Are you too old to be an audiophile?

Thanks Farjamed and Frogman...

I like that crime scene analogy, too. I also think our sense of (audible) contrast is more developed than most. Just like a photographers sense of color contrast is better than non-photographers. It's all about the ear-to-brain or eye-to-brain connections.

When my wife asks me to listen to a noise at night, I don't listen for the noise, I listen to the quiet. Better contrast.

So let's assume someone can only hear between 250hz and 2kz. Still gonna tell me it doesnt matter? I mean no offense to you if you are not trolling just trying to elicit a reaction, but I truly do not understand how you do not understand this point.

No offense taken, and no, I am not trolling. I'm offering a different perspective which happens to be my own. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter that our hearing acuity is different from each other. I'm saying that is one of an infinite number of factors at play that might make you and the next person unique and different. I'm saying that another person's ability to hear and discriminate a way that music is reproduced by a system to their own personal liking does not hinge on any one thing, but a whole universe of of diverse factors. Pointing at one of those factors and judging that they are someone who should be ignored or listened to based on that single factor is ludicrous, IMHO (ie he's older than 60 so his opinion probably bears no relation to what a 30 year-old might prefer - in fact they may prefer exactly the same kinds of things). Take the example about the detective you liked that someone came up with (and I agree, it is a good metaphor for some of what is at play here). Make that detective a one-eye'd detective, or one who is otherwise visually impaired and may not see quite as sharply as the next person. I'd still posit that based on his/her experience (we'll assume he/she is a longtime veteran like Columbo - and Peter Falk actually does have a glass eye) he would see more at a crime scene than the average untrained and inexperienced person. Take my previous reference to my longtime audiophile friend who is deaf in one ear - I've listened to many various systems with him over the years, in many locations. I've listened to his comments on those systems and I will tell you for certain that he may not hear soundstage, but his ability to discriminate and facilitate improvements is top notch in my book. We also have somewhat similar, but not identical, musical tastes and I think that does help. So holding someones ability to hear above 15khz, 12khz, or whatever, does not seem like a given qualification for that person giving very valid and astute observations about the way a system sounds. In your example of someone whose hearing was severely impaired I just don't have enough experience with that to comment, other than there are speakers that I've heard with very limited range that are profoundly enjoyable. I suppose I would weigh severe hearing impairment in if it was something I knew about them, just as I might weigh in their preferences in music, sure. As far as the example of the dealers pushing some wire that Douglas mentioned in his post - one could as easily assert that they had an agenda in selling the wires they represented, over other possible choices as well as the one Douglas already owned (which meant no sale to them). Indeed they also could have had hearing impairments and tastes that do not match Douglas's tastes, and also could have been praising the wires based on their use in a different system. I don't know. I'm not sure why one would jump to the conclusion that they had hearing impairment and that was the cause of their preferring the wires they did. Again, so many things at play and all of that is just speculation and really does mean nothing. Ultimately what counts is what you enjoy yourself - I don't think one can elicit a formula for screening reliable candidates to provide you with those answers. The best candidate is you.

Like I said in the original disclaimer I meant no offense to anyone. The title was just to draw attention. Obviously I do not discriminate against the opinions of the "elders" in these forums.. I come here looking for that advice, after all. I have no doubt that experience is much more inportant than ones ability to hear above 14khz. It was just something that o had wondered and thought it would be an interesting discussion. Food for thought.

For me, what most impresses me about a system is imaging and soundstage but I do value the higher frequencies because I can't stand the muffled sound. When I first started looking for speakers I was looking at b&w. What I didn't like about several of their more conventional floor stander designs were that they sounded closed in and boxy to me. What attracted me to the gallo 3.1 which I own currently was the fact that they sounded so open and had a wide range in which the treble does not fall off. At least horizontally anyway.

One of the main reasons I even started the wondering that started this
Topic was my dad. I bought him some high end shure earbuds which I think are amazing for portable playback. He wasn't impressed by them. He didn't think they were any better than the other pair I'd bought him for
home listening which are the Sony 7506. He is not hearing impaired. He loves music. Why can't he hear the difference? That was my thought process. Now I don't want to get in to the models of headphones because that's not the point, but I have te shure e5c headphones and bought my dad the newer shure se530. I could hear the difference between these two and it's in the midrange. The 530 has a much much better midrange to the point I almost bought a pair for myself even though I already have the e5c. The e5c isn't bad but the 530 is amazing by comparison. Why can't he hear this? Granted he isn't impressed by the e5c, and he is just one man. Could be that it's because he doesn't listen as closely as I do but I find that odd because he prefers headphone listening to
Speakers because he says he can hear tiny details on headphones. Anyway that's just what got me thinking down this road we are all on. Thanks for all the responses. Hope no one was too offended because that was not the point and I'm sure I could use all of your help in bettering my system. Even the deaf old guys. :)

** typed on an iPhone so forgive any typos or random capital letters please

Don't get me wrong, Farjamed, you asked a good question and it's prompted an interesting discussion. You have nothing to apologize for and I didn't really see you being offensive to anyone. Certainly no offense taken on my end. As far as your dad and the differences in what you hear, who knows. Just out of curiosity, have both of you actually tested your hearing to see if that is actually something that might be at play, or are you just assuming that because of the difference in your ages. If so, check out this article in the NY Times. And another fluff piece on CBS News here. It's not just older folks who are vulnerable to hearing loss.

I am reminded of a recent audition I was doing of two headphone amps. I have headphones that are a bit challenging to amp well, and certain amps do a better job than others. I was trying two of the amps that are reputed to do a very good job with these particular cans (and indeed they do). I'd made my own assessments of the two amps. Then a good friend who is also a music-lover/audiophile with many years of experience came to visit. He's another person I've shared plenty of listening sessions with in various places and we actually have pretty similar tastes, but are not always right in line with each others preferences. He listened and gave his assessment. He preferred a different amp for different reasons and did not echo many of the ways I was hearing the two. Then a third person came by who was picking up one of the two amps which I was borrowing. He is a headphone buff (honestly I don't know what his experience has been but his musical preferences are in another world from mine). He also listened using his music (as I said, very different from what my friend and I listen to). He had entirely different things to say about the two amps. Who's right? Which amp is better? Should you pay attention to any of the three of our different opinions based upon age...musical preference...experience...a hearing test....or?

Another example...over the years I've had many musicians come by and, usually in passing, hear my system (I never actually invite people to listen unless I know it's an activity they enjoy), whatever form it may take at the time. My wife's family has two musicians and my wife's degree is in music performance. Now a few musicians have stopped and listened in awe and have made some very vivid observations about what they were hearing, but many...no most, just get into the music and basically shrug off any appreciation for how it was being presented. My wife's family all know what's up with my system, but none of them really get it, and their few observations would not at all indicate they are listening from the same standpoint I am, or have the same appreciation of what's going on. I know none of them have the same priorities in assembling a system, and none really care about the same things I do. Who's right? Which approach is "better"? Are they deaf, or is their hearing otherwise impaired? Don't think so, and in many ways, musically they are far more sensitive to some aspects of presentation than I am. Still, they just don't care whether the music is coming out of a boom box or a thoughtfully assembled system that cost as much as a car. Who should you listen to for advice and on the basis of what? It's a valid question you ask about hearing. I don't know that the answer is so simple, except to say that ultimately you're the best judge of what sounds right to you.

BTW, I love the illusion of soundstage (with a 2-channel speaker system) as well, so we're on the same page there. There are plenty of folks who feel it's way overrated, but it does thrill me.

ok, have fun, kids.