Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

Dear @pani  :  I'm sure that's that is what you like it but sorry due that with that " terrible " all tube phono stage you can't be aware of the " errors "  true quality performance of any TT. Yes, I listened that EMT several times.

Now the 927 was designed with the full advise of Broadcasting Technique Institute to EMT and was designed for transcription recordings ( 16" ) used in those old times and as other broadcasting TT designs was builded to run 24/7/365.

I don't know if you listened with the same tonearm/cartridge and if was with the original EMT tonearm then I really question seriously your gradation of those TTs. because the original EMT is way resonant tonearm.

R.

@brunorivademar  : Who cares about TechDas/Micro Seiki or the OMA?

Similar radio station vintage tonearms where all superior to the 927 , examples: 

SP10MK2:  0.001%        DP100:  0.002%

Those were designed ( as the 927 ) for radio station play.

The SP10MK3 was designed for home and some radio stations used, Denon had two models one for radio station and one for home use: DP-100 and DP-100M and I think exist a third DP100 for RS.

Do it a self favor and don't put your bullets in the 927 because you always will lost in any dialogue on that specific regards.

R.

@brunorivademar  : " I would challenge any direct drive or belt drive turntable owner to share speed deviations and not many would be below +-0.20% Does it make any difference? I  "

Wrong again. What you posted in that thread specified: 0% speed stability and was you who posted on those 3 DD TTs you mentioned there and that I shared here.

R.

Dear @mijostyn  : I agree almost on what you posted but that BS expression because some vintage TTs, evenm today, have excellent design merits that we can't just dimished.

R.

@brunorivademar  : " But the only thing I can think the 927 has in favor besides the high torque is the much lower deviation from a perfect 33.33 at ALL times.."

In this thread are posted the 927 specs. Look for and you will read how bad measures that EMT.

R.

@lewm : Maybe I can't explain very well but:

" When does a turntable, tonearm, or cartridge cross the time line between "modern" and "vintage"?  "

The main premise I posted does not changed today so with foundation of that premise that line just doesnot exist.

R.

Dear friends @dover  : " the Technics as a toy in comparison to the others..."

As you and from over 40 years ago japanese audiophiles have a fascination for heavy weigth TT units as more heavy thde better and normally all those heavy items are BD designs. Your unit as the American Sound are ones of the heavy ones and don't forget the today TechDas/Micro Seiki top of the line: heavy gold and silver everywhere. As I said a fascination for the " eyes " and even in rest position any one can say when looking at: Wow  and stupid wow because heavy mass in rest is ok but heavy mass on play develops internal vibrations/resonances as any body in motion it does not matters how heavy it's.

Other significant issue is that japanese are more or less accustomed to tubes electronics, exactly like you, and with tubes every thing can goes " wrong ".

Yes, the vintage DD unit as Technics looks only looks as toy against those dinosaurs.

The Technics like is a Porch 911 and your heavy weigths units that several of you are in love with are like a Linconl Capri or a Bodeville or Cadillac De Ville.

I don't like tubes and certainly dinosaurus and Boneville cars.

Nothing wrong with what you  all like, it's your privilege as mine.

R.

Dear @lewm  : What's the function of a TT? spinsaccurately the LP to listen it. From this premise vintage and today units are the same. Your post to mijo makes no sense to me but now please let all of us to know what is your perfect TT today against today units or vintage ones including the 927. Which main differences for the better?

R. 

Dear @brunorivademar  : Speed stability is only one TT characteristic for a good quality performance but exist other parameters that have in between an intrinsecal realtionship.

You took an untrust information as one of your premises for your statements because in this Agon Analog forum the M.Fremer measurements are not what we all imagine. It's not a trust tool as he showed in the reviews and at the end in that discusiion where he participated he told us that he did those measurements " just for fun " and nothing more.

This is what MF posted:

" I am careful to state that these Platterspeed measurements are for “entertainment purposes only”. All test records are faulty as are all records to one degree or another...""

in that same thread you posted:

"" 

With regards to speed stability only 3 tables I believe take the crown.

Rockport Sirius III

Grand Prix Audio TTs

Wave Kinetics Reference   ""

Yes, speed stability is critical in any TT.

R.

R

Dear @brunorivademar   : Fremmer has been using for his reviews is pretty accurate.

Wrrong. In the thread where M.Fremer posted what I posted to you and where you posted several gentlemans discussed about that " accuracy " and the final result was that is non-accurated and that's why Fremer posted what I send to you and not for the reason you said.

Do it you a favor and read the thread where you posted.

R.

@brunorivademar  : It's you whom just ignore that MF reviews measurements are totally non-accurated and he accepted when say " only for entertaionment " and this posted here not on the reviews.

R.

Dear @brunorivademar  : You are biased to the EMT but you don't show yet facts that can probe what you " imagine ".

It's weird that the cutting lathe machines used DD servo units and not idler ones.  Do you know why?, if you have the rigth answer mainly be for you.

@mijostyn  Technics DD servo units were used in cutting lathe machines as the SP-02 that's similar ( with higher torque ) than the SP10MK3 even in some cutting lathe the SP10MK3 was used.

My favorite vintage DD is the Denon DP 100, I like that TT.

R.

Dear @brunorivademar  :  " These are the true facts ( not " illusions. ) measurements/specs in the 1957 designed 927:

speed unnaccuracy: +,- 0.15%, the swing tell us that the speed unaccuracy in reality is: 0.30% ( the worst I ever seen in any TT. ).

wow an flutter: +,- 0.05% with a swing of: 0.1% ( again the worst I ever seen in any TT. ).

signal to noise ratio: 58db ( again............. ).

as I posted: the 927 was designed for radio stations  ..."

Got it?

R.

@lewm : " were you using the same tonearm and cartridge in all cases, or even in some cases? "

That same question was already posted and till now he does not gives an answer. Well it’s his privilege answer or not but with out that answer his evaluation means almost " nothing ".

@dover  carmelli is a seller/ manufacturer and totally biased, only what he has on sale works as no other items.

R.

@lewm  : the important issue in that context with the 927/950 pani opinion in his comparisons against other TTs still is the same: listened he all those TTs with the same tonearm//LP tracks/even SPL and if all those TTs were " seated " in a similar platfform?

@pani  , does not yet gives the answers even that two of us already asked.

I don't know for you but with out those critical comparison information seems to me that his opinios lost credibility because does " facts " in the comparison only he and his friend knows.

Don't you think?

R.