Have we lost civility and respect on Audio forums?


I think we have.  I have seen many discussion on audio forums and how nasty they can become when you have people disagreeing. Seems like there are a lot more know it alls now. I been in 20 years and I can still learn.  But I also know I know quite a bit. Like cables can enhance the sound and higher end well designed gear can truly be ear candy special.  Is this just on audio forums or the internet period. 

calvinj

“Some are not interested in hearing the music or a difference.”

Apparently you are not interested in hearing my system. Which is perfectly fine.

”Some just want to be right.”

I just want to get the subjectively best sound I can get from my system.

”WE ARE NOT THE SAME.”

 

So it seems. I absolutely would accept any open invitation to hear any system that someone is claiming to be pushing the state of the art. That’s what interests me the most these days in audio.
 

No worries. I tried to extend an olive branch. Such is life. 

The sound quality of the Scottwheel system has nothing to do with his dogmatic opinion about how to implement double blind testing protocols for all audiophiles before they spoke about their system impressions or about reviewers before they review anything; the sound quality of his system has nothing to do with double blind test protocol as a universal measure of what is a "musical meaningful sound" ...

I am sure by the way that his system is at least good and better than most system of the people here ... He own the best sofware to do this created by Choueiri not by double blind test protocols 😁but because Choueiri know enough physics and love enough Bach great mass his favorite works to do so ...He declined to explain this after i asked many times to change his tune for a more useful message and to change the matter of his ideological discourse for a serious acoustic subject ...He refuse to do it ...

I am not worthy of his trust it seems because i think that universal double blind test is unpractical and meaningless as a universal method to test audio claims by ordinary people ... I am not against double blind test protocols as a statistical tool in the industry even in audio, and i am in favor of simple improvised blind test in some step of the optimization process of any system for the average audiophile...

Then slipping on his personal system qualitative value proves absolutely nothing about his claim and prove not at all that he is reasonable in his demands toward us all : he implicitly means ,shut your mouth or deceive people because you refuse to use double blind test protocol in your listening testing ...

But the question of tomic601 about his claim of owning a SOTA system ( Who decide what is SOTA and who the judge will be ?) after scottwheel suggesting himself that it is because of double blind test choices from him, which is bullshit claim, is a meaningful question he refuse to answer save by an invitation ...He own a top system for sure because he bought costlier components not my low cost type of component and more importantly so because he is the owner of the BACCH filters the next acoustic revolution on stereo listening AFTER the transition from mono to stereo ... This SOTA system has nothing to do with double blind test protocol... He never really preach about that BACCH...Why?

Why harassing people right to communicate their subjective impressions about their journey by asking as a mantra : stay silent or prove your right to speak qualitatively about the gear AFTER you have adopted the dogma of double blind test for all because me scottwheel i own a SOTA system ... This is Bullshit, the real reason why he own a SOTA system is because he own the BACCH system on which he said almost nothing but spoke on all his posts since he is here about his enlightenment in the art of double blind test to heal subjectivist audiophiles disease ...

I conclude that he is of good faith but lie to himself about his motives ; or he is of bad faith and lie about the reason his system is SOTA, not double blind test choices but mostly the new acoustic revolution tool : the BACCH system... Pick your choice about him  ...

These discussions are fascinating for their complete predictability. Anytime it's about cables, fuses, switches, the discussion is basically the same. Somebody takes the "scientific" view that they make no difference while someone else believes regardless of measurements a difference can be heard. In this case, whatever substantive points there are to be made were made days ago. 
 

one would think that would be the end of it, but there is something fascinating about the entirely emotional response This debate produces. The arc of the discussion is always the same . it always ends up at I'm right because my equipment is more expensive than yours or I'm right because I have read more articles about this than you  and then there are composition length posts that say the same thing over and over. After about two rounds of this, it's entirely pointless because there's nothing new to be said, and no one is going to change their mind. What I find interesting is why does this topic produce such an entirely emotional response? That would be an interesting study. After all, no one Can impose their view on anyone else. As long as people want to buy modestly priced cables, there will be someone to sell them and as long as people want to buy extremely expensive cables, there will be someone to sell them too. so, really, there is nothing at stake in this debate, there are no more real points to be made and at this point it has become little more than the primary antagonists hurling personal insults at one another. I'm not complaining, it's entertaining in the same way that a professional wrestling match provides some entertainment, but I just find it interesting that an esoteric topic produces such raw anger. Personally, I think cables can make a difference because I think I have heard the difference. But the gentleman who says otherwise is entitled to his opinion. even though he may be a bit haughty In his presentation, I don't think he has insulted anybody's mother, but  some of the responses suggest he has crossed some sort of emotional line. I suppose this discussion does at least start to answer the original question post by the OP

interesting.

What I find interesting is why does this topic produce such an entirely emotional response? That would be an interesting study.
 
The answer to this is simple and evident...
 
There is a universal debate in our society all across earth about what is human and why post-human is inevitable and better ...
 
There is a techno cultist ideology permeating all societies fault lines ...
 
There is transhumanism opposing techno-cultutist religion for human version 2.0 and human version 1.0
 
Now in psycho-acoustic it is not double blind protocols which are a mere tool that define "sound musical quality" but it is the way evolution grounded the human life for his survival in an acoustic environment created by the gesturing and sound producing body of mankind which psycho-acoustics science try to understand using all different tools and methods between pure physics and neurophysiology and psychology, music, linguistic etc .....
 
The study of what is a human perception of sound qualities and the complex amount of information conveyed by the ears/brain/body are on the brink to be completely revolutionized , as all aspects of society begin to be , by A.I. revolution and the way the techno-cultism of corporations will define what is human , an obsolete animal and what tomorrow must be : the dawn of a new type of post human...
 
The battle is between those who refuse to reduce wisdom to mere knowledge and those who refuse to reduce human knowledge to mere science , and those who refuse to reduce science to mere technology and refuse to reduce all life to a mere technological tool ....Rationalism in his new form as in his past form is not reason ... Read Blaise Pascal and Goethe ...Two top scientists ...
 
In audio the same battle rage between subjective human and techno cultism in a way or in another reflecting the great battle ... This is why us ordinary people felt this debate as fundamental ev3en when manifested in a minor way in an audio forum about the question : what is sound quality and how to spoke about it ...

Music is art….there in lies the elusive meaning of a subjective response, communicated by objective devices.  If you have a response which allows that art to connect with you, then look no further.