 50% cut on the merchandice so they throw tizzy fits, stop helping the walk-in customers who buy on Audiogon, and make statements like, "you're up a creek without a paddle" in order to protect their business. I'd do the same thing if I was a dealer.... but... I would also find a way to embrace the global economy.

I'm with Tok20000 on this one.

bwhite said:
"FOR ALL - in fact, its only the dealers who loose(sic) in this gray/used market thing - the company gets its money. So the SOME dealers band together and as a result, screw the consumer.... They are all upset because they don't get their 50% cut on the merchandice(sic) so they throw tizzy fits...."

Oh, so the dealer isn't entitled to make a living? The distributor to dealer mark-ups on high end stuff are puny, compared to clothing, shoes, food, prescription drugs, etc etc.
The distributor and or manufacturer set the retail prices anyway, NOT the dealer. The dealers are advised not to discount past certain levels, not out of greed, but to keep it fair for all of the dealers. If one guy is discounting like crazy and trans-shipping to customers in another dealer's area, not only is that against the rules, it's unfair. If that sort of thing happens too much, then all of the other dealers get pissed-off and drop the line. That's bad for both the manufacturer and the consumers.
So we're back to Mr. Jerk in the gray market, and it still sucks, and people shouldn't be supporting them.
You get what you pay-for, and great product deserves to fetch a fair price. If we all run around trying to knock down the prices by illegal or immoral means, then we all lose.
Peoples' unrealistic expectations of what they think prices should be have destroyed a lot of American and Canadian jobs. Corporations move their manufacturing business to Mexico or the Far East where people get slave wages. The product is shipped back here where people happily pay for their made-in-China shoes (talk about HUGE mark-ups!) and their made-in-Mexico cars, and thereby f*ck their fellow Americans out of their jobs! Mass market electronics, ya, including crap lo-fi audio stuff are in the same class.
"High End" audio product is often made right in here in North America, by Canadians and Americans who employ people here, and the same goes for European product. This kind of audio is an art folks, and it costs money for R&D, quality parts, etc. Oh ya, and it's a luxury we "audiophile" types love to spend our money on. We have to support the good companies if we want them to stay around.
So stop pissing and moaning about the prices, buy it or wait until you can afford it, or yes, buy it used from (a legitimate)someone who is moving-up to something else. Then enjoy it. Cheers!

Golden Ears. Touche' It seems as if you have a great deal of experience and emotion regarding this issue. Perhaps you can explain how some of these "dealership rules" are fair to a consumers?

For instance, if I have a local dealer who sucks I cannot buy from a good (remote) dealer who doesn't suck. What's that all about? What can I as I do? I am between a rock and a hard place. By all means, I want to be fair to the dealers but am I supposed to support a sucky dealer by putting money in his pocket?

IMHO, dealers dig their own graves. IF they provide good customer service then they will be successful. IF they do not, people in those areas will be seeking products elsewhere.

Here is your little quote:

If one guy is discounting like crazy and trans-shipping to customers in another dealer's area, not only is that against the rules, it's unfair. If that sort of thing happens too much, then all of the other dealers get pissed-off and drop the line. That's bad for both the manufacturer and the consumers.

Who's pissing and moaning?

bwhite
I started this thread because I was concerned about Audio Aero CD players being improperly imported with their serial numbers removed to hide their origins, and the possible bad effects it could have on people. (I'm not a dealer by the way...)
Some people have used it as an excuse to go on a rant against manufacturer and dealer prices, procedures and rules. There will always be a few exceptions or reasons why rules would not be followed. But that doesn't make the original issue any different. Fair play and good business practices do not constitute pissing and moaning.