Powered speakers show audiophiles are confused

@toolbox149  @kota1 

The benefits of the active Magnepan system were snappier transients, increased dynamics, the ability to tame the ribbon tweeter’s aggressiveness, and the ability to do phase/time corrections, especially with regards to integrating the subwoofer. But my effort had much more to do with bypassing the arguably weak Magnepan crossover than finding optimum amplifiers for each of the Maggie’s drivers. I have since gone back to a single amplifier setup with the speakers’ original crossovers. They don’t present as snappy, dynamic or as “live” as they did with the active crossover configuration. Excuse this clumsy attempt to describe what I’m hearing now, but it’s like the edgy corners have been rounded off slightly and the overall presentation is a bit more well-mannered albeit without the sharper imaging within the soundstage. The "rounded corners" may very well have more to do with the potentially weak ADAC in the speaker management unit adding a harsh digital signature than the choice of amplification or any other variable. 

Which is better? The answer to that question changes frequently. But in both configurations, it’s very, very good.

@sixfour3 that is a great post, my hat off is to you, obviously hot rodding the Maggies is a great idea trying active.

@kota1

I have an outrageous, inexpensive bargain for you that is NOT cheap garbage and around $600 for an entire system, speakers, amps, dac, ARC room correction, and a streamer. It is all built into the speakers, no boxes, no problem. Basically plug and play:

But the PW system excelled when I used the two PW 600s as a stereo pair. This can be easily set up in DTS Play-Fi, but you have to remove them from surround-sound mode. Configured as a stereo pair, the PW 600s sounded outstanding, easily rivaling separate speakers and electronics costing many times their $1198/pair price.

Thank you for the reference, but those are not for me. I already use Neumann KH-310 for similar duties. I consider this Neumann an example of a properly designed and well-made mid-level studio monitor of low-distorting variety.

As to the PW600s, I couldn't find their measurements. Yet I'm not excited about a speaker with 5" woofer, in such a small box.

My guess would be that PW600 natural roll-off starts somewhere between 100Hz and 120Hz. Yet this is compensated for by its internal DSP, so the bass seemingly extends down to ~40 Hz instead.

I wouldn't expect PW600 to be low-distorting. There is a price to pay for a small transducer being driven hard by a powerful D-class amplifier. Intermodulation distortions ought to be significant.

Contrast this with the KH-310, which meaningfully extends down to 34Hz, even without DSP. Also, its manufacturer publishes detailed measurements, which are confirmed by independent reviewers.

Distortions-wise, the KH-310 measures and sounds similarly to good professional headphones. This studio monitor is quite popular for professional studio mixing, including multi-channel, especially in Europe.

As to my aspirations, one day I'd like to own a pair of Neumann KH-420 or 
ATC SCM100ASL Pro as an upgrade to the KH-310.

For kitchen duty, I used to use all-white Yamaha HS8. Then they migrated to my daughter's electronic piano installation. I'm not aware of a better sound-quality bang for a street price buck in active speakers.

Interestingly enough, I keep encountering the HS8s in professional studios, owners of which could easily afford much more expensive monitors. HS8s are just uncannily accurate, in an easy to live with format, and virtually never fail.

@mijostyn I'm not marketing at all I don't care what anyone thinks of any of my systems (I have 4 Dolby Atmos systems in my home) I'm retired after 35 years in sound recording and mixing but I do care about what experienced people in the audiophile world think. I don't know that world so much. I do know physics and have studied all aspects of sound my entire life. This OP started by me pointing out what I thought everyone else already knew but they didn't, powered speakers are the "best practice" in building hi fidelity speakers, who cares how much they cost. Every speaker and amp manufacture who is gouging people for hundreds of thousands of dollars (my self included) for expensive systems knows that sound systems being designed synergistically are best. That is not a generalized opinion it is logical, the converse is what most everyone buys now believing that sound systems should not be designed synergistically. When someone asked how does this amp sound with this speaker now you know by reading this thread that the answer is maybe good maybe bad but it would be much better if the amp didn't have to push through the dozens of objective electronic design problems that happen when speakers and amps aren't made for each other. 

One simple example other than the obvious crossover problems after the amp in the signal path is how efficient the amp can be when it is directly connect to 1 driver the needed power drops by about ½ and the throw and pull of the driver is perfectly dampened by the amplifier meaning the voice coil lasts a lot longer. It is impossible for normal voice coils to be perfectly dampened because of the unknown loads created by the crossover, connectors, speaker lines, in common in designed speaker amp combinations today. 

If you say well I like tube amps, ok fine have a company design you a tube amp and a speaker in separate cabinets that are made for each other, fine. You probably can't get a company to do that today but if audiophiles would demand best practices it would happen sooner than you think. The amps are there the crossovers are there and the speakers are there make entire systems that are made for every other component. I have the PS Audio BHK components and I think they work together ok but when they finally made a speaker they didn't make an amp for it they would rather make more money and sell them separately.

@fair , Abbey Road used the Neuman's when remastering Pink Floyd for immersive audio. I posted a pic earlier in this thread. You mentioned that there is confusion about cheap active speakers and I agree. Those PW600 are an example of an "inexpensive" active speaker that aren't "cheap". If I were doing a build around a Yamaha HT processor the HS8 would be a match that would be my aspiration. Just thinking about it makes me want to try it. Kitchen duty I have a single Paradigm Active Shift A2 connected to a Klipsch Gate streamer. Thanks for replying.