Has anyone been able to define well or measure differences between vinyl and digital?

@johnread57

@Fair can you summarize on this issue?

Will do, referring to questions in the original post.

It’s obvious right? They sound different, and I’m sure they measure differently.

Yes and yes.

Well we know the dynamic range of cd’s is larger than vinyl.

This is debatable.

But do we have an agreed description or agreed measurements of the differences between vinyl and digital?

No. Because there are multiple - at least two - paradigms, defining certain important characteristics like dynamic range differently.

I know this is a hot topic so I am asking not for trouble but for well reasoned and detailed replies, if possible. And courtesy among us. Please.

Tried my best to abide.

I’ve always wondered why vinyl sounds more open, airy and transparent in the mid range. And of cd’s and most digital sounds quieter and yet lifeless than compared with vinyl. YMMV of course, I am looking for the reasons, and appreciation of one another’s experience.

In the first paradigm, CD is superior in sound quality to LP. Digitizing CDs and delivering their content via online streaming should have killed off LPs.

In the second paradigm theoretical framework, LP occupies a middle ground between CD and such perceptually transparent digital formats as PCM 192/24 and DSD128.

Correspondingly, the second paradigm maintains that CDs, physical or digitized, are not capable of superseding LPs. But perceptually transparent digital formats likely will.

I’ve always wondered why vinyl sounds more open, airy and transparent in the mid range. And of cd’s and most digital sounds quieter and yet lifeless than compared with vinyl.

Most studios record fully digital nowadays. When streamed lossless via Tidal or Qubuz you get this source straight to your DAC. Assuming it’s a capable DAC you get the best representation possible.

To make a vinyl, there are countless extra steps:

- audio compression and RIAA to limit the low frequency groove amplitude.

- mechanical process of cutting the master disk

- chemical / mechanical process of pressing a disk

- wear and tear of the (master) disk

- added wow and flutter of the turntable

- mechanical / electrical process of pick up element

- Reverse RIAA correction and pre amplification of pick up voltage

And now all of a sudden it sounds more open, airy, and transparent?

I know especially if it’s a MOFI…

Yet it sounds different often, not always but often enough for me and many others to notice it.

That said I was just trying to understand why…

Yes, given all the added steps it will sound different. And to some it may even sound nicer. Tastes differ.

Let's talk about this subject just from a musical standpoint.  In classical music, when a composer writes a score, he or she notates dynamics (forte, pianissimo, etc) to denote how loud or soft a passage is to be played.  These dynamic markings are as much a part of the musical score as the melody or harmony.  By definition, vinyl is a compressed format and cannot completely express loud or soft the way digital can.  This is not an issue in most rock music, because there are not the dynamic markers in rock charts.  In jazz, very few artists put dynamics into their performances.  Art Blakey was one who made his ensemble play with a large dynamic range (I was lucky enough to see his band live before he passed away).  This is not an attempt to plug or criticize either vinyl or digital, but to what audio should strive for from a purely musical perspective.  I hope anyone reading this gets a chance to sit front row to hear a great symphony orchestra, so you can really hear the dynamics I'm talking about.