Zu Soul Superfly

Not sure if you missed or are ignoring my post, Zanon. No standard Souls have been sold yet by virtue of the fact that they haven't released them.

They will be coming out in the near future and there will be an introductory pricing below the $1800 for them.

I don't know very much more about the Soul v Omen, but they look very similar appearance wise and if my understanding is correct and they employ the same loading with the same driver/super tweeter and the Omen has the new Mission internal wiring, I would probably jump on that over the Soul... That is unless there is more info out there to come which will further differentiate the two.

300 threads? I'm aware of maybe five on the internet, and I search... frequently.

Yikes! Glad I early adopted. They're worth every penny at that price, but I don't have that many pennies for the hobby at the moment...

Whats going on with Srajan's review? It's been hanging at 'more in due time' for months.

Does binned mean it was pushed to the back burner or that it was nixed all together? It sounds like the latter.

That is too bad if its been nixed. It seems demand is truly overwhelming production and that there is a queue of paying customers waiting for a pair. Tough choice for Zu--furthering their commercial interest or satisfying their customers. I respect their choice.

That said, I really like Srajans' reviews and have bought a number of pieces over the years based on his endorsements as I feel I have similar sonic priorities to his. His Druid review was what made me consider Zu in the first place.

I guess we will see where the chips fall on this one. Thanks for the info.

Also, where the heck are all the owners? Didn't the very first run include more than thirty pairs (early adopter run)?

Thanks for clearing that up! Its a shame you won't be reviewing this one as I love your reviews and your site.

I usually find myself auditioning gear based on your endorsement--I wanted to see if my early adopter/unbiased findings mirrored yours this time around with the tables turned.

Keep writing great reviews!

Fred

Start burning them in with whatever crap old receiver you have around the house. They take a bit to start sounding good so you may as well take advantage of the downtime.

I just noticed that Zu came out with a new line of cables which appear to be their new 'top of the line' at a pretty darn low cost. I'm curious about their speaker cables for the sole reason I read of so many people preferring libtec to anything else with Zu speakers, but I'm using an all Wywire system right now and don't think I want to even experiment with breaking my complete chain.

Still, its cheap though...

P.S. I also just noticed Sam Telling also backed out on the stereophile review due to the delay.

Zanon,

Absolutely nothing at the moment. I was previously having a little difficulty with the emotional communicative-ness of my analog setup but since moving to a system made of Wywire through out I have finally put that behind me and also gained a level of refinement and performance I didn't know I was missing.

That said I have two amps (SS and Tube) and two preamp outputs and would love the ability to simply swap the speaker cables while retaining similar virtues. After experiencing what I have now cable wise, nothing I've owned before will cut it, but I do wonder about synergy for the second system with the speakers own manufacture--especially at the bargain basement 'customer appreciation week' prices.

If the omen isn't meant to undermine the standard Soul and retail for both are 1500 and 1800 respectively. Then who would ever buy the omen?

My speculation is that the price raise of the Soul Superfly is indeed correct. I suspect the Soul will come out at $800 or so less as planned putting it in the mid $2000s. If that is so then the Omen will be a meaningful inclusion at the $1500 mark, essentially becoming what the Soul was intended to be.

Seems like they are diluting their line a bit, but if it brings new satisfied owners to the table then more power to them.

Got a reply from Zu regarding the line up. Soul is NOT a dead idea.

There was some info they haven't released in their email to me so I will cut out only whats pertinent to the line up.

"The Soul is still coming out and I'm happy to explain some of the rational behind the Omen. The Soul and Soul Superfly are difficult to produce in bulk due to the paint and shape of the cabinet. Here at Zu, we've long been looking for a way to produce a "Zu Quality" speaker at a price that anyone can afford, our target is a speaker below $1,000. The Omen has the same driver/tweeter combo as the Soul, however is in a cabinet that's much easier for us to produce."

Another VERY interesting tidbit:

"The Omen doesn't have the same shape, however does employ the same Greiew loading.

Please don't hesitate to ask questions especially if something looks funny on the boards."

It sounds to me that the Omen is going to be a more boxy Soul with Mission internal wiring that still incorporates the Greiwe loading. I wouldn't be surprised if it is almost as good as the Soul Superfly.

Drop them a line, their new CEO is extremely responsive.

Zanon,

You are correct, as stated it doesn't make much sense. I don't know what the final price of the Superfly will be, but $1800 is still the target for the Soul and down the line when enough Omens are sold to bring production costs down they will probably lower the price to be more in line with the intro.

I don't know how far down the line that will be, but I'll ask the new CEO to chime in as I don't know what information is sensitive vs. what can be stated publicly.

Thanks for clearing that up Bill. Is it the same super tweeter?

Basically it sounds like this may be a Druid with better bass?

Where did that extra couple DB efficiency go?

Back to the topic of the Soul Superflys, I just got word that my Firstwatt F1 has been successfully converted to an F1J!

I've been informed that is sounding like a gustier F3 at this point. I suspect this pairing may be something very special. Will report in the days to come.

Fz1jmp,

I view the 60 or 90 days as trivial if you get in on the promo price. Unless you live in B.F.E., if you don't like 'em in 4 months just sell 'em locally for a grand.

At the speed Zu has been getting the Superflys out, relative to actual I bet I could have a local buyer for mine within a week for my promo price--kinda makes return shipping irrelevant.

My Firstwatt came back today with the F1J mods! Aside from the prescribed updates, I had two power supply caps replaced which appeared to be worn.

Honestly--my first impressions are not particularly good with this pairing. Lower noise flood, much better top to bottom extension, and superior resolution than the Dynaco, but initially at least, it does not sound musical--kinda sterile and disjointed.

I'll let this sucker burn in/warm up more before commenting further, but I hope time brings out the goods.

Very well could be playing a part BUT I recall liking the F1 a bit more before the Semisouth R100s were installed. I'll give it some time for everything to break in as new PSU CAps were installed.

That said, Zu has officially updated the Superfly page to emphasize the recommendation of tube over solid state for the Soul.

That is the list! Thanks. There was a more curent one where they actually made quick notes of the virtues of faults of each on the list, but that will do nicely.

Glory,

The AS s30 is the amplifier I am most curious about and would LOVE to try with my Superflys. From what I've read it sounds like a match made in heaven, but between heat output, exposed tubes (infant and cats) and the fact that it seems to go for MORE than the MA-60s on the used market (when one rarely comes up used...), I don't think I'll get to hear it for a bit.

The Firstwatt is sounding a bit better with better with some time on it, but I've still got a very clear preference for the Dynaco at this point. We shall see where I end up, but at this point I'm leaning the tube direction--the updated Dynaco is just so damn musical!

Anyone notice the Soul is out? And with intro pricing too... http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul.html

Bwp,

The choice would be easier if Zu hadn't inverted the discounts. They gave $500 off the cheaper speaker and $300 off the more expensive one. doh!

Zanon, my friend. It seems you're looking for a conflict here ;)

I suggest you give Zu a buzz or drop their new CEO a line. They have a long term plan which makes the Omen and Soul's existence alongside the Omen make perfect sense, but its not my place to voice it.

Of course the Soul is the standard at $1800 and the Soul Superfly remains at its projected price in the US.

From the specs of the Omen I suspect it will be a slightly more laid back speaker than the Souls. Despite same or similar driver/tweeter as Superfly (CEO told me same as Soul, Sean told someone else same as Druid).

I think Zu described the Omen as a shorter Druid that isn't gap sensitive (hearsay). The Soul (standard and superfly) were both described as the next evolution/superior to the druid).

Again, speak to Zu directly as their CEO volunteered plenty of info, but as they haven't made any announcements on the forums I won't spill the beans.

Zanon,

There really isn't anything confusing about it... I think you should re-read a little more carefully.

$1800 is msrp. Pre-orders are discounted to $1500 for new Zu customers and to $1400 for existing Zu customers.

No they aren't.

Omen: 1500msrp $1000 preorder

Soul: 1800msrp $1500 preorder new customer $1400 prior

That is soooo friggin' cool, man! Congrats!

I'm not sure what room light green wouldn't clash with, but its all good when you listen with the lights low!

Roscoeiii,

I saw your message on AC and was going to respond after tonights events (just got out of Roger Waters doing "The Wall" at Nassau Collisium--amazing).

I haven't actually settled on anything yet. I've been talking quite a bit with Phil behind the scenes about potential upgrades and had resolved to purchase a Chinese EL156 integrated when I stumbled upon an Atma-sphere S-30 within my budget.

I figured due to the fact that the integrated is available all day every day at the same price while S-30s barely ever come up used, I would give it a whirl.

I had just finished resolving not to buy an amp with exposed tubes, but somehow convinced myself that if I do like this solution I can rig something up to keep my kid and pets away.... it will probably look terrible, but next weeks listening sessions should be interesting.

For what its worth I was exchanging emails this morning with a friend who was dead set on buying the Omen, but after hearing it and the SF at a Florida Zu party, he is ponying up the extra money for Superfly.

On a side note: I've got the S-30 sitting in my car now and can't wait to leave the office!

The S-30 arrived in good condition, but there were two tube fatalities on the way. My first impressions are a bit mixed. VERY transparent, detailed and super liquid with good control over the speakers. I may need to tweak around a little bit as emotionally its not completely emotionally stirring at the onset--it is two tubes short and being fed from a single ended preamp (don't have balanced) so I guess we'll see how it works out.

Is that based on it being a better 'value' or is it a signature you prefer irrespective of price?

I'm getting used to the Atma=sphere amplifier and it is really an impressive piece. Slightly dry, but I'm going to roll some 6sn7s in and see how it does. I suspect this may be my Superfly keeper.

I've been doing a lot of listening lately with an Atma-sphere S-30 with NOS 6sn7s and feel it is a very solid matching. It took me some time to get used to such an accurate and transparant sound as I was coming from a Dynaco, but I'm growing fonder of it by the day and can recommend it.

213Cobra heavily recommends pairing the Zu speakers with 845 SET amplification. Though I haven't heard that particular type of SET with the Zus (or ever for that matter) he's has a great ear.

I am not sure what the question means as to whether monoblocks are overkill for the speakers. Mono configuration doesn't have anything to do with the power output of the amplifiers. I've owned 2.5 wpc mono blocks for example.

I think that these speakers are good enough to leverage the merits of any amplification I'm likely to be able to afford in the next decade.

It may take a minute to get used to the OTL sound, honestly. I wasn't much of a fan at first but its RAPIDLY growing on me, especially after rolling 6sn7s.

I'm finding these speakers are so revealing of amplification and the amps I've tried are soooo different, that there is always an adjustment period (vintage tubes, to s.o.t.a. ss, to tripath to otl).

I'm very interested in hearing an 845 amplifier with these speakers as 213cobra recommends but I'm having a hard time conceptualizing an increase in enjoyment over the atma.

For anyone wanting to avoid tubes and power the Superflys with SS, I'm borrowing a friends Aleph clones while my tube amp is under the weather and its driving these speakers extremely well. Significantly more alive and enjoyable then the Firstwatt F1 or F1J I used previously.

Roscoeiii,

I do not have much information on these Aleph monoblock clones at all. I know it puts out roughly 60-70wpc but didn't inquire too much farther. I recently purchased an Atma-sphere S-30mkII which is a bit under the weather at the moment. It appears a resister may have gone and I am not a DIY guy so I've been trying to diagnose it/get help.

In the meantime I have a local friend who recognized my rig has been down for a couple of weeks and offered to loan me these unused monos.

I was liking a lot of what the S-30 did, especially after a tube change, but I'll tell you--in my system I think I actually prefer the Alephs. There is a similar level of transparency to the OTL amplifier with a significantly less analytical sound... 16 tubes in the Atma-sphere and the SS Aleph clones are a touch warmer with better tonal colors. They're offering really good control over the the drivers and are more engaging. I felt the staging of the Atma-sphere was a little flat, but its wider and deeper now.

I have my heart set on tubes at the moment as I'm hoping for that midrange lushness, staging and ultra emotional presentation that I've experienced a few times with tubes, but these things are damn satisfying and I like them better than... probably everything I've used with these Souls so far. FWIW I'm not sure my Atmas were healthy specimens for the comparison... Then again, I wasn't looking for a comparison--just wanted to hear music again and stumbled on a great pairing.

I'm believing more and more that these speakers do indeed come alive more with some extra juice.

I have been speaking with 213cobra quite a bit via email and his enthusiasm for the 845 tube and my faith in his ear from prior conversations and advice led me to purchase a pair of monoblocks to discover for myself. He believes the 845 SET to be the ultimate amplification for driving Zus and I'm excited t find out for myself!

I would say its sound is more similar to the F1J than the F1. The F1 was leaner a little thing harmonically and perhaps a little cooler in its tonal balance--The F1J on the other hand was a little warmer and richer and seemingly quieter while being 'cleaner'.

The Alephs tonal balance is more along the lines of the F1J to my ears, but with improved dynamics better staging and perhaps better tone--its more engaging. The F1 and F1J both had a little dryness that I'm not experiencing here.

Wilsynet,

My S-30 is on its way back from Atma-sphere via FEDex now after a servicing to bring it up to spec and a few updates.

I'll get to evaluate it healthy for the first time as I bought all new power tubes for it. I also have a pair of Shuguang Black Treasure CV-181s I'm going to throw in the first position followed by my Ratheons in the second two to see what this amp is REALLY capable of.

I have also been talking with 213cobra quite a bit behind the scenes and under his guidance I picked up a pair of 845 monoblocks which are doing VERY well as they burn in. They are the Shuguang S845 MK amps and I believe these are the fifth revision (early revision was plagued with a couple reliability issues). They came stock with Black Treasure CV-181s and 300Bs and with red label 845Bs and with a list of $2400 they're punching well over their price range. Without full burn in I like them better than the Alephs I've been using which I enjoyed quite a bit and found myself prefering to the S-30.

BUT--I suspect the S-30 was never healthy in the first place, so the real shoot out will be between my atma-sphere and the 845 amp over the winter holiday.

On a side note: I ended up with these two amplifiers after deciding NOT to go with exposed tubes for safety reasons with two cats and a soon to be mobile infant... lol. Well done, Fred.

Zu has some B-stock stuff listed: http://www.zuaudio.com/store/b-stock/

Pricing seems interesting, especially on their cables at 75% off.

I personally use Wywires throughout my system and very much like how its working with what I have, but the cost isn't practical for everyone and the opportunity to step into Mission cabling for under a hundred bucks may interest a few here.

Might be an opportunity to try the new event line cheaply as well if they have B-stock of those too.

How did you order?

I'm trying to get a pair of mission interconnects but I feel like I'm in email limbo and don't want to miss my chance to get a pair as I have a single opening in my system/am curious.

Dave,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. Well written and very insightful. If ever hot, exposed tubes become an issue in my house I will probably investigate the Quad IIs based on you and Phil's findings.

I have been extremely happy with the way my system is sounding driven by 845 tubes via a pair of Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks. It is hard to make these speakers sound bad, but from my experience this is the ultimate! Sound is sweet and fast while being harmonically developed and very dynamic. It also adds a little something special and romantic to the sound without being annoying and euphonic.

Phil is dead on in recommending 845 SET to drive Zu speakers and my only criticism of the pairing has nothing to do with SQ... Its heat output! These make my Atma-sphere S-30 seem cool running and put off far more heat than the Pass Firstwatts.

Magic. :)

My Chinese 845s are giving me a tonally beautiful yet vivid and exciting presentation thats just more holographic and beautiful. It may err a bit to the romantic side--not euphic/syrupy like the ST-70 I had but there is a certain magic to the presentation that makes for a more emotional listen.

My Atma-sphere S-30 came back from servicing today, its repaired and 100% and I listened for about four hours after work and it was impressive. Very transparant, dynamic and with some rolled tubes it did a nice job of tone and harmonic foundation--it also had pretty slamming bass. But for all its transparency and detail it doesn't have the magic and musicality I'm being spoiled with and I threw it up for sale on audiocircle. If it doesn't go in a day or two I'll move it here to the gon.

The Alephs are my favorite solid state option for the Souls so far. I described their merits in a prior post and stand by those impressions, but the bigger SET adds a certain reality and enjoyment I prefer to audiophile adjectives.

I've run these things with Class A SS, Class A SS transcunductance, Tripath, Class D, OTL, tube PP and SET. 845 SET is king to my ears. I don't have the vocabulary to convey the magic of the pairing like 213cobra has, but I'm very grateful he guided me this direction.

The amp juggling adventure was fun (and stressful at times), but barring catastrophe I'm done!

The major irony being, I was content with my sound initially, but wanted something cooler for the summer. These 845s make my Rawson amps feel like the cooler summer alternative. Its snowing outside and my damn windows are open 2 feet away from me!

Probably so--we'll qualify that with:

Decent 845 tubes;
competent design; and
reasonably good output transformers...

On a related note: Yes, I have heard similar things said about Zu speakers with 300B. Hell, 2a3 and 45 as well for the matter. I guess the common denominator is SET amplification. That said its hard to make these suckers sound 'bad'.

Still... I kinda wish I had my Fi 2a3 monos still, just to hear them on more sensitive, higher ohm speakers than the Abbys they drove.

If anyone on or near Long Island, NY is contemplating buying a pair of Cosmic Carbon Superflys, please let me know.

Seeing the Superflys offered in Walnut and realizing they might actually fit in with a furniture scheme my wife would approve of has me desirous of working out some kinda swap finishes.

I didn't want to speak too soon and announce landing on a setup that was "perfection" for my tastes, but I've given it a few weeks now and the desire to amp roll is done.

For the guys who tuned into my amplifier rolling adventures, I have finally settled on a pair of Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks driven by a Shindo Auriege-L preamplifier.

Shindo/845/Zu is one deeply musical, beautiful combination!

Looks like some big new things are going on at Zu... new website and new speakers announced it appears.

Definition MKIII and a $31,500 number called "Experience". Sadly, it looks like the Soul Definition is no longer in the works. A darn shame as from emails with their former CEO it sounded like its pricing wasn't going to be much higher than the Soul Superfly. He'd also promised to send me out a pair for amateur review... doh!

Soul Supefly's pricing is up to $3750 now and it appears the standard Soul isn't an option... I'm also seeing an Essence bookshelf for $4k.

Actually... hmm, it looks like the prices of everything have crept up. Even the standard Omen is up to $1875 which is more than the Standard Soul was supposed to be....

Interesting....
Hmm... for that matter, it appears the standard Soul isn't an option anymore

Troy,

refer to the comparison pdf to see what I got that pricing. Lists all models including the new def 3.0s and experience and their retail pricing.

Holy crap. Have you guys read the 2010 Q4 entry in the company history part of their page?

Zu hires “venture capitalist” Kristian Pettengill as CEO, hired to develop Zu’s business and position it for outside capitalization. Unknown to Sean, Adam and the core of Zu, Kristian is moving Zu down a road where Kristian benefits but at the expense of Sean, Adam and Zu. Kristian Pettengill establishes terms with all suppliers, moving Zu from being cashed based to accrual. And having fiduciary and business responsibility Kristian unilaterally doubled the new accountants salary, tells her not to pay suppliers, and further instructs her not to bother Sean and Adam with these details. All core Zu people are distracted, kept very busy training and coordinating all the new hires and product production—included Sean and Adam. All core people are working insanely long days trying to keep up with fourth quarter sales, on top of everything else. Kristian focus on revenue and pays no attention to profit, running obscene discounts on products, damaging Zu value and leveraging short term cash flow. Kristian Pettengill falls short on all responsibilities and promises. Adam and Sean are noticing big problems with the running of the Zu 13-days of Christmas promo and ask for a complete review of position, he is laid off. Zu agreed that K.P. could go to the CES show in Las Vegas to follow through with his “meetings with likely investors.” Two days before the opening of CES in Las Vegas, Kristian Pettengill is gambling with new creative hire Chuck Williams, playing $2,000 hands at the blackjack table; Adam and Sean see unauthorized transfers in Zu’s bank account, learning later that Kristian has sweet talked his way back into the account. Sean and Adam realized they have a big problem, that Kristian has not positioned Zu for funding, likely has no potential investors, and has not built a credible business plan. Kristian Pettengill is fired the day before the start of the show. Ron, Simon, Chuck, Sean, Adam, experience the longest show of their lives, realizing that under Kristian Zu had gone from being in the black to being upside down several hundred thousand dollars.

THAT explains quite a bit of the bizarre sales strategy...

I was actually using an Eastern Electric Minimax preamplifier with Tom Tutay mods when you heard my rig (and took home the s30). I never did try driving it directly and now that my Eastern Electric DAC is moded and I had the volume pot disabled, I don't really have the option to experiment.

Knowing how Atma-sphere gear sounds and particularly with Superflys, I don't think I'd recommend driving it directly--I definitely think an active preamp is in order.

Awesome, Roscoe!

Did you ever swap the 6SN7s from the stock Sov? I really hated those tubes and was not happy to be using them in the pre to show my rig.

Did anyone here get the chance to compare the Soul Superfly to the standard Soul? Zu is closing out 20 Standard Souls in the beautiful Walnut finish for $999...

If I had the cash to leave it in storage for a while, I'd buy it to put in my next living room with my Redgum integrated and move the cosmic carbon Supeflys into a dedicated space.

Hard to rationalize buying speakers to store at the moment, but dang...

Very interesting. I caught that they were 12ohm in the ad, but thought it might have been a typo. I assume they will be 98db efficiency then too?

Solid deal! Wouldn't have even occurred to me to order upgrades to the closeout, sounds like that will be 95% of the superflys and in a beautiful finish... I'd love that walnut over my cosmic carbon.

Keep us posted on how this hybrid fares.