Krell KID vs. Wadia i170.

12-12-08: Dazzdax
"How can an analog signal from a simple Ipod be better than the it's digital signal converted to analog through a high quality D/A converter?I How good the Krell might be, the bottleneck is still the Ipod derived analog signal. The built in DAC inside the Ipod is quite good (Wolfson?), but of course an external high quality D/A converter is still better (better power supply, better internal parts, etc.)."

I trust my ears !the Krell is still better against Wadia 170 after 2 months of listening.The Krell KID should be connected with XLR connection wich i prefer against RCA.The Krell KID DOES NOT SOUND GOOD if connected straight to amplifiers so it needs a very good preamp.LOCK the volume control of the KID.The worst connection is RCA straight to amps.I dont know exactly how Kid reads the Ipod signal,i tried to find technical papers but didnt succeed.Its not as simple as just reading the dac, the KID takes command over all iPOD functions.The result is by all audiophile criteria an overall better sound quality against Wadia.
KID +xlr+preamp= huge soundstage very colourfull(TUBELIKE)
very detailed 3 dimensional.I use MAC /I tunes/ Wav files /Apple Classic 160Gb.
(Krell Kid,Wadia 170i,Krell Kps25sc 24/96 ,CAST,Krell 350mc,
Audiophysik MedeaII)

>> 08-26-08: Optarchie
>> How could a 350.00 dollar "dock" compare to the krell
>> kid?
well, I think that it is nincompoop people like you who have run this audio industry into the ground by subscribing to the view that a $1200 Krell KID *has* to be better than a $379 Wadia iPod merely because it is more expensive!!!???

>> The other thing I might mention is that the wadia is a
>> cheap piece of plastic made in china, so I quess you
>> get what you pay for.
The only truth in this statement is that the Wadia i170 is made in China. The part about "cheap piece of plastic" is total BS!
Here is a snippet from Stereophile's review (S'phile might be accused of never writing a bad review for any component they audition but I do not think that Stereophile would call plastic cast aluminum!):-
"What hours of transport we shall spend
The 170iTransport is made in China. Its cast-aluminum body measures 8" W by 2.7" H by 8" D and sports a slot on top in which you dock an iPod. (The slot can be fitted with the ubiquitous Apple clamshell adaptors for all compatible iPod products.)"

And, Optarchie, after all the praise you have heaped on the Krell KID, why are you selling your unit????
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1235056836&/krell-kid-Ipod-dock-with-160-g

(maybe I should never have bitten & replied to Optarchie's post but idiot posts like this always get under my skin!

And, no I'm not biased against Krell gear. Most of the gear they made in the 1985-1989 time-frame was the best ever in the market & way ahead of its competition. I liked that sound. Their FPB-600, FPB-450 units were not as good, IMHO. I have not kept up w/ their other gear as today I think of them more of a HT company than a 2-ch company that they used to be & HT is not my primary focus).

Hey Bombaywalla,
First off I bought 2 krell kids if you must know. I am not implying that more expensive gear is better because it costs more but what I amsaying that if a 350.00 piece of gear which traditionally has a 30-40% dealer markup and also has profit for the company really doesn't have that much to it. Have you ever looked inside the wadia? I have and there is nothing to it. It does nothing to control jitter and is ony as good as the dac you attach it to. Since I own both and have spent numerous hours a/b ing both units I can honestly stand by my opinions. Why do you take this so personally? Are you a wadia dealer? This is a public forum so if you don't like someones opinion, keep it to yourself or buy both units like I did and do a comparison for yourself. If you go by reviews than you are dumber than you sound. If I told you sushi was the best food in the world and you hated fish would you still buy it? I would hope not. Open forums are meant for discussion, not to bash people because you have a different opinion. FYI mr. review lover, the wadia got panned in the HIFI plus issue so if you go by reviews your statement is useless!

Hey Optarchie,

>> I am not implying that more expensive gear is better
>> because it costs more but what I amsaying that if a
>> 350.00 piece of gear which traditionally has a 30-40%
>> dealer markup and also has profit for the company
>> really doesn't have that much to it.
Then, I wish that you had said it just so in your original post.
Please go back & read your original post dated 08-26-08 (3rd post) & see how it starts off. Many would think that you are implying more expensive gear sounds better due to its cost...

Yes, I have looked inside the Wadia. You are correct, there's a lot of air in it. Most of the cost of the unit (despite machining the metal in China is in the royalty costs Wadia has to pay Apple since it is a "Made for iPod" product. Apple started this "Made for iPod" program. You can thank Apple for the cost structure!).

>> Since I own both and have spent numerous hours a/b ing
>> both units I can honestly stand by my opinions.
And you should! I am *not* asking you to change them. I was objecting to the way you commenced you post insinuating expensive gear = better performance. Later in the post you incorrectly stated Wadia being cheap plastic made in China. How could you say that given that you claim to have owned both units. When you held the Wadia & opened the top lid, it was plastic to you????
IMHO you would have come across *far* more professional if you had praised the Krell KID *without* uncessarily bashing the Wadia.

>> Are you a wadia dealer?
Nope, not by a long shot.

>> This is a public forum so if you don't like someones
>> opinion, keep it to yourself
As I wrote a few line above, your opinions do not bother me. You are entitled to them & I seek no attempt to over-turn them.
Yes, this is a public forum so don't write crap about another product that is not true. That's my objection.

>> If you go by reviews than you are dumber than you sound.
No, I do not go by reviews. I have not in a long time. I do read them but take them w/ a grain of salt (size of grain depends on which magazine I'm reading). However, I pulled that snippet from Stereophile merely to show you that, as a matter of public record, the unit is made from metal. That's all.

>> the wadia got panned in the HIFI plus issue
yes! I saw the post from Elberoth2. I wonder why?? I might have to check out the review to see what upset the reviewer. From all that I have read & as you correctly stated, the i170 is a mere digital pass-thru. What could it botch up that would piss a reviewer off?
(I already know that the output digital jitter is unusually high probably due to a sloppy buffer stage hence performance is external DAC dependent. Wonder if this set off the reviewer who had his/her hopes high????)

I have both the krell kid and the wadia i170. My wadia i170 has been modded by steve at gns co. and it is hooked up to my wadia 521 dac gns mod also. I can tell you for a fact that the wadia i170 is better than my krell kid. You get what you put into the wadia i170 ie meaning it all depends on the dac you are using. I love my krell kid it a great unit, i have it hooked up to paradigm active 40v2. The jitter from the wadia can be lowered by using empirical audio new pace car 2. I plan on getting one in the next week to further better the sound from the wadia i170. The cost of pace car 2 is around 1,800 with all the opt. I think it great that we have a lot of options to choose from for making the ipod a good source.