Can tube amps play loudly?

You might also consider getting a tube pre-amp and a solid state amp so you can get the best of both worlds. Dan

Chris- So then the answer to your question is an resolute "yes" tube amps can play "loudly" and be very satisfying at those volumes. My point was that it may not necessicarily be the information you were after as it really speaks nothing to the quaility of the presentation. Having identified yourself as a "tube newbie" I took it you were after a more thorough explanation. To answer the other question you posed in response to me: "Yes" again, there are plenty of tube-based offerings in the $1500 range, both new and used, that would be stellar performers and make for a huge improvement over your current system, at least from my musical preferences (which lean strongly towards acoustical, vocals, jazz, folk, blues and not much rock (though some) in the mix. Seek out further info by searching the archives both here and on Audioasylum. Off the top of my head, and from direct experience, I could recommend the following: Jolida 302B or 502B (the later with a bit more power and bass authority), Quicksilver Mini-Mites (most of the Quicksilver offerings would serve you well, but research before you invest there), Mesa Baron (this tube powerhouse would lean more towards the rockin' out side while giving you quite a bit of latitude in choice of presentation (switches between pentode and triode as well as in between - but this amp is also expensive to re-tube as it requires a lot of tubes). Of Hybrid amps they may also provide you with a great solution to your needs, I'd agree there. Not much experience to speak of, but I haver listened at length to the Unison Unico in two similar systems. Loved it the first time and was lukewarm the second (different room, different comparisons). There are also some SS Class A amps that may float your boat combining the warmth of tubes with the dynamics of SS. Pass Labs Aleph series does this quite well (my experience was with the Aleph 5 which is a very sweet amp indeed. The 3 and 30 are more affordable used. That brings up two more questions that you may want to answer for more focused advice from others: How big is the room you are going to be playint this system in, and does your budget have room for a preamp, or are you looking for an integrated? If you are stuck on tubes my view would be that most good push/pull designs are a good compromise for all types of programming. If you are going to go pentode you may want to consider the hybrid alternatives, or go SS as my experience with pentode is that it leans more in that direction taking away alot of the dimensionality that many associate with tubes better served by PP, Triode and SET designs. As always, just one more opinion in the fray.

Marco

"I’d like to be able to narrow down my speaker choices before I start shopping seriously, because I don’t want to waste my time or a dealer’s."

If you had to go out tomorrow and purchase a system, you could do worse than the modified Cayin's you mentioned, or either of the C-J integrated or amplifiers I mentioned - coupled with Vandersteen 2Ce Signature speakers. I have always liked these speakers as they have a wonderful ("lifelike) midrange for jazz and vocals, but still do well with rock and roll as they are a box speaker. Stereophile Class "B" for two or three or four years running; for $1675 (new, with stands) they are a real deal.

From their web-site: Vandersteen 2Ce Signature

IMPEDANCE:
7 ohms nominal 4 ohms minimum.
SENSITIVITY:
86dB with 2.83 volts of pink noise input at 1 meter on axis.
RECOMMENDED AMPLIFICATION:
40 to 160 watts per channel into 8 ohms.

Other options: Stereophile mentions the Pathos Acoustics Classic One as a Class "A" integrated amp ($2295 new) - as best I can tell it is a hybrid unit, with 70 wpc @ 8 ohms and 130 wpc at 4 ohms. Any of the Musical Fidelity units seem to be good - they are solid state but more tube sounding than most (I am told). Their X-150 is class "B" rated and would do well with Magnepan MG12's or 1.6's - but I don't think a planar speaker is the way you want to go, based on what you have said.

"The Absolute Solund" lists the Maggies and Vandersteens listed above as "Best Buys" in their price categories; also listed under integrated amplifiers are the Musical Fidelity X-150 and Audio Research VSi55 ($2995 new, less than $2000 used (?)).

I don't ever see Jolida mentioned anywhere;I expect they are just good but not great - as stock units. I talked to the owner of Underwood Hi-Fi in Atlanta briefly and he seems quite competent - he would sell you a new, with full warranty, Jolida 502b with mods for $1600 plus shipping (www.underwoodhifi.com). Or, there are used Jolidas on Agon.

Hope this is helpful; to summarize, an audition of a decent tube integrated amp with Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures would be a great place to start. If you like the speakers, you can then find a tube amp to suit...

Cds9000, I'm a budget-minded person who opted for the modded Cayin from Bizzy Bee about a year ago. I can tell you that the 30 wpc it produces seem louder and more efficient than the 65 ss wpc my Yamaha receiver produced. I've tried a variety of speakers in my living room and the Cayin plays them all as loudly as my ears can tolerate. Unless you plan to set up your 2-channel system in an auditorium, I think you'll be pleased as can be with a modded Cayin.

Phew, that's a lot of info. I'll start at the top:

First, my budget is about $1500 for an amp. Delsfan, I should've been more clear. Integrateds are what I'm looking at, not stand-alone amps. I'm also looking to spend about $2000 on speakers.

Soliver, thanks for the link. That's exactly the kind of figures I was looking at to answer my intial question.

Dlr/Dan, you touched on something that I was going to ask later, but since you brought it up, I'll ask now. Tube pre-amps with a SS amp seem to offer the best of both worlds. Obviously, there's a compromise by going this route. What is it?

Winegasman, thanks for the direct comments on the Bizzy Bee. What kind of speakers do you have, and what type(s) of music do you listen to the most?

Another question: I've heard people who claim to have had great success pairing Def Techs to tube amps. The theory goes that their self-powered bass section provides all the bottom end you'll ever need, while freeing up your amp to power the bipolar section. Anyone have any direct experience with this?

One more note to help you guys understand what I'm after in terms of sound. I heard a pair of Totem Arros paired to a small SimAudio amp, and I LOVED the sound.

Sorry to be "Johnny 10,000 Questions" guys, but I really do appreciate all the info. See, when you're in my position (relatively young, lacking in personal experience with true high-end, and on a tight budget) your choice of internet forums is limited. I can go to the average-joe sites and listen to them talk about how great their Best Buy Kenwood receivers and Yamaha speakers are, or I can come play with the big boys and actually learn something. Thanks for all the help.

-Chris