Nearly all manufacturers do not advertise/exhibit their product measurements? Why?


After my Audio Science Review review forum, it became apparent that nearly the only way one can determine the measurements of an audio product is wait for a review on line or in a publication.  Most equipment is never reviewed or is given a subjective analysis rather than a measurement oriented review.  One would think that manufacturers used tests and measurements to design and construct their products. 

Manufacturers routinely give the performance characteristics of their products as Specifications.  Those are not test measurements.

I searched the Revel speaker site for measurements of any of their speakers and could not find any.  Revels are universally lauded for their exceptional reviewed measurements.  Lack of published manufacturer measurements is true for nearly every speaker manufacturer I've searched for on line, perhaps several hundred.   Same is true for amps, pre-amps, DACs, transports, turntables, well you get the picture.  Do they have something to hide?   I doubt the good quality products have anything to hide but poor quality products do.  

ASR prides itself in providing "true" measurements that will aid in purchase decisions.   Why don't the manufacturers provide these measurements so that reviewers can test if they are truthful or not?

Then there are the cables and tweaks for which I suspect that there are inadequate tests available to measure sonically perceived differences but which objectivists believe don't exist or are "snake oil."  

Well, please chime in if you have some illuminating thoughts on the subject.   

I would have loved to see manufacturers measurements on my equipment and especially those that I rejected.  

fleschler

@mastering92

Have you visted manufacturing facilities and corporate/engineering offices to confirm these supposed findings? I would think that any popular or even remotely successful audio manufacturer has more money than you, so being able to afford an audio analyzer is likely not a hurdle. Your $100k Klippel costs as much as a half-decent Porsche. There are better machines out there. If there's so much bad-measuring gear out there, why are those brands so popular and respected?! for example, Luxman and Accuphase. 

I have not only visited them, I have had them directly and explicitly tell me they lack such gear.  You and I may think it is justifiable for them to invest in such gear but they think otherwise. Take PS Audio with their super expensive new speakers.  Their designer is active on ASR and clearly stipulates that the company doesn't want to invest in this gear.  So they are having their speaker measured by a third-party testing lab.  After the fact (design) sorry to say.

As to better machines, no, it doesn't exist. The only alternative to Klippel NFS is a massive ancehoic chamber.  I am talking $5M+.  The $1M ones are too small to be anechoic to 20 Hz as Klippel NFS is (actually NFS has no lower limit).

What companies do is take shortcuts with gated high frequency measurements and patching that with ground plane testing.  This gives you decent results but it is very time and resource consuming so it only gets done once in a while.  With Klippel NFS, you can do two scans in a day and generate full 3-D map of the speaker during that time!  It will highly accelerate the design verification.

Then again, $100K plus space and training to use the gear is more than many companies want to spend. This is gradually changing though as I have seen companies buy the system after seeing ASR measurements.  And realizing that the awareness around these measurements is increasingly and rapidly so.

@mastering92 

Small amounts of current or voltage variation can influence how well an audio component performs. Different types of metal - copper, silver, CCAW wire can impact sound quality. Why be so opinionated, as though only you are right?! I'm just stating what I believe is true based on experience.

Me being opinionated?  How about  you all? I stand on shoulders of numerous engineers and designers in audio.  Who do you go by?  Your gut and folklore you read online? 

Back to your point, yes, there are measurable differences in cables which I show day in and day out.  The problem you have is that the sound coming out of your gear does not change.  This is confirmed both in measurements and controlled testing where only your ear is involved.

You want to put your head in the sand, be my guest.  But don't make this personal about me.

@mastering92 

Tell me what you think the product does (product description) and I will tell you if it meets those standards/fills that purpose. That is truly all a prospective buyer needs to know. Good enough or optimal for them, then they can buy what they want and be happy. End of story.

The perspective buyer has been kept in the dark with respect to true capabilities of the product.  Instead he has been trained to eat up marketing claims that are easily falsified. I am trying to shine some sunlight here.  What business of yours is it to push us back into darkness?  Stand aside if you have nothing technical to share that can be objectively relied upon.  Heaven knows we have enough people lining up to feed folks folklore this way....

@mastering92 

So you are the audio measurement god and all companies must yield before you so that you can measure their electronics and rank them on your website? Who cares what they use. Does it sound good? That's what really matters.

Another emotional rant with no constructive value.  No, I am not a "measurement god."  Learning to use an instrument to measure audio gear is not impossible or hard.  The problem we have is that audio companies think they can just feed you marketing claims and you accept it.  So why try harder to provide proof?

So I come around and test things.  That causes heartburn for you.  As if having more data is bad for us as consumers.  Better logic can be found in fortune cookies.  Be an advocate of consumers.  Ask for proof points.  If someone says XYZ sounds better, ask them for listening tests where only the ear was involved.  If they refuse, then ask them for measurements.  If they don't give you that either, then run, run away fast.

Alternatively be part of the solution than the problem.  Don't spend the time writing this missive of a response.  Instead, encourage companies to provide more reliable data to us.  Support the work some of us are doing to to improve the situation as opposed to acting the PR shield for companies.

I just finished testing a $2,299 IEM.  In ever regard it is worse than my favorite $50

one: 

 

This is what proper testing gives you.  And oh, the testing included listening test so don't climb up that tree.....