Subwoofer pairing for Sonus Faber Elipsa SE

Thanks for all the feedback. Had a huge project here on the ranch that nearly beat me, but its done of now so back to important stuff.


Just finalized an order for a pair of S/812. I'm pretty optimistic they are going to integrate nicely . 

Hello doitwithlife,
     I'm sure you'll be able to get very good results at your listening position by using a pair of S/812 subs if you position each of them optimally, which likely means not just placing them where they're most convenient.
    The goal is to position each at the exact positions in relation to your listening seat that avoids inevitable specific positions in your room that will cause bass peaks, dips or nulls at your listening seat.  This involves using the 'crawl method' and here's exactly how to do this:

1.  Hookup sub#1 and place it at your listening position. 
2.  Set the volume on the sub to about 50%(12 o'clock), the crossover frequency at 40 Hz and the phase control at "0" (in phase).
3.  Play some music with good and repetitive bass. 
4.  Beginning at the front right corner of your room, slowly begin walking, in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room, listening carefully for the exact spot that the bass sounds best to you (solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural).  Take your time, listen closely and repeat the process until you're certain of the exact spot the bass sounds best to you.
5.  Once you determine the exact spot, move sub#1 to this exact position.

6.  Hookup sub#2 and place it at your listening position. Set the volume on the sub to about 50%(12 o'clock), the crossover frequency at 40 Hz and the phase control at "0" (in phase).
7. Play some music with good and repetitive bass.    
8. Beginning at sub#1, slowly bcontinue walking, in a counter-clockwise direction around the perimeter of your room, listening carefully for the exact next spot that the bass sounds best to you (solid, smooth, detailed, dynamic and natural). Take your time, listen closely and repeat the process until you're certain of the exact spot the bass sounds best to you.
9. Once you determine the exact spot, move sub#2 to this exact position.
10.  Sit at your listening seat and verify the bass sounds very good to you.  If it does not, you'll need to repeat this procedure beginning at step#1.  If it does, continue to step#11.
11. This step entails fine tuning the settings on the volume, crossover frequency and phase controls to optimize the bass quality and seamless integration with your main speakers.  I set the volume and crossover controls as low as possible with the bass still sounding very good to me and the phase to whatever sounds best, too.  Of course, you're free to set these controls to whatever you prefer.

Tim  

Tim,

Thanks , I've read this elsewhere it will be useful.

I'll be interested to see how the process compares to Rel's placement suggestions. I have a challenging room. I sent them pics, measurements,  and descriptions of my space and gear. The response was pretty specific and referred back to my room attributes.

I'm pretty jazzed to get the new subs in. I started tweaking the settings on the old M&K and trashed my systems voice when I started pushing it. Oh well great expectations moving forward 

doitwithlife,
     I thought you considered a pair of REK S/812 subs at over $6K/pair a bit too expensive?  Hopefully, the custom positioning advice they included for the steep price is optimal. If they suggested positioning one or more of their subs should be positioned in a corner of your room, however, it's a good indication they're not actually certain of the optimal positioning for their subs in your specific room. 
     They're likely just guessing and hoping that the increased bass sound pressure level, well known to result from corner placement of one or more subs in any given room, will convince you that their positioning suggestion was a good one.  I recommend you take the time up front to position the subs according to their suggestion first and listen to them critically like that for a few days in your system and room.  Then position them per the procedure I suggested and listen to them critically for a couple more days.  
     This evaluation process will definitely take more time up front.  But I guarantee that the bass reproduced by one of these two different positioning methods will sound significantly better to you.  The bass qualities to listen for and compare are the realism of leading edges on bass notes, the overall bass smoothness, speed, detail, naturalness, ease,dynamics and the realistic decay of bass notes.  You can take notes if you prefer but it'll be obvious that one method sounds significantly better at your listening seat.
     I think you should also consider what Audio Kinesis owner and speaker designer, Duke Lejeune, has stated many times that I know to be true based on personal experience: 
     If the bass from a single properly positioned good quality sub sounds very good in your room, the bass from two properly positioned good quality subs will sound twice as good as one sub and the bass from four properly positioned good quality subs will sound twice as good as two subs. 
     As I mentioned on my first post to your thread, the four sub option refers to the Audio Kinesis Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA complete kit system or a custom 4-sub DBA system consisting of your choice of subs.  The  Absolute Sound review of the Swarm system, linked to on my first thread post,  is a very accurate description of the exceptionally high quality bass performance level one can expect from this $3K 4-sub DBA system. 
     It's unfortunate that you already committed to spending over $6K on a pair of REL subs since you could have bought a complete AK Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA system for $3K and saved $3K.  The complete Swarm or Debra systems consists of 4 relatively small subs that are each 14.5"w.5"wx12"dx28"h, weigh 44 pounds, have a 10" long-throw aluminum woofer and includes a 1K watt class AB sub amp/control unit.  
     I'm almost certain that either AK 4-sub DBA system, or any custom 4-sub DBA  system with 4 subs of your choice, would significantly outperform any pair of subs, regardless of quality and price.
     It's definitely a shame you didn't decide to first take advantage of AK's 30-day free in-home trial period, audition this system's near state of the art bass performance and save about $3K. 
      Fortunately however, you will now probably never experience the exceptionally high quality bass response performance level of a 4-sub Swarm or Debra DBA system, fully realize that you purchased an obviously inferior sub system solution instead and paid over double the price for the privilege.  
     I understand that you and others may feel I'm being too blunt, unsympathetic and honest in my assessment but I think it's appropriate given my perception of certainty in the severity of your lack of good judgment on this particular purchasing decision.
     I honestly do want to help you and think I'd be breaking the glass to deploy warning lights right about now if they were available.  I urge you to immediately cancel your order for the two REL S/812 subs and place an order for a complete AK Swarm or Debra 4-sub DBA system on a 30-day in-home trial basis, instead.  It'll be a win-win for you with no downside except maybe a few days delay.  Better bass performance and at least a $3K savings.
     You can thank me later after you fully experience the bass quality and  better understand my advise and urgency.

Tim

I am using dual JLaudio E112 with my Elipsa SE.   though I am still tweaking it and about to order JL CR1 x-over controller.