It runs like a LOMC design in that regards or like the ADC TRX series or B&O or top Signet/Technics ones or even Grado. Yes, it's an important issue.
Btw, I own too a Nagatron 350 re-tipped by vDh. I will test it when I have some time to do it.
R.
Who needs a MM cartridge type when we have MC?
Dear friends: Other " lucky " advantage with my Nagatron 9600 sample and " way inferior " stylus replacement is that due that has not stylus holder then there is not the usual vibrations/resonances developed by that stylus holder. It runs like a LOMC design in that regards or like the ADC TRX series or B&O or top Signet/Technics ones or even Grado. Yes, it's an important issue. Btw, I own too a Nagatron 350 re-tipped by vDh. I will test it when I have some time to do it. R. |
Dear @slimpikins5 : 4 NOS?, well you are really lucky about because the 15/20SS always be a great quality performer. Seems to me that you was enough patience to look for those NOS 20SS stylus replacements, good. Yes, as I told you the ATN15SS is exactly the same as the ATN20SS, the difference is that the 20SS is hand selected. To be aware of listening differences during playing we have to have an overall top high resolution room/system. Any one could live happy for ever with the AT20SS phono cartridge with out to switch to other one, no doubt about. R. |
Dear @lewm : As build cantilevers materials the best are: Boron and diamond. In the old times the " law " wa berillyum that's not even near the boron characteristics about stiffness non resonances and the like that has boron/diamond. Was J.Carr whom answer here to a question about stylus/cantilever " atachment " who said that all but aluminum needs some " glue " and that in a cantilever of aluminum the stylus can be attached by pressure only. He did not say that is an advantage or whcich vintage manufacturers did it. He only gave an overall answer. Yes, my ADC 26/27 comes with aluminum and is outstanding and my Nagatron 9600 even with that inferior stylus replacement comes with aluminum too and performs really good buth both cartridges and many others with aluminum cantilevers performs at that high quality performance not becvause the cantilever material but because the quality design and excecution quality levels of the CARTRIDGE MOTOR. Ceramic is terrible for say the least. My Lyra Clavis D'capo was designed with a ceralloy cantilever and performs " so so " and when I re-tipped with boron cantilever and through the very first listening sessions you can sware it's a totally new cartridge design. But is not the only first hand experiences with ceramic: SAEC original ceramic headshells in its top tonearms are absolutely resonant and terrible, AT made ceramic mats as Audiocraft too that I owned and both extremely terrible, remember that Graham tonearm in one of its versions he choosed ceramic for his tonearms was terrible too. Today Linn top of the line LOMC cartridge comes with boron and ceramic but I never experienced this one. Titanium is a little better than ceramic but nothing for cantilevers can beats boron and diamond. Again, at the end the quality performance of any cartridge belongs mainly in the CARTRIDGE MOTOR. Yes, cantilever/stylus shape and other cartridge parts are important too but that motor is the name of the game. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @lewm I was so " stupid " about that aluminum characteristic that started to ask my re-tipper to use aluminum cantilever with pressure fit stylus. Latter on I took in count : Raul if that's so good why Lyra did not use it? After that I retipped again all those cartridges with boron/line contact and all perfors/performed way way better. I learn from my mistakes. R. |
Dear @harold-not-the-barrel : I don't know the year you bougth the ATN 20SS through LP Gear but 200.00 is a low price for a NOS. I seen prices for it as high as 480.00, so your price was a fair one but maybe was not a true original sample. AT cartridges as any other cartridge design has the " house " signature and as you said the AT is not your coup of tea. I like some of the AT/Signet designs as the 20SS or the AT24/25 or the TK10ML2 and even the anniversary one that as you I sold it. Btw, yes Moving Flux designs are very good you have too that MF-2500 or even the MF-200 R. |
Dear @lewm : The overall cantilever build materials signifcance and differences was analyzed at least twice times, one in this thread and in other thread in both appeared the facts scientific/enginnering facts why Diamond and Boron are " the ones " even ruby and saphire are both a top beryllium and ceramic is out of question. J.Carr learned from his " mistake " about. """ not what they are made of or what is the shape of their stylus. I am more thinking that the nature of the transducing system is a major factor in determining what I like and like less. """ Finally in these last posts some one, in this case you, that makes reference to cartridge motor design, at least that says something about. R. |
Dear @halcro : You are masochistic because you always come back to receive more. Ok, here I go because you don’t let me alternative: """ I have many boron-cantilevered cartridges and they simply don’t possess the ’magic’ of beryllium ... "" unfortunatelly after all your audio years you just don’t understand that the main cartridge signature belongs not to the cantilever material but to the CARTRIDGE MOTOR designs and several facts here in this thread and other threads proved. Yes, you are wrong about but you have the rigth to make it public, good for you. """ Why does the world need any other cartridges other than Lyra (if they are perfect according to the OP)? """ why exist Chateu Margaux if already exist Chateu Laffite? and where I posted Lyra cartridges are " perfect ". You are not only wrong again but posting liers too. """ And what if I said that I can’t stand the sound of the four Lyra cartridges I have owned.... They are all as divorced from the sound of real ’music’ as any horror devices I have heard.... Better to choose the exact OPPOSITE of what Lyra chooses """ those statements speaks not how bad are the Lyra cartridges but the other way around: speaks how bad and poor is your room/audio system. I can’t understand why you like to hit you by your self ! ! ! Btw, ask to the Lyra owners why they like their Atlas, Etna or Kleos or even in the " down " models. Ask your self why J.Carr was and is so successfully audio manufacturer for so many years. Ask your self or ask him. """ cartridges and tonearms that the OP waxes lyrical over were the WORST.... AT-20SS (Ahhhh 🙉), Signet TK10ML (Arrrr 🤬), Technics 1000C Mk3 and Mk4 (😴) and AT150ANV (imitation AT155LC) """ well in this thread exist several 20SS owners as over the audio world out there and in this same thread page a gentleman gave/posted facts why he like it. Again plain wrong. """ Signet TK10ML (Arrrr 🤬) """ you never owned the one I touted in the thread: TK10ML MK2. """ Technics 1000C Mk3 and Mk4 (😴) """, again you never owned the stand alone MK4 version but other than me you can ask to any MK4 owner inluding a gentleman with a true reference audio system as @downunder . Wrong again. """ AT150ANV (imitation AT155LC """. who told you ?, Wrong again. Did you listen all those cartridges named with 100kohms?, of course not because your " reference " phonolinepreamp has no 100koms impedance control. My fingers already tired to write " wrong again " but such is life. """ recommended the Grace G-940 which is the cheapest, plasticky, inept, UNDAMPED """ According who is undamped? here you can learn about because even that you own or owned you don’t know on that Grace design: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/grace/g-940.shtml wrong again and another lier. """ ANYTHING...... I immediately add it to my ’official’ List of ’DON’T BUY’ items..... "" don’t tell me that because what you have says a way different " things ": "" Many of my favourite MM cartridges "". Btw, where do you learn on that kind of cartridge designs? I don’t finish yet: don’t was you who touted the Davinci Grandezza tonearm you own? how any one could touted a tonearm designed with out azymuth adjustement? Incredible but more incredible is that you still own it. Don’t was you one of the persons that were against removable headshell tonearm designs? and today 90% of your tonearms are removable headshell ones ! ! metal ones UNDAMPED. Heavy resonant. Btw, in Agon I was the first person that touted removable headshell tonearm designs and almost every one just laugh for say the least, you included. don’t was you the person that was against an older of my posts where I was talking of naked TTs ( no plith. ) that I had? and latter on you started a thread doing the same but at the end your proccess let to go to a no naked final project after all !. Don’t was you the one who told I’was wrong when I posted ( several years ago. ) the absolut neccesity to have in any system with passive speakers two self powered subs integrated in true stereo fashion? And was you that latter on bougth a pair of subs for your system. Why do you own DD TTs?, in Agon I was the first person that touted the DD TTs and how Technics or a humble Denon beats BD TT and many gentlemans here and elsewhere just laughin again but things are that almost all of them rigth now own DD units and some of them makes his life audio business manufacturing DD plinths and other DD " parts ". You never learn because you started that stampede with the Victor DD TT when by its real manufacturer specs is a way inferior TT than the vintage Technics not only that but the today new low prices Technics units and in your thread I posted facts on this where every one took in count that no reason stampede for the Victor. This is the level you have, certainly not a reference. Btw, was not you the one that agree with me ( I have your post. ) that the SAEC ceramic headshell was " terrible " one? Btw again, who was the first person that brougth to Agon SAEC tonearms? yes was me and I touted till I learned and you still own SAEC because you did not learn on it yet ! ! But with that mediocre system is extremely difficult you can learn. You need a true reference room/system. In other threads you and me already had several dialogues about with facts why is a mediocre system. Starting with your room, followed by the subs room position and that non reference phonolinepreamp. The other person is not different its mediocrity is even higher and perhaps never can learn too. Both always try to hit me with out success and this fact is a deep frustration for both but always come back for more. R. |
Halcro: I forgot this very good one from you: for years I posted that one of the worst headshells were the Orsonic but you followed the advise of other person I bougth some of those true " terribel " resonant headshells. Time latter I received an email from you asking me that for a while I stopped to post against the Orsonic headshells because you wanted to put on sale here in Agon and I ccepted not to post about to help you can " scam " some other ignorant. I have that email from you. And exist several other ? ? ? ! ! ! ! ? @lewm agree there is no need for all those but don't let me alternatives. R. |
Dear @travbrow : Glanz was the origen of moving flux ( a variation of MI/IM. ) adn after it Astatic that is a very old cartridge manufacturer took the Glanz patent and improved it and from Astatic comes something a little superior to any Glanz no-matter what. Way superior? no a little better but can listen the differences if your room/audio system has the resolution for it. You can read here about: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc/post?postid=171... of course that if the offer is really good then buy it Glanz and latter on Astatic when be available. Glanz is more easy to find out as you can attest where your seller has 10 samples !. R. |
Dear @timeltel : Did you listen in the last two months the Empire 4000 D3? well if you own it and don't do it yet please do it a self favor and listen again. Btw, if some body is interested in the @travbrow 's love the Empire 1000ZE/X I own two samples ( as almost all my vintage cartridges, even with some models I own 3 and four samples. ) and you can get from me. Just ask about. @halcro what can I do for you when you come back one and other and other again for more?, latter on I will care of you. Stay tunned. R. |
Hi there: I said I don't answer to s people but an exception could be welcomed. """ The Astatic 100/200/300 as well as the Glanz MFG series are all Moving Flux. Hence the MF model designation. Allow me share a few things I do know about these carts. All of the MF series from both Astatic and Glanz were made in Japan by the Mitachi Corporation. I can also say for sure that the Astatic/Glanz MF generators are not all the same. Well on the outside they are but the MF200/300 put out 4.2mv. The MF100 and all of the MFG Glanz 31/51/61/71, series put out 3.5mv. The MFG51E Glanz is not a MF200 or even a MF300. The sound is quite different on each. They should because they have different output and have different styli. The cantilever on the MFG51E I have also has a much different aluminum cantilever than any other MF units. It uses a very large taper. Looks heavy to me. My MFG51E is on the bottom of the totem pole sonically of all the MF/MI carts I have heard. The MFG31E/L is much closer to the MF200. It uses the same color stylus holder as well as the same cantilever. All three have different styli. MF200 is a nude Shibata. The MFG31E has a nude elliptical and the MFG31L has a nude line contact. "" from vetterone who owns a true reference dedicated room/audio system, I know it because I was there. His MBL speakers are something to listen as his self re-builñded Technics SP 10MK3. Lyra Olympos performed very good down there. R. |
Other ceramic build material in cartridge bodies is its extreme fragility because we can’t have gas-tigth contact between the cartridge and headshell because ceramic does not resis to much force when we screwd at the headshell where its mounted. Ceramic is way resonant material for that specific job. Btw, that beautiful 100% ceramic headshell is the L-1000 where only the headfshell connector is made for metal. In reallity is a thick flat plattform with a stand alone ( black ) aditament where the cartridge is screwed. Due to its thickness resonance probles goes a little lower but still there. A beauty of headshell as design, at least I like its look a lot. R. |
Dear @harold-not-the-barrel : Four-five years ago in this thread we had same discussion about Glanz and Astatic and exactly as you and vetterone ( the statements I posted came from him, not from me but are similar to the ones findings I posted years ago. ) posted you are rigth. It is useless to have a dialogue with s people that along ignorance just can't understand " things ". iously that Astatic and Glass cartridge motors are not exactly the same because Astatic ask for some kind of " refinements ". Astatic came way after Glanz stop or gone out of cartridge market. Inductance values are different too and @travbrow if it's true that higher output level could be for more wire in the coils could means too that comes with powerful magnets and not only that exist designs with higher output but lower inductance. NO are not the same Astatic and Glanz and Steve/vetterone that owns a true reference dedicated room/system confirm it in his statements I posted because he can listen differences between those Astatic/Glanz models that ignorant posted several times sounds the same. But to be aware of those differences we need to own a true reference room/audio system and that person that understand almost nothing owns and average/mediocre system and this fact is the more important for any one that reads any post coming from any one. Not only in this thread but in all threads and when we read posted opinions where we agree or not before we can have a judgement about we must have to analize with whom comes that opinion which level has his audio system and his first hand experiences on the subject and his self knowledge levels on MUSIC and Audio. Almost all discussion in audio forums are because the ignorance levels of each one of us that are participating in those discussions. No one knows everything on every MUSIC/audio subjects, no one and that's why we need always to be willing to learn with the attitude to learn and not with the attitude to win the discussion because this is non important but to grow up learning about. The 2500 cartridge that you own you bougth at a true bargain price and this great Astatic cartridge motor is different and way better than the Astatic newers models as the MF 100/200/300. Why Astatic decided to change it? is something I don't know but the newers models are good but not at the 2500 quality level. Other MF cartridge design is the Micro Seiki one that I still own and that I posted its performance many years ago in this thread. It sounds similar to Glanz or Astatic?: NO there are differences, not big differences but exist it. Micro Seiki named its cartridge motor design: variable flux and as almost all Micro Seiki items this cartridge is first rate performer. I own with original box and everything. Mitachi is not the only cartridge manufacturer for other out there. Scan-Tech is other one that build cartridge for Lyra, Linn, Audioquest and many other companies that are in the cartridge market. I own/owned top models from Lyra, Audioquest and Linn and all sounds different because Scan-Tech builded according what each designers ask for, according his particular characteristics they were(are looking for. I never said Glanz is a bad cartridge even here I said to travbrwo to buy it and in other thread what I said is that I don't like the cartridges that comes with integrated headshell and that's why I never bougth it but I bougth it in stand alone version. I sold it. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear friends: About ceramic material for cartridge use. Other that what I posted I want to share other facts about: in the time when AT decided to use ceramic in the body of the ML170/180 ceramic was the latest " fashion " in Japan: headshells ( not only SAEC but other like JVC/VICTOR. This one beautiful made with around 20grs. of weigth: I owned, really beautifull blu/gray shiny finish. ), mats, clamps and tonearms. Manufacturers has really no other way to make research but manufacturing the items with some kind of parts and AT choosed ceramic for that cartridge series but never again made the same mistake in other of its top cartridge designs. That cartridge body material is the weak in that great cartridge motor design. That mistake was similar to the Ortofon with the MC2000 models that follows that one: MC3000, MC3000MK2 and MC5000. I owned all and only the 3000MK2 is worth to listen it. Ortofon never had success with those 100% ceramic bodies cartridge models and never again used the ceramic in their top model LOMC cartridges. Ceramic is for car brakes, is where that material makes a difference for the better not on cartridges or tonearms or TT mats. R. |
Dear @travbrow : Yes that " older " Empire D3 is better than the Gold one, many years ago some owners posted the same in this thread. Btw, the Empire D3 was designed to look 100kohms. Look for a way to do it in your system because the rewards are really high and worth to do it with that 4000 D3. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@halcro : I can see that you are in a hurry. I have no doubt that you are the inspiration for any one of masochism and the best today specimen of that. You was who started with that post and as I said before you return for more and due to your followed posts to the " first " one you deserve that kind of pleasure but will be when I decide about not when you need it. Don't worry what I will post will be something for you can really live and masochist orgasm exactly as you ask for. R. |
Dear @travbrow : Yes, almost all manufacturers advise is to load at 47k but just before I started this thread and because I always like to think and makes things " out of the box " I started to test different vintage MM cartridges ( not like the D3 for CD4. ) loading it to 100k and was a great surprise and discovery for me because almost always all cartridges performs way better for stereo ( not CD4 ) with 100k. Period. So, you could try it with your D3 and other ones you own and decide about. You can't know it till you have first hand experiences and you know how to do it in your phono stge. What can you lost? Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @lewm : " via a Youtube quality recording of playback? I am dubious. " Of course you are rigth. About the undamped ( because is not damped at the bearing, that grease was and has not that fuction. ) subject is very easy to be aware if you own a true damped/resonances’s killer as a tonearm to make comparisons. No one of your tonearms has that design characteristic in the way I’m talking about and in other side your priorities are not exactly as my priorities. Some of us are more tolerant with some music/audio characteristics than others or for whatever reasons some of us are more sensitive to be aware of some kind of resonances/vibrations/noise or some kind of distortions. Added to those each one of us ( I hope. ) have our dedicated and self trained for it test/evaluation/comparison whole proccess and this subject could makes some differences in what each one of us are or not aware of some music/sound listening system characteristics. Your new audio item tells you something of my very low tolerance levels and as that that to tigth/low tolerance levels by my self happens all over each single link in my room/audio system and that evaluation whole proccess I talk about comes according what I’m telling here and at least with that tiny example you have on hand. Other thing is that my target " truer to the recording " makes things different from yours. Remember that what microphones in the recording proccess are " seated " a really nearfield distance from the source where music is agressive and brigth not soft or organic or or other audiophile adjectives that all are wrong adjectives. My room/audio system is voiced according that target and till today no one that listening to it never had any single complaint, people ranginging from music lovers, audiophiles, music players and even " gurus/experts " and rookies too. Still working to be nearer to that target that inrinsically permit you to be nearer to the live event. I’m lucky to learned all what leave me to stay HERE today and still learning every single day. I never stay sticky with nothing but MUSIC and nothing less than MUSIC and its meaning. R. |
Dear @dimitry : Welcome a board. You have a very nice audio system and those inexpensive HSU are very good. HSU are or were very well regarded subs dasigns not only for home systems but for proffesional market.Your 205MK3 is very good and the MK4 is a little better and the last top MM cartridge by this manufacturer. On the LOMC try to find out from them too its vintage design 305MK2 in stand alone version. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @harold-not-the-barrel : It's useless to explain nothing when some one just can't understand what other people said when not even can read in focus what they read. Take a look what in 2015 that same person in this same thread posted and my answer about and today 4 years latter still is sticky to his not a misunderstood but to that " just does not understand nothing ". And I have several examples coming from that person with similar results ? ? ? ? ? ! ! : " The Astatic mf 200 equal to Glanz mf 31L is a good one, This is only my suggestion. Since these brands are clones of each other, ........................... The Astatic mf 200 equal to Glanz mf 31L is a good one, ...... """" Where do you read or who told you that Astatic cartridges are clones of the Glanz? In my understood Astatic ( that's a very old corporation. ) only took the Glanz patent ( moving flux. ) and that's all about. The " clone " you name it: MF 200/ mfg 31L is a good example that those cartridges are not clones. The output level on both cartridges is different 4.2mv vs 3.5mv. Inductance 90 vs 110. VTF: 1.75grs vs 1.25 grs. Cartridge weight: 6grs vs 5.5grs. Frequency response: 10hz to 20khz vs 20hz to 20khz with a 2 db deviation in both cases and I can go on with those differences. As you can see far away to be clones. The Astatic MF 2500 was an earlier cartridge than the MF 100/200, even its inductance value is different in between and IMHO the 2500 is the best performer in the Astatic catalog. As I said Astatic is an old and experienced corporation and did not to copy/clone Glanz in the way you posted. """ Coil windings, materials used, coupling mechanisms and output are distinct across them. """ raul A few days ago I posted what Steve/vetterone posted years ago that confirms what I said 4 years ago. As I said useless and futile to explain about because there is no understanding capacity . Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @cardani : " with its compromises, like the leather chair in front of your speaker direct axis ) just as Raul system is also a superb system in his living room with its compromises ( coffee table in front of the sweet spot) """ Very good point on what the video says like does chairs that makes the very first speaker reflections but the metal/glass table is a huge one compared with mine that’s ow wood material with a cotton carpet and like one third/fourth lower size. But Cardani do you know where are those system Halcro subwoofers?, yes that’s rigth in the worst place to have it and ask him what and at what distance from his chair listening position is what exist behind it. As you know here in our country people say ( not as an insult but friendly. ) when a politician or any one else " attack " to other person that : """ that person has tail ( in this case: very long tail. ) step on /walk on "" and the other one: " a donkey talking of " ears " " @cardani , do you think that as he posted that a person ( me ) that only can listen to 8khz can build a room/system with the quality levels you listen at my place several times? @halcro not only my Acoustic Signature Analogue MK2 units has no single sign of speed unstability ( never ) but no one of my DD TTs neither. Btw, Cardani is not only a symphonic orchestra active player but a young man too with excellent " ears " and his classical music conservatory studies he did it not only in México but at foreigner countries. @halcro he never listened my room/system at near field seated position and he never listened any signgle digital recording trhough my system. When we meet at my place we stay a few hours listening not only classical MUSIC but jazz/blues female singers and like this last time the drums on the Pamarita LP recording: impressive for say the least. I always learn " something " with Cardani and this last time when we were listening to Gary Karr LP ( Albinoni's Adagio. ) recording that is the instrument Cardani plays I told you that the GC instrument that was a gives for him was an Amati and GC thougth the same by him self but it’s not an Amati but a very good French instrument. Cardani has all the details about. Btw, @cardani could you tell to all these audiophiles how do you compare my room(system quality performance against a system you listened that has first rate and very expensive audio items as YG speakers and Gryphon electronics? Thank’s you to joined us. Till next time. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @manorraul : " The reason I don’t post is that I’m not much of an expert ... " this is not a forum ( Agon. ) for experts but one where each one of us can learn every single day. To achieve that each one of us needs to be willing to learn because if we don’t have it then we can’t do it. So you don’t be afraid to post, just do it in any thread. No one of us know everything about evry audio/mUSIC subject. Always exist persons as this Halcro with a way different attitude but not only that but that just can’t understand or read perfectly what is in the posts coming from almost every one. He had several years ( I don’t know why. ) trying to hit me at any price, trying to gain credibility ( that he has not. ) attacking me but because he has no facts and low overall knowledge levels he never had/has success and always finishs/finished our " dialogues " totally frustrated. But seems to me that he like, again and again, to hit him self. Even he lost everytime due that I use his words/posts and videos with what he can win, so before he starts his " battle " already is defeated by him self, go figure ! I’m not started yet with him this time, I will do when I have the time because is boring to , again and again, write low knowledge levels. Unfortunatelly he always comes back for more. Thank’s for your kindness words and the post where he gave you an answer is part of his game. Each one of those comments by my self has an specific reason/facts and people that received it is because deserve it. You can ask Halcro that he shares with you those threads for you can attest what I posted here. The other problem with this person and other one out there is not only to hit me/attack me but to win the " dialogue " and both do not understand that they never can win . The only thing I " admire " from them is their " constant insistence " to lost. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @halcro : This is only as an " aperitif " , my overall dialogue with you will comes latter: you took this statement from one of my posts here trying to following your ridculous " attack ": " In other threads you and me already had several dialogues about with facts why is a mediocre system. Starting with your room, followed by the subs room position and that non reference phonolinepreamp. """ I can add that big metal/glass table and those chairs exactly at the speakers/high frequencies side and first reflextions and followed for what you have at less that one meter behind your seat position. Can you share with all the gentlemans in this thread where are your subs in the room and its playing range frequency and the playing frequency in your speakers? Now, through your ipod you try to say that your room/system is not a mediocre/average one comparing two different LP recordings ( btw, that Albinoni’s Adagio was the same LP @cardani listened last time at my place. ) with two different cartridges in two different tonearms and by coincidence in that SAEC 8000 you are using its dedicated ceramic headshell that you in this forum agree with me that is " terrible/bad " headshell material for say the least . ! ! ! ? ? ? ? Yes, you have the shorter bad memory shorter time I’m aware from every person in this forum. Btw, how any one could has an idea of any system with your videos with two cartridges in two tonearms that maybe no one owns or listen to it before? how they can compare ir to its true and real quality performance levels of each cartridge? how? So, with all those you are trying that I take you seriously?, well I will do but according the very low knowledge levels you are showing in this and other threads. Nothing I said here is a lier but your words or posts. See you latter. R. |
Dear @dimitry : "
Stiff/damped systems are a holy grail of structural and material engineering.... " no doubt about but as @lewm pointed out the relationship between LP recorded surface/TT mat/TT clamp/tonearm headshell/tonearm arm wand/tonearm bearing design/tonearm VTF mechanism/tonearm internal wiring//tonearm to phono stage cable/cartridge build material body/cartridge design motor/cartridge/compliance/cartridge cantilever-stylus shape-build materials and cartridge/tonearm set up parameters amkes an extremely complex whole work for the theory ideal could really happens in the way you posted. Analog high quality performance levels are very complicated ( for say the least ) to achieve it. I'm still in the quest of that " perfection ". R. |
@dimitry : Not only I forgot somethings but remember others for you and audiophiles: Sttifness is a must to have in cartridge cantilevers and Boron has the higher Young Modulus value that any other material but diamond and between other things that is one of the main reasons that makes that LOMC cartridge very well regarded designers choosed boron as their main cantilever build material. But if we return to tonearms we have your " " Stiff/damped systems are a holy grail """ in the Technics EPA100MK2 tonearm designed several years ago where the tonearm build material is Boron along a unique tonearm damping mechanism that even today no one other tonearm design are near it and is the envy of any one. As tonearm neutral performance nothing yet can compare it, certainly the steel vintage non-damped Fidelity Research designs are way far away of that " holly grail " and not only for that but because that tonearm design has several other design " mistakes ". Unfortunatelly that Technics tonearm is out of production but Technics corporation has not only the know-how but the resources to manufacture it again. Yes, boron laminated way is expensive but Technics is part of the Japanese gigant Matushita Co. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Dear @halcro : Even that @cardani is rigth to stop this " bs of discussion " you always come back for more and you are shoting to following losting your credibility. Say I credibility?, I'm wrong you have nothing but those ridiculous videos ( for say the least and I already posted why are ridiculous but you follow showing that just can't read and don't understand why are riculous and why can prove nothing at all. Just for a while or for your fun: change your " fact " and think in real facts. I doubt but...you always can lear or maybe not. Who knows. ). """ which explains your liking for 100K Oms Resistance loading for all your MM cartridges. """ Here in this thread not only me but fleib and dlaloum ( this gentleman is a very orthodox and follows the theory but very good audiophile. ) posted that a MM cartridge response can change with a combination of impedance and capacitance loading. Loading 100kohms makes things better for one simple reason that obviously you can't even seen or see it and I will explain again to help that this time you can understand it: all phono stages has the inverse RIAA eq. curve that goes from 20hz to 20khz Do you understand this?, ok. What makes the inverse RIAA eq. at high frequencies? the inverse of the RIAA recording eq. that's to go with around +20db, then the inverse goes with -20dbs for a in theory achieve a flat frequency response but things are that the eq. is a curve and that falls of 20dbs follows at infinite. So all phono stages has a declination at high frequencies losting naturalbrigthness that has real MUSIC, transparency and that shiny that has the MUSIC. 100kohms recovery a part of that losted hf during the inverse eq. stage and that's why every MM cartridge need it. In the other side during the recording an to prevent that the cutter head could be burned stop the +20dbs in that frequency range around 50khz using a filter.. Ortofon makes a research about and proved all those when they patented his exclusive Orthophase cartridge development. What they did was to joint a " Golden ears " panel ( not exclusive audiophiles like many of us but a mix of true golden ears gentlemans. ) and this panel were listening in different sessions and with all kind of LP music recordings to the same cartridge design where in those same cartridge design in reality had one and only one difference: one sample of the cartridge had flat frequency response to 20khz and the other sample had a +2db at 20khz and for Ortofon people surprise the panel choice was what they listened through the sample with +2dbs at 20khz ! ! ! Do you understand it? For all those facts you are listening something really different in your " superb " room/system. """ It also probably explains your liking for those screechy MM cartridges like the AT-20SS and Signet TK-10ML...""" why do you posted the same again when already I explained to you why you are wrong?, here again hopping you can understand this time: in this last two pages of the thread at least one gentleman posted more than once he really is in love with the AT 20SS. In reference to the TK10ML you named again y posted before that the Signet I touted in this thread was and is the: TK10MLMK2 that you never own it. Do you understand it this time? "" .AND your preference for MC cartridges and Digital? "" please enligth all of us your knowledge levekls about: whats wrong with LOMC cartridges and where are the facts that can prove are inferior/wrong to MM alternative? whats wrong with digital and the facts ( objective points not that stupid: " I like it more analog ", that proves nothing at all. ) that can prove it and that can prove analog superiority ? Please give the answers about and please don't try to come back with ridiculous vidfeos but true facts only. Do you understand it? No, I don't finish yet. Waiting for your specific answers on what you posted before. R. |
Dear @bima : As in any topic/subject in the day by day life discussions came and gone but the hot ones came and will comes as a result of very high differences between ignorance levels of each of the persons involved in that hot discussions. As the differences in the ignorance levels are higher in one side the discussion goes hotter bording in the stupidity stage but unfortunatelly are persons that it's exactly this stupidity what they like to show through the discussions All of us have our each one ignorance levels is several audio/MUSIC specific subjects. As I said before: no one knows everything on every issue, no one. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R.. |
Dear @dimitry : The one I'm refered is the MK2 with boron arm wand/headshell and internal damping. Yes is a removable headshell design but till today exist no perfect tonearm design. The Technics MK2 is a true achievement by any tigth/rigurous standards in the industry. Your RB1000 ( out of production. ) is a very good tonearm too. I had the opportunity to listen through it, very good indeed. R. |
Dear @dimitry : Well, my first post is only to say you that stiffness/damping is imposible to achieve on analog audio. The second post is to say that that EPC100MK2 is the nearest to your " holly grail " not that's the " holly grail ". I own and it's really good tonearm where almost any cartridge performs at its best no matter what. Btw, in your post about you neither said in one and only material when a tonearm is the sum of the parts. So............ R. |
Dear @dimitry """
By stiff/damped, i don't mean a clever mix of materials, but a single material that exhibits this combination of qualities """ this is what you posted before: """ In a mass limited system, such as a tonearm, one has to decide how to use the available mass. One option is put it all toward rigidity, which makes the resonant modes as high in frequency as possible. An alternative is to put a portion of the mass toward damping, """ and as I said a tonearm is the sum of the parts. Anyway, thank's for your contribution and good luck with the new cartridge you will buy inside your budget and your priorities. R. |
Dear @dimitry : Sony is just SONY. I own cartridges and tonearm ( PUA. ) from them. Yes its vintage overall designs are really good. Here, something about Sony: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/total-system-technology.shtml Btw, I own that VC-8 MC cartridge marketed in 1966 !. Japanese entreprises as Sony, Technics, JVC, Denon, Accuphase and many others are almost second to none with the kind of research level and human been talent and economic resources that small companies can't even " dream " to approach a little. R. |
Dear @clearthink : "
while there are some good Japanese audio products they are "overshadowed" and outperformed by many European, Canadian, and even American manufacturers. " I respect your opinion but we need facts about. Here I will put some good Japanese audio items and be so kindness to write/post which Europe/USA similar audio item outperformed to each one: DD TT: Pioneer Exclusive P3a or Technics SP10MK3 or Yamaha GT2000x. Your choice. Tonearm: Technics EPA 100MK2 or Lustre GST-801 or Micro Seiki MAX 282. Your choice. Cartridge: Lyra Atlas or ZYX or My Sonic Labs. Your choice. I can go on and on but those simple 3 examples could help for all of us can learn from you. R. |
Dear @dimitry : """
We seem to agree that one can get excellent results with and without tonearm damping. "" not really, we can't do it with a non-damped tonearm. """ in controlling the arm/cartridge primary resonance """ Btw, the Technics EPA 100MK2 and other removable headshell designs makes a lot about that non removable non-damped tonearm designs can't do it: from where comes the first resonance in a cartridge/tonearm couple? from the cartridge self cantilevr/stylus and cartridge body suspension motivated by the tracking of the LP grooves modulations and the platter mat/clamp used on the TT. After that comes the tonearm/cartridge resonances and what's the very first part of the tonearm that's in touch with the cartridge body?, exactly the headshell. Well, with removable headshell tonearm designs you can change the inertia moment and to achieve the ideal frequency resonance in between inside the ideal range and you do that changing the headshell for a different weigth one and not only that but you can have the choice to mate to each cartridge the " rigth " headshell with the headshell build material that helps about. In the EPA 100MK2 not only the headshell comes with a blend of boron but as the magnesium AT headshells comes with a rubber mat a top the headshell surface working as damping. Other tonearms like the SME V uses magnesium because its self damping factor and additional SME use fluid damping at the tonearm pivot. Yes, the Sony Biotracer is fine as you said but exist several tonearms very well damped and you named Triplanar and by coincidence SME. Wich is the problem with tonearm as the FR non-damped ones? not one but several: first is that's not damped, the damping factor of steel is to low. Its original headshell is a disaster because does not takes directly the cartridge but trhough a inside " plate " that's hold by the main headshell top plate. It's a dynamic balanced design that uses a spring builded by steel too that rings as a bell, no matters what. Even that the bearing has a low friction figure Ikeda decided to use grease inside the bearing that through the time just drys and the internal silver wire is really bad one. Mr. Ikeda real business/know how is on cartridges not tonearms, almost any japanese tonearm design is way superior to the FR 66 that's worst than the 64 because its very high inertia moment that needs an extremely accurate cartridge/tonearm alignment set up. I bougth my 66 ( with integral B-60 base VTA. I still own the B60 for my 64. ) from new through Japanese stereo several years ago at North Rodeo Drive in LA. Through that great japanese audio item source ( now unfortunatelly " defunct ". ) I bougth my 2 SAEC non-damped terrible and beautiful made top of its line tonearms and Micro Seiki Max 282/237 and Audiocraft 4000 with all optinos. Some cartridges I remember to get there were models by Highphonic, Koetsu and other and several accesories like the metal one SAEC S300 TT mat. I sold the 66 that had not the engineering and build quality level showed by the SAEC designs that's the only double knife bearing design ever but bad quality performers. Btw, Dr. Sao Win that designed TT, tonearm, LOMC cartridges and straing gauge ones specified in his LOMC cartridge ( that I owned. ) a serious Warning: don't mount his LOMC cartridge in any tonearm with knife bearing. Maybe you remember Dr. S.Win. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@halcro : You was who started the discussion with no apparent reason and I gave you my very first answer to you and ask to you some questions that till today you not give yet any answer about. Here is my first post to you: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/who-needs-a-mm-cartridge-type-when-we-have-mc/post?postid=172... instead to give and answer you were asking ridiculous things with out posted any answer from your self but questioning only. So I hope you can give the answers this time. In the other side, remember that email to me that you sended about the Orsonic headshells ( I posted here about in the 264 page. And as you can see I have good memory and never say a lier.) that you were ready to put on sale?, no?. Well here it’s: ................................................................................................................ Henry Feiner <hfeiner@gmail.com>Vie 04/03/2011 11:49 AMUsted Hi Raul, I hope you are well and will give that idiot Nandric on A’Gon some well deserved stick? I just wanted to tell you privately that I agree with you about the Orsonic headshell. It is the worst one structurally that I’ve had in my system. When I played some complex bass-note dominant concert grand piano music like Liszt Sonata in B minor-Moll by Barenboim on DG.....the notes distorted incredibly. It took some detective work to find that it was the headshell flexing around it’s single grub screw connection to the tube-socket. But I can’t say anything about it as I’m trying to sell my Orsonic on A’Gon at the moment so please don’t mention anything? Cheers Regards Henry """"""""" ........................................................................................................... R. |
Btw, here it’s how measures the phonolinepreamp you own ( not superb as you said. ): https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipOoxR2PakvraCY8k6xB6ICem8s2zU5KDsMuFKgU?hl=es every one can see that it started at 60hz its bass falls deviation against flat RIAA eq. and both channels have different RIAA eq. deviations: are different curves ! ! ? here is how measures my " mediocre " Essential self design ( with a close friend of mine ) and manufactured by us: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM6CYfCUq-UvC1Foljh1V3TgjreftkYZcKANOTv?hl=es absolutely flat with both channels same RIAA curve eq. response. Deviation is lower than 0.012dbs ! ! ! Next any one can read what an owner of the Halcro DM10 and with a top dedicated room/system posted: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/experience-with-raul-s-essential-3150/post?postid=326250#3262... Here we can read of what a gentleman in USA posted about my " garage like " Essential phonolinepreamp: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/experience-with-raul-s-essential-3150/post?postid=326188#3261... and take a look of that gentleman dedicated room/system audio items where he listened my " garage like " unit: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/651 Can I continue ? R. |
Dear @dimitry : """
you wrote that Rega RB1000 is very good sounding indeed...""" Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said is very good SOUNDING I just say is very good tonearm and any one that knows Rega tonearms understand why is a good design because its little brothers has no one of the 1000 characteristics but the non-VTA function. The best of the 1000 is at its design bearings and tigth tolerances everywhere but never said is very good sounding. Each audio subject has its own scenario and Rega has its owns. R. |
@halcro : It's incredible, you come back for more and who am I to denny your pleasure?, welcomed ! ! Incredible too that with out having the 100% of of the " history " in your hands just came and post with out knowing the facts. I said I have not PP because indeed it's in that way because I don't use it any more for the reasons I gave you and I deleted my PP bank account/credit card need it to make any transactions trhough PP. The PP account is there, never closed but is useless. I don't buy/sell any more through that PP account. That's all. Normally I buy through credit card/western union/bank transfer. That time I told you WU because is a safe way to send and receive money every where from every where in the earth. One other Australian citizen/New Zeland ( ? ) bougths more than 0ne cartridge from me using WU with no single problem both ways. My Agon/ebay feedback is crystalline. Btw, that D13 was sold to an Asian gentleman whom already owns two other samples of that cartridge. I sold it at real market price and after all this time he never complain me nothing on what he bougth. Got it? Maybe I or you are stupid because this is the third time that I tell that you was the first of both of us that started this bs discussion and till today did not give me not even an answers over all the questions to you I posted as answer for your started post. What kind of letter in stupid you don't understand. I'm here for you but first give the answers/comments on each one of my posts to you. Btw, you are a real " kind " of person that insult in your mail to one of your Agon dearest friend ! ! , go figure ! ! and you want to achieve some credibility for your self with your posts " attacking " ( with out any success. And you never have it. ) me? Come on a kinder-garden childs could do it better. Each of your posts are a knock-out by your self post. I have to do almost nothing, good. Waiting for. R. |
Dear @lewm : I already posted why I don't use my personal PP account and don't buy through ebay with my personal ebay account. Both accounts are " alive " but not in use for those reasons. Btw, you did not pay me through my personal PP account that's what I'm talking about. Be my personal PP account is my personal email ID what appears down there. The email where you and me interchange audio information. You paid me trhough a different PP account and you can check it and it's not need it to confirm it in this thread or other one. R. |
Dear friends: Sorry but I need to stop this other stupid person that as the other speaks because it has mouth and as the other needs to achieve credibility that it does not has just attacking/hit me and as the other one with out success and never will achieve it. Here as a warning because at each thread I posted he is my " police " with ridiculous/stupid statements that are the only " things " that develops his tiny very tiny brain that even the bird ones. https://www.audiogon.com/users/rauliruegas?utf8=%E2%9C%93&feedback_filter=all and in the same way that hacked my PP account here we can read what a hacker tryed to do with my ebay account ( that I don't use either just from the PP problem. ): Lun 22/10/2018 12:35 AMUsted We need to confirm you have access to this account, Raul Please confirm your identity to access your eBay account Hi Raul, It looks like you’re having trouble signing into your account. Please select the ‘confirm’ button to verify your identity and access your account. (It’s only good for 24 hours.) If you don’t recognize this activity, please contact us. eBay is committed to your privacy. Read our user agreement and privacy notice. Learn how to recognize fake (spoof) emails. We don't check replies sent to this email. If you have questions, we want to help you find an answer. Copyright ©2018 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc., 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, CA 95125. Email reference id: [#2d67a8ce2f0d456d86a0d56670e6bb00#] ..........................................................................................................Both accounts are " alive " ( PP and ebay. ) and I can use it when I decide to do it but till today I prefer not following using my personal PP account and certainly ebay where I have several years that I don't buy through its site. When I need something I have friends and family that make the favor to me. Btw, that 2018 hacker intent was the third in my account in the last 10 years. I hope this can help with this person before I take other actions with. R. |
Dear @dimitry : " Conversing with you is very strange... " then don’t do it, you don’t need it and from my self I don’t need either more of any kind of " agressive " posts to me, your post is not seriously agressive but not friendly at all. I re-read your posts and that’s my conclusion. Do it a favor and forget of me. Who needs doing it in other way?. Be happy as I’m. I don't care about you but MUSIC and I always take care of some true Agon/internet " friends ". R. |
Dear @travbrow : It’s a NOS stylus replacement that I bougth with the same source of my cartridges and is is similar to the BB one then BB one is original with out doubt. I never mounted and as you seen comes with double Empire boxes. It’s original. I will look if I have another one to change it. But now you have a NOS from BB and how I can't be sure that the one you will return to me is the one I shipped to you. I check it before send it and cantilever was in good condition and maybe the stylus guard ( I don’t aware about. ) could be alittle loose I don’t know for sure because in all my MM cartridges I always take off the stylus guard due that its vibrations degrades the quality performance of any cartridge. Here I remember two other gentlemans that bougth from me: one an Empire D3 qand the other one of my Technics 100cMK4. The empire even that gone in its original plastic and box and a second box was damaged ( broke the inside plastic original paching ( not easy to broke it but happenned. ), the buyer did not check when he cecieved ( at the moment he cecieved ) so there is no way to claim about and after a negociation with him the " troble " solved for him. The other was up-set because did not like the VDH retipped works when the cartridge performs really fine but he just did not like that VDH works, even that second hand cartridges has no guarantee I accepted that he returned to me and solved the " trouble. But in these two events those gentlemans email me to me and was solved. Btw, why you did not ask me about when you received? ? ? As you can read my feedback here and on ebay is in pristine condition. R. |
Dear @lewm : PP has not universal rules. Here in México not only we have to give our bank account to PP for they transfer the money to our bank account and this is a " problem " not for the seller but for the buyer that ask that after they do the PP payment always ask next day if the item is already shipped and things are that for México policies PP needs to make that bank transfer that it takes between 4-5 business days for I can see the money and obviously the buyer don’t understand the delay to make the item ship. Btw, last week an Agon gentleman bougth from me an item and by a mix-up he made the PP payment to my personal PP account ( the money gone to my account, it is not blocked as the other person posted. ) but because that PP account is alive but I don’t use it I have to refuse that money to PP and solved the trouble in less than 24 hours. For me this mix-up was a nigthmere because I just not remembered my sign to login account and neither the security answers to the PP questions to verify if in reality I was the account holder to change that sign, so I have to do that calling to a gentleman in PP here in México. So PP rules are different. With this same gentleman we have other " even t ": the item was shipped to Canada by air registered mail service and he thougth that in 3 days he could recieve it but things are that the Mexico mail international service has no connection with the USA/Canada own services and the packages takes several more day/weeks to arrives. Btw, two years ago some one hacked my Agon account and started to post in forums that regulary I don’t post there, normally I post in the analog forum. Agon fixed this problem. R. |
travbrow : Did you mounted and tested that NOS stylus replacement?, if not please do it and come back to me. I never tested for in sale any NOS item. Look, here in this forum at least 3 gentlemans posted that they recieved new AT 9 LOMC cartridges with not centered cantilevers and one of those gentlemans returned and things were that the second new ( today not vintage cartridge or stylus replacement. ) AT cartridge came with the same trouble. Rigth now in other thread a gentleman started his OP because his New Ortofon 2M black arrived out of operation and when he returned and Ortofon sended a new second sample: yes, arrived with problems too. When the top of the Line Ortofon Anna ( 10K+. ) started in the market some owners reported to Ortofon that the stylus tip suddenly disappeared or the suspension collapsed. My ttop of the line LOMC Sao Win suddenly the stylus tip disappeared but if you read in one of the links I posted to halcro in the Mr. Crowder top audio system when I arrived to his place in Houston and started to listen his system thing were that his Lyra Titan ( original owner. ) mounted in his Rockport TT/LT tonearm just sounds horrible and you know what: the Lyra losted its stylus tip !. He posted in that link: read it. But more incredible was what happened to me with my AT 1000 LOMC cartridge that came with diamond cantilever and stylus manufactured as one piece and one day with no more that 100 hours on it the stylus tip disappeared. And you are blame me in public because the stylus guard is totally loose? and if you never comeback to buy nothing from me it's ok because from my part I never will put on sale ( in good shape as I did it and do always. ) nothing for you. I understand your point but that fact is not something that I did it on purpose or by accident. Please test the stylus replacement. R. |
Dear @lewm : You are rigth but as I posted here in México the goverment ask to PP that for any one that needs open a PP account is a must an account bank for the opener. The interchange and deposits in banks of foreigner coins are followed by our goverment with loupe. ( at least when I open my PP account times. ). Whashing money from drug-traffic ( cocaine and the like. ) is a sport in my country and in USA that's where the higher demands exist over the world and that's why those goverment policies that just does not exist in other countries where PP is working. R. |
@chakster : I hope that with this post I never will have again " behind me at any thread I posted or post. """ Posting again in his old MM thread when his current choise is Digital and LOMC. Still an authority for anyone here? Not for me anylonger. His opinion was valid in the beginning of this thread many years ago, the situatio is quite oppisite at the moment, sad story. """ I remember your posts in the past and from other members, especially when I stopped to post in Agon. Here some highligths of some vintage ones coming from different gentlemans including you an my self: .................................................................................................................... chackster I got this result (rouphly by eye) with 1.25g tracking force on my Technics 102c mk4. And i was WRONG (judging by eye). Now i can measure it again correctly. Before i put the needle on the record and apply any tracking force, distance between stylus tip and bottom of the cartridge body is exactly 2 mm. But when 1.25g tracking force applied my cartridge transforming to a true Low Rider with only 1 mm left between cartridge and record surface! Still great sound quality though. """ raul what’s the difference for example with Grace loaded at standard 47k ohms or at 100k ohms? """ it depends on the phono satge and the capacitance we mated it. MM cartridges " reacts " according how we loaded ( impedance/capacitance. ). There are diferent experiences, some persons like to load at 60k-70k and I read that some cartridge models performs better at 20-30K. So there are not a precise rules down there. You have to test it in your own system, in my system I prefer ( almost all the time. ) 100K but maybe in yours could be diferent. """ harold not the barrel I think 3 years ago I added to my Pioneer cartridges this MK2 that I bougth for around 300.00 and I sold it ( sis months latter. ) for the same money. Yes, is a good cartridge but nothing to die for. """ ( this is one that you chakster love but not that gentleman.) chackster My special thanks to @rauliruegas and @lewm for pointing me on 100k ohms resistors for MM phono stage. After a few evenings of playng records i can say it was a very big improvement. In case with top of the line Grace F-9F and F-9U pickups it’s like you’re listening totally different cartridges when choose 47k ohms vs. 100k ohms, the difference is huge in resolution! And that is what one 100k ohms resistor can do with the sound, wow, i’m so impressed. The experiment was made with two identical phono stages, one was transformed into 100k ohms, another remain at 47k ohms. """ chacster The Astatic mf 200 equal to Glanz mf 31L is a good one, This is only my suggestion. Since these brands are clones of each other, ........................... The Astatic mf 200 equal to Glanz mf 31L is a good one, ...... """" Where do you read or who told you that Astatic cartridges are clones of the Glanz? In my understood Astatic ( that’s a very old corporation. ) only took the Glanz patent ( moving flux. ) and that’s all about. The " clone " you name it: MF 200/ mfg 31L is a good example that those cartridges are not clones. The output level on both cartridges is different 4.2mv vs 3.5mv. Inductance 90 vs 110. VTF: 1.75grs vs 1.25 grs. Cartridge weight: 6grs vs 5.5grs. Frequency response: 10hz to 20khz vs 20hz to 20khz with a 2 db deviation in both cases and I can go on with those differences. As you can see far away to be clones. The Astatic MF 2500 was an earlier cartridge than the MF 100/200, even its inductance value is different in between and IMHO the 2500 is the best performer in the Astatic catalog and way better than the MFG 71L. I can’t talk on the 61 till I heard it. As I said Astatic is an old and experienced corporation and did not to copy/clone Glanz in the way you posted. Coil windings, materials used, coupling mechanisms and output are distinct across them. """ ( five years latter because you still can’t understand that you posted the same . ! ! ? ? ? and again a discussion for... ) raul Dear florence4/lewm: There are at least two cartridge Grace series that never been marketed out side Japan/Asia: the Level II and the 14 series ( both with more than 7 diferent models, even the 14 serie has a Disco model for DJs. ). The 14 top model appeared in 1985 with a boron cantilever and MR stylus and this is the one that could outperform the 9Ruby ( Level II has too a Ruby model. ). """ chacster, I posted that on Grace several years ago and way before you name any of those models. Fleib. *My overall impression was a very grain free and pure sound, but from what I heard I did not get an impression that these had the speed of say a Decca, Ikeda or top flight MC..* Interesting comment, or impression as the case may be. I haven’t heard the SS strain gauge. Years ago I briefly heard the Win SG and my impression was of a sound being somewhat different than what we’re used to. Transient response (speed) seemed exemplary in an accurate sort of way rather than having a big overshoot on initial attack and drawing attention to the leading edge, but this was a brief encounter. Lab test reports would go a long way to dispelling all the myths and misconceptions. Myth - Top flight MCs are faster. Faster than what, average MCs, MMs ? Designs w/o cantilever not withstanding, what exotic MC is as fast as a 205C ? I had a TK10ML2 and it was fast as lightning. What good does it do for a subjective reviewer to list equipment used in an evaluation, as a basis for comparison? Do you have the same $40K phono stage or cables with built-in filters? This thread has gone full circle, from top flight HO carts to MCs that are superior. I was unaware of this thread 6 years ago when it began. Raul showed up on VE and proclaimed MM/MI superior. We had a running debate in which I said that neither was necessarily better. Evaluations were completely subjective so it became ridiculous. The word distortion was misused a lot. Raul performed a great service to the community by reawaking to the potential of HO carts. I doubt if he will show up on this thread once again, for obvious reasons. His contribution is noted. Regards, """ frogman Raul performed a great service to the community by reawaking to the potential of HO carts. I doubt if he will show up on this thread once again, for obvious reasons. His contribution is noted.**** I know some will disagree (Raul?), and I may regret this comment a bit later after my first cup of Sumatra wakes me to reality; but, from my often overly-romantic vantage point, Raul has an obligation to show up on this thread again. I do hope he is well and that there are no extenuating reasons for his absence. Raul, donde estas? """ audpulse Fleib, Frogman, others, I totally agree the contributions of Raul. Before I discovered this thread(3 years after it’s start), there is nothing anybody can do or say to make me look at MM/MMI cartridge. I was totally sold on MC and The Absolute Sound Magazine helped to drive home my believes. I will say that in this country, I was among the first to listen to an ALLERTS cartridge and it became my benchmark cartridge though I could not afford it then but was always dreaming of owning it one day. Look at what Raul has done. For the cost of a top flight MC, I have been able to acquire at least ten MM cartridges that will hold it’s ground to an ALLERTS. Hopefully Raul will show up here again but at the moment, I will not like to see him. I have stop chasing the flavors of the month and now start enjoying some of the cartridges collected and very soon I will start thinning my collections. """ frogman As with most descriptions of the sonic attributes of gear, for a description to be meaningful and complete it must relate to the music. While I am sure square wave response is an important consideration when discussing the speed of a cartridge, I suspect that it goes beyond that and that there are other considerations when assessing wether a cartridge is "fast". The reason I say that (and I admit that my technical knowledge pales in comparison to other contributors here) is that I have looked at test graphs of gear that show very good square wave response and still the gear does not allow the music to sound correctly "alive" and with that elusive sense of being a coiled spring ready to pounce at any moment. To me "fast" means more than just good transient response during the initial attack of a note or percussive sound, but also the ability of the cartridge (or any gear) to sustain that energy from point-in-time A to point-in-time B (micro-dynamics) in order to give music it’s proper forward impetus and sense of "groove" and excitement; while at the same time unravelling the rhythmic interplay between musicians or rhythmic nuances of a solo performance. I think some do confuse leanness with this ability because some lean cartridges seem to get the leading edge of the note right; but, they can still sound rhythmically flat and uninvolving. As Lewm says "we know it when we hear it". Interesting that this should be the subject being discussed along with the subject of Raul and his absence. The very few times that I have had disagreement with Raul it has been over this very subject. It has been my impression that Raul has a very good sense of the subject of timbre and tonality in gear, but was a little late coming to the party as concerns ability of gear to correctly portray rhythm. After several debates on the subject he did take up the "correct rhythm" banner. One of the few times that I have disagreed with his assessment of a cartridge had to do with this very subject and the ATML170OCC; a cartridge with beautifully correct tonality but that to my ears sounds rhythmically uninvolving. Even his preferred Sumiko Celebration MC exhibits rhythmic politeness to my ears but with beautiful tonality. I think that very generally speaking a large part of the appeal of MM’s (for me, anyway) has had to do with their resistance to sound lean and ability to portray a sense of tonal density. Also very broadly speaking, the downside has been their more sedate and rhythmically polite qualities compared to MC’s Raul, donde estas? """ halcro Years ago I thought MCs were better than MMs, now I don’t think either one is superior. They’re different.This....👍😘 Some of my cartridges....like the Fidelity Research FR-6SE and Garrott P77 like the 100K Ohms loading with minimal Capacitance....whilst others like the Signets and ATs, prefer 40K with a bit extra Capacitance...👀 But this of course assumes that all records are cut ’FLAT’.....which is rarely the case...❓ Using Resistance and Capacitance loadings like ’Tone Controls’ from record to record (or even track to track)....can be valid and quite satisfying.... """" chak Where is Raul BTW? I miss his posts. """ You said that I return to speak of LOMC and digital and I want to explain you why is that because it’s in that way ( not that I don’t care anymore about MM because I still care about. As a fact I have some days ejoying my Empire 4000D3 ( not the gold one. ). Years ago a close Agon friend ( even that I never had the pleasure to meet him personal. ) @dgarretson gave me a wise answer to one of my post: things were that he six months ago his post ( very short time. ) was the other way around in an audio subject and I posted that why his very short time contradiction and he posted to me: " Raul I HAVE THE RIGTH TO LEARN " and he is absolutely rigth with his answer and things are ( even that you don’t like it. ) that I learned too and you attested and attest several times that I’m always willing to learn and that each day by day is time to learning. I’m not sticky to MM as you or other gentlemans. I discovered this alternative and like it very much but as I said in my OP: is an alternative and that’s all. In those times I was so exited to many emotions and good feelings in my discovery that said " stupid things answering to J.Carr when I told him that MM has inherent lower distortion levels and he said I was wrong because LOMC ones are way lower levels in that specific regards and he was and is rigth and is one of the reasons I prefer LOMC alternative: as an alternative, I want to leave this fact very clear. Obviously that you and other gentlemans just don’t learn about yet but we have to take in count that each one of us room/system quality levels performance and each one of us main targets are way different. Some of you can’t learn about because your room/system lower quality level performance and obviously different main targets. So I can’t stay sticky/inert as you. I always am looking to grow up, always. Digital? why I like today digital better than before? because today digital technology advances is a better alternative that puts me nearer to the recording as no single analog alternative can approach it. That means that I don’t like any more LPs?, no way my friend I still love the analog alternative because at the end and first than all I’M A MUSIC LOVER not hardware lover or media lover and in the other side I still own 7K LPs. You showed in all your posts that or not have enough capacity to learn or you just are not willing to do it for whatever reasons. Seller?, my dear chacster: do you know why so many persons hacked my different internet accounts? because for many many years I was a buyer that in some weeks and for the MM madness I bougth 10 or more cartridges in a one week. I own several samples of the same models not as a spare for but because I learned that many ebay/Agon and other markets sellers just does not tell the true in the cartridge operational conditions and many times I received in very bad conditions with a silent channel or collapsed suspension but I never bougth many samples of one cartridge model with the personal attitude for sale latter on: never did it and never do. Yes, I have to put on sale many cartridges that already accomplished its functions in this thread and for my listen pleasure. Way different from you. I hope you got it and with this post we don't have more differences for the same audio subjects like till today. Ok for you?, please confirm it. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |