Out of Control


I was looking at one of my highend mags the other day. And looking at the spec's of some speakers and find it hard to believe the outragous prices. I mean does it really get that much better at 10k, 15k, 30k and up. I've listened to speakers in the 25k range and was not impressed at all. I've been also looking at subs and some of them in the 1,500 and up catagory were paper treated, I always thought woven carbon fiber or poly was used for the top notch and whats with a class G amp in that sub when you spend 3k or better. Let's take power cords at 1k, I audioned one at home and took it a part, I can buy the same material under $100. I cannot really comment to much on amps, but some of the nicer ones above 3k have less parts, to me that means it took less time to build. Tweaks are another one I won't go into. Sometimes you just feel overwelmed. I was just wondering if anyone else gets a bit raddled about this. I know they have to make money, but lets be real. Just a bit bored today, so I thought I'd start a new thread. Don't get me wrong, I still have a few more pieces to add.......
Pete
pcc
I agree with your assessment that "HUGE" is used too often to describe subtle changes. Though, in fairness, since I haven't actually auditioned many of the components that garner such "praise" I can't be 100% certain. However, I still believe that a willingness to pay for these "HUGE" differences is a personal decision. In addition, I don't think that such decisions should be ridiculed. Are there children starving in Somalia? Yes. Is there vast unemployment in parts of Africa? Yes. Could that $75,000 for a pair of speakers be used to lend a helping hand instead? Yes. But it is not up to me to decide whether or not someone else's money should go to such worthy causes. And that at least was the crux of my disagreement with your statements concerning exorbitant prices for components. Value isn't always determined by cost alone - and in fact can be subjective rather than objective. There is gross excess in this country. But just what is considered excess is often relative not fixed.

I will admit that I confused your call for more rigid standards in reviewing components as a defense that the perceived differences between inexpensive and astronomically priced components are not justifiable in so far as price is concerned. I now understand, I think, that your argument was for better reviewing methods in determining the magnitude of the differences - more objectivity as opposed to subjective measurements. I'll agree to that.

My major issue with these types of discussions is the certainty with which people argue a point without having actually auditioned the equipment; this is especially true for discussions involving expensive cables. A healthy dose of skepticism is good. But skepiticism without the facts to back it up or at least the willingness to investigate the facts is no better than blind faith (as I have stated before). What is often brought forth by skeptics as a trump card is double-blind testing. The problem is that most of us have never actually conducted a proper double-blind test, or any scientific test for that matter. It is my belief, again, as I have stated before, that you had better be willing to provide detailed results if you use that trump card.

Your call for more rigid reviewing methods to quantify actual differences with an eye toward saner pricing is admirable; I might even go so far as to say necessary. But your own reviewing methods don't seem to incorporate this idea. My point has been that you seem to be a skeptic with no plan to implement your own suggestions. I'm not trying to be personal, just honest.
hey pbb, you really are an audiophile. most sound like lawyers, argue and argue and come up with the same result. but you at least say it how you feel it..have a good christmas, and may we have peace out of control....
Sonrisa, your Christmas wishes may have been directed to Pbb but I'll wish you a Merry Christmas just the same. I plan on enjoying the music of this season and I hope you do to.
Its out of control but do not underestimate paper cones. If paper is properly done it is still with the best in the world.
Something tells me that if I were smart I'd stay out of this.... Nonetheless, a few very brief observations.

1. It is naive to think that people who have spent thousands of dollars on cables, for example, are going to be convinced to try DBX testing of their investment against zip cord from home depot. Should they agree to make such a test and subsequently be unable to tell the difference between the two, it would be doubly naive to think that they wouldn't discount the testing methodology.

2. It is juvenile to say, "Have you done DBX testing yourself? If not, shut up." (I've heard that said by persons on both sides of the argument.) The literature is replete with reports of carefully and thoughtfully conducted DBX tests of audio equipment. Go read them, then comment knowledgably, one way or the other.

3. Although I am, myself, an advocate of DBX evaluation, I must say that I find the tone of many objectivists (skeptics, you-fill-in) more than a little mean-spirited. They seem to feel a compulsion to be spoilers.

4. On the other hand, I wonder why so many people who say, "I know I can hear differences; I don't need to do any testing" are so reluctant to demonstrate this ability.

5. This is a hobby, not an exercise in public policy. If someone is persuaded that he can hear a significant improvement in sound if he shines a blue light on his CDs before playing them, what business is it of anyone else to put him down about it?

6. Conversely, if a knowledgable listener participates in a properly conducted DBX test of an off-the-shelf Sony amp from Best Buy versus a Mark Levinson at 100X times the price and can't reliably discern which is which, why should anyone decry either the testing methodology or the listener's hearing?

7. Let's be honest. Most of us would drive a Land Rover in preference to a Sportage if we could afford it, or a Maserati in preference to a Miata. Nothing to be ashamed of about that.

Let's stop goring each other's oxen and just enjoy the music.