Zu Omen or Tekton Lore

Sebrof: this is excellent! Thank you so much for your time and effort and comparison here. You have put my curiosity to rest now, finally!

Now, from your “to the point” review, it is obvious that the Lore gets the edge, but can you tell me, is the differences you are talking about extremely obvious, or subtle?

Also, interesting there are these differences, since both speakers use the SAME Eminence driver! Zu modifies it by cutting out the whizzer cone and installing its proprietary phase plug. Were you aware of this??? I find it interesting that you said the Omen filled the room a little more, but quality is not on par with the Lore. Sounds to me like Zu made a decision to compromise quality for more SPL. Someone I know that understands this stuff better than I do, warned me that this practice could cause issues elsewhere.

If this is true – and from your review it seems it is – this is some discovery.

re: "I think it's safe to say they are similar but not the same."

Agreed! They are both Eminence and appear to be very similar but I see now they are a different color and part so I just want to apologize to everyone if that was misleading.

FINALLY, and hopefully, some of you guys won't think I am a nut job anymore for all of my initial rave reviews. I told you guys what I owned before and that the Lores ran right there with all of them for a fraction of the cost!

We now have more evidence to conclude that the Lore is the real deal for a grand! This guy definitely has the skills and talent to build a great speaker - that's obvious - but personally, I believe it is his integrity and walk with the Lord that keeps him on this road of choosing to give us the best designed speaker for the money, rather than cutting corners to cover other costs (i.e., marketing) and more profit.

This industry needs more of this. A nice departure from the standard chicanery.

They are indeed fanatastic speakers - punch WAY above their weight class. It does everything minus the weight and low end/extension of much larger speakers, yet it holds its own. Most of us are using low powered tubes with these. Put a decent and well matching front end on them in a small to medium sized room, and they have the potential to be the last speaker you buy... but if you crave 20Hz bass or have a huge room... you may want to look at the new Lore-based speaker.

I know what you mean - the Lores are a very clean bass and not designed to have artificial "fullness." I've owned many speakers that sounded more "weighty", but few have matched the articulation/accuracy of the Lore's bass.

I think you would be a good candidate for the new speaker - Eric is telling me that the weight and bass is just incredible. I believe it, and it better be for a 54" tall speaker with 2! 10" drivers. He is selling it for $2K as the introductory price. But I know that's not cheap to most of us, yet it is very reasonable when compared to the speakers out there that sell in that range - at least for now on paper anyway. Time will tell...

Let me know what amp/integrated you decide to go with. I still believe you haven't really heard the Lores yet. Good to hear from you C...

Hey guys. I ordered my new MTM T3 Lore-based speaker tonigh so in due time we will have some feedback on the new model!!

I absolutely dig the Lores! This is an upgrade. My room is a bit on the large side so I should benefit from the 2nd 10" driver and the 3 tweeter array. From what Eric is telling me, the Pendragon (the name of the new Lore-based speaker), is going to have similar voicing/sonic character as the Lore, but with allot more impact/dynamics, and better clarity since 1 driver doesn't have to fo all the work. It also extends down to 20HZ!!!

By the way Charlie - check out the Tekton blog, and you will see measurements of the Lore. It clearly extends down to 30Hz, so this is proof that the perception of lack of weight is definitely based on some bias or room node. I was shocked by the measurements! But I am sure the new Pendragon will certainly have all the weight and then some. Stay tune for my review in a month or so!!

P.S. Have you dumped or updraded that Hafler/Counterpoint combo yet???

Irish - the thread is called Zu Omen v Tekton Lore.

We had been waiting for someone to compare the 2, and finally soneone did!

Now I am sure ZU speakers are excellent compared to most conventional speakers in their price range (though not really apples to apples), but the truth here, was that 3 men - one of which has a pair of Wilson's, hence high expectations - unanimously decided that Omen was no competition for Lore. 3 MEN!!! with NO bias toward either brand. In fact, one of them owns Omens and was seriously disturbed when he realized he would now have to place an A'gon ad as a result of this conclusion!

One of claimed he become agitated by the one notey bass

The other is selling his Omens now

The other just didn't think it was close

So my suggestion to you - stop posting here and go build a better $1K speaker! Is that not what it's all about??? Someone else has raised the bar.

And I wish you many blessings from above in doing so - you are up against talented competition.

Hint: you may have to cut your OH and/or marketing expenses

Paul- can you tell me what you listed it under? I don't see Tekton as a choice... perhaps you just made it and it hasn't shown up yet??

Thank you guys!!!

He said about 3 weeks, so figure about 4-5 tops. Pretty neat process though - he's actually having me measure my avg. ear height in my listening chair and he's going to make the tweeter cutouts to match that height. Also, my pair will be front ported, as that's what I prefer and Eric wanted to do the production version that way anyway. I like to feel the pressure in the room, plus front ports are much easier and more forgiving when it comes to placement.

I am really enjoying buying speakers from Eric. Where else can you go and spend "sane" $ and have somone build a custom speaker to YOUR liking. Great stuff!!

Oh and Charlie, I agree... it is all about the sound qaulity, but I would be careful in "trusting" the ears when it comes to hearing specific frequencies. This is where measurments are MUCH MORE accurate (assuming the measurment is done correctly). My ears can believe I am hearing 30Hz, when it is really 50 if you know what I mean.

It sounds like you are a guy that really likes slam and dynamics. If so, then unless you are in a smallish room, you will surely benefit from another driver. Bass authority is done best with a dedicated bass driver. With that said, the Lore is FANTASTIC consider that driver is doing 30Hz - 3KHz. Simply astonishing... now imagine what it will do when it's crossed over to a dedicated mid? That's where the Pendragon comes into play! Lore on sterioids!!!

Yes, I know what you are trying to say Charlie. I am just trying to give you some facts and insights. If it's not enough for you, then so be it we are all unique in what we perceive as high end sound. If it were me, I would try some different scenrios in the room and on the front end. Not sure why anybody would sit there and just not be happy ... ?

But as far as chasing nirvana, remember I have downsized from a $13K+ rig at one point. This is all for fun and to get some reviews on a speaker that some may be more reluctant to try since it is a little more expensive. It is also a better fit for my room. Stay tuned!

B rodgers - The drivers are also Eminence. It is still a very simple design. He is telling me it is the next step up and very similar sonically to the LORE, but you know Eric - he does not want to get too technical on how he achieved this as it draws attention away from the end result.

I will surely let you know when I get mine. I am also very curious about how he achieved this.

I know which tweeter he is using in this model and it's a very good tweeter.

Cwazz - I am all about diversity and to each his/her own, but that comparison is just silly. I have an NHT sub for HT. NHT makes great stuff! But is not in the same league for music. It is not even designed to be in the same league for music. That's a good thing if you prefer that, because it should save you lots of money down the road since you cannot discern differences in higher end speakers. My wife is that way, and I commend her for that – though I do not really get it.

But to say a couple $99 speakers and a sub sounds better than the Lore, is like saying my 2011 Ford Fiesta would outperform a brand new Mitsu Lancer Evolution. The Fiesta gets great gas mileage and handles awesome, but is not an evo, nor is it designed to compete with an Evo.

The fact that you prefer a $99 speaker tells me you either:
Are used to and perhaps after a HT type setup and are more of a background music listener than an actual critical listener (again, nothing wrong with that)
Cannot discern major differences in resolution (because there would be tremendous differences)
Or perhaps you are affiliated with the competition in some way. After such comments one must begin to wonder. You would likely be on an island all by yourself with that analysis :)

Lastly, I can promise you, if my $99 speaker with about $35-$40 worth of parts out performed my $1,000 speakers, you can bet that the $1,000 would have been sent back for a refund the next day.

Again, what is the logic and point of all of this negative feedback? There is certainly NOTHING wrong with you not “drinking the same kool aid." But seriously, you are on verge of losing all your credibility with a post like that. I've had many HT based speakers - most sound really good, but they cannot not even come near recreating the live event, nor are they designed to.

Genjamon - much more thoughtful and value added response compared to what I initially posted Thanks.

I've spoken to Eric numerous times and I don't believe he meant for his blog entry to come off as insulting or arrogant. I know he takes his work very seriously (probably too seriously) and he was probably attempting to put a nail in the coffin with that post. I agree that the Lores are not what I would consider the most "full" or “weighty” or “rich” sounding speaker I’ve had, but at the same time I didn't think they were lacking in that area. But again, I think we can all agree that it is asking allot of a single 10” FRD to give us everything.

I am, however, very interested in hearing what the new Pendragon can do - it is designed to be an extremely dynamic and heavy hitting speaker. I am hoping that it will be everything the Lore is plus what the Lore cannot do due to physics, etc. Honestly though, and from speaking to Eric, I am sure the lore is still the bread and butter and best value in the line. I chose to take the plunge, but as I mentioned I was very reluctant to make this move because the Lore was a speaker I could have stayed with. I am not looking back though... I will post on them soon!

Rcduck7 - one of the members here has (or had) Emerald Physics. His A'gon name is Telescope_trade

You can see some if his posts on this thread

Hit him up and tell him Gpowered sent you...

Wow, so I am not crezy after all LOL...

"I know if I check your earlier post you compare the Lores to speakers costing thousands more. I beleive you actually called them the best AND,last speaker you would own."

Yes! And they could have very wel been, if it wasn't for the upgraditis :)

"I would love to be able to have multiple amps , preamps to compare with the Lores , but as everyone knows here this not a inexpensive hob."

Cwazz - do what most of us do, sell your front end, and buy something different for equivalent $ that is a better match. What exactly do you have again so we can make recommendations? You definitely have to be willing to take some chances. It may seem like I have all thos money to burn - I do not. I am just using $ I have brought in from equipment I have sold. I agree I do not have the money to go nuts - especially being a young family with 3 children

Cwazz - Assuming your Fisher can get you about $400 back in your pocket, allow me to suggest the following amps that are all on Audiogon now - most I have heard minus the Cayin (but I've heard great things about them). All of these should be fairly easy to resell also.

Vincent SP-331 Hybrid (although $700)
Cayin TA-30 Bizzy Bee (this would be my choice)
Jolida JD-302B or 202A

Rega Mira 3 - if you want solid state

I believe any one of these could be a great match for the Lores. It seems like you prefer vintage for front end, no?

Although out of the amps I mentioned, it would be wise to do an analysis based on Rescoe's lesson on damping factor -on the tubes amps that is - we may be more likely to nail the desired outcome

Genjamon - with the Lores that close to the back wall, are you compromising 3D image and depth with that placement? Just curious...
when I had my Lores, the back of the speaker was at least 3 full FT off the back wall. Usually with front ported designs, the bass doesn't change as much when moving closer to a back wall... this is interesting findings but obviously every one has its own character.

Sebrof is in a smaller room so that explains why the Lores can overload the room easier.

Just an FYI - My Pendragons are being painted Monday, so stay tuned I will have them the following week!

UPDATE: I am happy to report that my highly anticipated Pendragons are shipping. Email me if you want to see a picture. Eric made some slight aterations/refinements to the production version. They are front ported. They look incredible!!!

Wednesday is the day!! Granted they will be break in mode for a while :0) Stay tuned!!

Great review Ballywho!!! The Lore is surely a pleasant surprise! Please check out my P-dragon write up in the review forum

CWazz sure has a way w/ words. Charlie - glad you chimed in because I wanted to let you know I tried an Adcom amp with the Pendragons, and I could not believe how much better of a match my 12 watt Xindak EL84 amp is! In fact, the 12 watt tube amp is giving me much better bass than the 150 watt Adcom and no doubt a much sweeter sound in the mid range and top end. I am now fully inclined to tell you that your Counterpoint amp is likely the issue!

These speakers will play nice and loud with transistor but really come into their own w/ tubes!

See the reviews section of this site and you will know what happen to my Lores - I jumped on the P-dragons while Eric had the intro price on. I am thrilled I did.

Cwazz - boy your post is just a but sarcastic, is it not? Where is the resentment coming from? You sound like I moved from a Tekton to a different type of speaker... I simply moved up the line... similar sonics just more of everything.

Also, here's another tip for you: the upgrade was funded by a 95% return on my Lores, and a 50% downgrade on my amp... and it worked out just as planned - a very nice improvement indeed.

Take notes my friend... it's not about what you have or can afford, it's about what you can do w/ what you have to get what you are looking for... ; )

I am a motivated person in everything I do, and where this is a will, there is always a way. Time for you to stop the "woe is me I listened to someone's advice and bought the wrong speaker", and take our suggestions about changing your front end. Your posts do not bear fruit and you seem to ignore any help and instead post sarcasm. Please do not hold me to such high standards.

"My reason for switching is to get a little more forgiving speaker for lower quality recordings"

The lores will be perfect at this. That's an area that is critical for me, because my inventory of "audiophile" recordings is practically nothing. For me, it's all about the emotional experience and the ability to give God the glory. A highly analytical system is not my cup of tea, but with that said, the paradoxical truth about the Lores is their ability to be forgiving but also sound like live music on live recordings. No other speaker I have listened to does this. The P-dragon does it as well. Maybe it's an Eminence thing...

Re: eminence thing. The Katz 1 has a Fostex driver, so perhaps Eric has something up his sleeve to pull this off. Interesting...

Hey guys! I suppose I need to clarify a few things. Telescope is right on.

My dealer buddy ended up taking on trade a pair of Greybeard KB 2/1 speakers and offered them at an insane price because the co. is out of business and frankly, most people have not heard of the company. The Greybeard KB's 2/1’s sold for $9K back in 2000, and the cabinets alone likely cost $2K to build - 2" thick would and finished in slate. Also, all scan speak drivers/tweeter and they have quite an addicting sound as well. Knocking on the cabinet is like hitting a stone wall, lol!

In many ways the Pendragons were the best speaker I have owned. While the sound completes with many $5-$10K speakers, the build quality of course does not. The build quality is good though… just not quite at the level of a serious high end speaker. But +they are not far off! I think adding Black Hole dampening would just set these apart and be the icing on the cake. The good thing about Eric is, as a custom builder, he could do it if someone was willing to pay the premium. And the only reason I say this is because I now own a speaker with a bullet proof cabinet.

The Pendragons recreate the "live" sound amazingly well (better than my Greybeards)! and the bass had the most impact and slam out of all of the speakers I have owned. The bass is also very tight, and in fact on the last day before packing them I was seriously rethinking and regretting my decision to sell them but they were just not the best fit for my room. Although my room was likely just big enough, due to the layout, I have to sit about 5-6.5ft from the speakers and they are just not really designed for that.

As far as the Lore vs. Pendragon, see my review of the P-dragon in the reviews section. In my room, I likely should have stuck with the Lore. Although it does not have the slam and low end of P-dragon, it is better suited for small to midsized rooms and/or near field listening. In other ways I think the two are quite similar – while the Pendragon is completely full range and leaves nothing really on the table, the Lore seemed to get 3D and disappear a little easier but I attribute that to the fact my room was better suited for them and single driver speakers typically do. It is always about tradeoffs.

But make no mistake - the Pendragon is an excellent speaker and my selling them had to do with the timing of the Greybeards and the fact that they were not the best speaker for my room. I did hear that Eric is designing a mini-Pendragon though, and that should be interesting…

So there you have it… you know I always call it how it is guys. Hope this helps. -GP

Steidlguitars: fair enough. Obviously the product was good enough to WOW me and that is not easy. There are not many products that have excited me like that... and I've had way too many!

Listen carefully to Cpapace comments - reconciles nicely with my review...

Cwazz - you and both know you are NOT interested in P-dragons anyway so what's your point? Enough with the games... my actions do not "magically" make your comments become any more or less genuine than they are were before.

I have another very relevant point I want to make... some of you remember, I drove my Lores with 25wpc Quicksilver Mini Mites. It was a perfect match and my recollection of the sound was one that was about as perfect as it could have been. That was one SWEET system for $2K! I then had a chance to get the P-dragon at the intro price, and jumped on it... but to make room it meant stepping down in amps (a big gamble), and I then used a XindaK MT-1. The Xindak is also a very nice amp, but I never thought I had the same match as I did with the “Quicks”... although it was getting better by the day before I chose to go in this new direction. I think with 12 watts and mostly weekend listening… it was just taking a while to break the speakers in.

I now have a Marsh A400s driving my Greybeards, and I "think" I am back to a great matching system again. I have been blessed that most of the time when I make changes, I end up matching equipment well. But I have to say with the P-dragons it was a decent match but I just know it would have been a different animal with those Quicksilver’s... FWIW

Please understand there is nothing in my review of the Lore or the Pendragon that needs to be rectified. Let's have some common sense - NO $2,500 speaker is going to have $10,000 speaker build quality, but in case of the Tekton's they do rival much more expensive designs in sound! That's where Cwazz and I differ! I could have easily stayed with either speaker had I not chosen a different path. And a 10 year old design or not, keep in mind that the Greybeard speaker I have now retailed for $9K back in 2000, which means $15K today... and in allot of ways P-dragon beat it. It just wasn't the best speaker for my room. I think that is a tremendous testimony.

Here is the bottom line: regardless if the product is exceptional or just plain good, whether it is $1K or $20K, the newness always wears off and the temptation to move on to something else arises (some of us worse than others).

I for one am not afraid to make changes... I've been doing this long enough to know I can just as easily put another fine system together. Just ask my wife... lol.

Restless_times: really? Was my Lore review that far off? Did you not say that you were going to purchase a second pair you liked them so much? Did my review help you in making that purchase decision? Then why would you doubt my Pendragon review... ? If anything this should give it even more credibility, as this will hush the naysayers who accused me off being affiliated with Tekton Design.

Word to the wise: do not even consider length of time somone keeps something... it is irrelevant.

Rsfphil: NO, you did not mistake... your room sounds perfect. In my room, I have to sit about 6ft from the speakers and that is too close. Your setup is ideal for this speakers. You will love them. Looking forward to hearing your impressions...

Yes, I noticed the pictures. I am going to email Eric and ask him about that... but from the looks of it he is using stock pictures anyway.

And for another turn of events... I just placed an order for my 2nd pair of Tekton Pendragons this evening! I was able to try a very expensive exceptionally built and very good sounding $9K loudspeaker but ended up with the realization that the Pens are REALLY that good, and there are no better speakers for this audiophile. There is something special that the Tektons do that other speakers cannot seem to get right... speaking for the Lore and P-Dragon that is. This guy studies live music and his designs replicate it better than any other speaker I have owned.

Dare I list the herd of speakers I have owned in the past 3 years again…

This will be the 1st time I returned to a speaker I got rid of. In a couple weeks I will have a new pair of Pens in beautiful satin white. What a ride it has been. I am truly blessed!

No cwazz he is not. He asked emailed me w/ questions about the Pendragon though...

Jdoris was just alluding to the fact that I am selling my GB's (just to stir the pot re funny), but as I explained above, moving away from the Tektons made me realize that my tastes are biased toward the Tektons. Because at the end of day, regardless if one design is better or worse than the other, it comes down to personal preference... and what I know now is no speaker I have had (even though many were much more expensive), sound nearly as convincing as the Tektons... and it's a HUGE advantage that the Tektons only need a couple watts.

Learn from me guys… if you like the Tekton Lore / P’dragon sound (I can only speak to the models I have owned), stay with the line!! Even if you go higher end, conventional may not be better… don't get me wrong, it was fun for a little vacation but not it’s time to return home, lol.

Quicksilver Mini Mites were a perfect match! And Zman used an Almarro A318B with great success

Morganc - since you've heard the Zu offerings, it will be interesting to get your take on the lore!

Rsfphil: I tried both, but found the 4ohm to be a better when asking more from the amp... although the 8ohm sounds just fine if playing at lower to moderate volumes. At normal listening the sound quality between the two seemed almost identical to me. For the amp's sake, the 4ohm tap is the right way to go. That way, it can handle the lower impedance demands... though likely not highly critical because Eric's speakers are designed with a very linear impdedance.

Morganc- any updates now that you've had the Lores breaking in for a while???

Morganc - Wow, that is just fantastic! When do you take delivery on the Lores? And your not alone... while I have plenty of "room" to crank, 2 small children at home make it almost non existant, So it's more important to have a speaker that can do it all at lower volumes as well.

Let's stay in touch... I have my 2nd pair of P-dragons on order, but this time I am going to be more strategic about placement and amps/cables selection. I didn't do the best job of that in the first go around. But this has turned out to be a blessing. The first pair I had was front ported, which I figured would work better in a smaller room, but while it resulted in an est. +3db gain on the low end, it also overloaded the room just a tad. We'll see what the rear ports do - Eric recommended the rear ports plus he has inventory already CNC pre cut. I have enough room to get them about 3-4FT from the back wall so that should be a non inssue.

Morgan - figure about 150 hours of playing at moderate to loud levels to reach full potential. You should notice them opening up and smoothing out a bit as the drivers loosen up.

I am hoping to somehow get a Pendragon vs. OmenDef comparison at some point. Just tough not an abundance of Tekton owners here on the West Coast of FL.

Thanks for the amp recommendations!!! I will definitely consider!

Hey Sebrof: There is actually only ONE Pendragon speaker. Before it's offical name, Eric referred to it as "The Lore-based" speaker. I said that also so that the moderator wouldn't deem my post unrelated to this thread.

Truth be told though, it is surely an offspring of the Lore. The sound character is very similar... although the Pendragon has a mucher higher spl capability, a much larger soundstage, and more clarity... but again, all relavent to the room size. Put these in a small room and it could overload the room easily.

Zman: anytime brother... just let me know! ~!~

Pwrjam – No problem – stay tuned! I am planning to break them in on my Marsh A400S (200w). It is the best solid state amp I've had thus far (prev. best I owned was between a Naim Nait XS or a Bryston 4BST). A tried an Adcom with my 1st set of pendragons, but I was disappointed with that match. It will be interesting to see what the Marsh does. I also still have my Xindak MT-1 as it has not sold, but if it does sell, I am looking to acquire another tube amp with 40-50 watts... or maybe another set of Quicksilver Mini's. I am open there and the Xindak is fine for the short run.

And also... yes, I will be comparing the Pens to these Greybeards, which by the way, are just really something special as well. I am really enjoying them while waiting for my new Pens to be built. If they sell, they sell... but keeping the them isn’t a bad idea either because I will likely never be able to afford a speaker with this level of build quality... it sure makes a difference in their abililiy to disappear and no “boxiness” at all.

Oh, and btw - per your question a while back, my room is about 18x17 where the speakers are, but in the back of the room the 17ft expands to about 22ft. I can only sit about 6.5ft from the speakers though because I am in a loft and I have a stairway behind me and the back wall behind that. I have plenty of cubic volume overall to work with... so we’ll see what happens.

Hi. Knowing the Tektons well (I've had 2 pairs and the third on the way) I would go with tubes. Tubes bring out the best of them. No comparison.