audiokinesis, thanks for the Acme Audio Engineering School lecture. Looks like this is going to be one of those he said, she said things. 😀
Why is good, deep bass so difficult? - Myths and their Busters
This is a theme that goes round and round and round on Audiogon. While looking for good sources, I found a consultancy (Acoustic Frontiers) offering a book and links:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/guide-to-bass-optimization/?utm_source=CTA
Interestingly: AF is in Fairfax, CA, home to Fritz Speakers. I really have to go visit Fairfax!
And a link to two great articles over at sound and vision:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-2
Every audiophile who is dissatisfied with the bass in their room should read these free resources.
Let me state unequivocally, deep bass is difficult for the average consumer. Most audiophiles are better off with bass limited speakers, or satellite/subwoofer systems. The former limits the danger you can get into. The latter has the most chance of success IF PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED.
The idea that large drivers/subs are slow is a complete and utter myth. Same for bass reflex. The issue is not the speed of the drivers. The issue is usually that the deeper a speaker goes the more it excites room modes, which the audiophile is then loathe to address.
Anyway, please read away. I look forward to reading comments.
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/guide-to-bass-optimization/?utm_source=CTA
Interestingly: AF is in Fairfax, CA, home to Fritz Speakers. I really have to go visit Fairfax!
And a link to two great articles over at sound and vision:
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-2
Every audiophile who is dissatisfied with the bass in their room should read these free resources.
Let me state unequivocally, deep bass is difficult for the average consumer. Most audiophiles are better off with bass limited speakers, or satellite/subwoofer systems. The former limits the danger you can get into. The latter has the most chance of success IF PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED.
The idea that large drivers/subs are slow is a complete and utter myth. Same for bass reflex. The issue is not the speed of the drivers. The issue is usually that the deeper a speaker goes the more it excites room modes, which the audiophile is then loathe to address.
Anyway, please read away. I look forward to reading comments.
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- 124 posts total
"This is one reason I have a *pair* of Golden Ear Triton Reference. Each one on its own eliminates the need for a sub, let alone the two of them combined." - gdhal Yup, when it comes to using multiple bass sources in the pursuit of in-room smoothness, the more the merrier. In general, with intelligently distributed multiple subs (and there are different distribution strategies), the in-room bass roughness is approximately cut in half for every doubling of the number of subs. So two subs are potentially twice as smooth as one, and four subs are potentially twice as smooth as two... and eight subs are grounds for divorce in most states. "audiokinesis, thanks for the Acme Audio Engineering School lecture." - geoffkait. I flunked the Acme Laws of Physics class... which teaches that gravity doesn’t start working until you look down... http://commentphotos.com/gallery/CommentPhotos.com_1407347817.jpg Duke |
good room ratios, enough volume, lots of bass traps, nice powerfull amp and strong stereo subwoofers make for clean deep bass without spending 20k on cables or whatever else... i also got the Mytek Brooklyn and honestly its pretty extended in the low end really clean also, and no compromise on the rest of the spectrum its driving a Mcintosh252 with Eggelstonsworks Rosa and two Velodynes Spl12, with a large back wall full of basstrap and each corners of the room treated as well, my room is rather small and the results are quite amazing. all bought second hand except the Mytek, I use also a Grace M903 from time to time with similar low end but different top end (slightly harder) I call that hi end audiophile on a budget! I couldn't get the bass right without the proper amount of bass trapping no matter the ratio of the room . |
Gentlemen, I agree whole heartedly with Duke's comments from Audiokinesis and would like to point out if you don't want to do room treatment and have the budget you should try out the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 with Room Perfect ($4000 to $5000 depending on options). This includes a world class DAC and electronic crossover network at the base price. Now I admit I am a dealer for Lyngdorf and will financially benefit if you purchase one from me, of course, the upside to you will be the best possible sound your system can provide, It is easy to use and when you are old and feeble you will still be able to pick it up and move it. I do have some lucky customers with Duke's swarm and the Lyngdorf and they are perhaps the happiest of all. Smooth bass as low as it can go. Neal Van Berg www.soundsciencecat.com |
I didn't read this entire thread. If this point has been made, then consider this a +1. A long time ago I did a lot of reading. One of my favorite sites was www.humblehomemadehifi.com . Tony G said it plainly, and often; for tight impactful bass, you must use a cored low Rdc inductor. I use the Mundorf Zero Ohm types. Why don't manufacturers use them? They're anywhere from $200.00 to $500.00 each (depending of size). Since we need one in each speaker, this means $400.00 to $1,000.00 just for the inductors. Are you kidding me. These dollar values constitute the entire crossover cost, if not less. If you own a 3-way or a 4-way, take the leap. Open up the speaker, get the large inductor value, and order them. Yes the lower resistance will shift the crossover slightly, but the gains will be huge. |
- 124 posts total