I have a few broken MM cartridges and i wonder is it worth to rebuild them, both needs a new cantilevers. In stock condition they are superb cartridges, i still have 3 working samples in excellent condition. But i don’t know what to do with broken samples :( Talking about AT-ML150 with rare ATN170ML replacement stylus (broken cantilever) and mega rare AT-ML180 with genuine ANT180ML replacement stylus (broken cantilever). Only a little part of the original cantilever left inside (about 2-3mil). The original cantilever is Hollow Gold Plated Boron and the original stylus tip mass is extremely low (0,08mm for AT-ML180 // 0,1mm for AT-ML170 ). Has anyone tried to rebuild those cartridges? I think it must be Boron cantilever and Van Den Hul tip of the lowest mass to be close to the original.
But no one has made any of these hollow boron cantilevers since the 80's.
What would you do? |
@nandric You’re right, it’s good idea to became a retipper in the end of the day. A.J. Van Den Hul turning 80 this year! Just checked this interview with him. My Dutch instagram friend told me the price is 500 euro to rebuild with Van Den Hul throught his dealer. It is only make sense if the final product can surpass the original. There is indeed a tiny screw covered by a drop of white glue or paint on the inner side of the ATN170ML stylus replacement assembly. I remember someone told me the Audio-Technica in Japan can do the job, not sure if they can do anything with this particual model (discontinued long time ago), but they must provide re-tipping service for their clients? So maybe rebuild with original specs (or close to the original) is possible. |
when people are talking about resonance of the headshells how anyone can actually measure this resonance? |
@jtnicolosi you will be surprised by X1-II if you will come across this model with original nude shibata needle. Welcome to JVC fan club |
@tubed1 if i remember correct the ClearAudio use Audio-Technica generator in their expensive cartridges. It's been said here earlier.
As for the Boron cantilevers i doubt they are hollow pipe, most likely rod. So in terms of cantilevers those modern (all of them) are inferior to the vintage with hollow pipe boron cantilevers and ultra low mass tip. Correct me if i'm wrong. |
@nandric I can illustrate your words easily. This is a picture of my broken AT-ML170 / ATN170ML stylus recplacement. The rest of the gold plated hollow pipe material is the actual cantilever, not the collar of the cantilever, but the cantilever itself. Here is another picture of the working original cantilever. BTW i got very quick reply from Expert Stylus regarding this AT-ML170 cartridge. I was surpriced that Expert Stylus have 48 years experience in manufacturing components, including a range of cantilevers and diamonds (so maybe Don was right about Stereohedron made by Expert Stylus) ! They got over 2500 cartridges serviced every year! It really isn’t a matter of removing a cantilever and fitting a new one. The mass of the cantilever and diamond must be taken into consideration as otherwise the whole dynamics of the cartridge will be impaired. Every cartridge made is built with components of a mass ensuring optimal results, and unless those attempting repair work have the background and laboratory facilities to ensure this, then they should not be considered. The Expert Stylus company manufacture cantilevers in aluminium, boron and sapphire. Their Paratrace profile diamond is possibly the most advanced diamond produced today. This mega rare Audio-Technica AT-ML170 from the 80’s can be refurbished anytime by Expert Stylus in UK for about £290 in 3/4 weeks from receipt of confirmation. It’s quick compared to others. The exchange rate of £ to € is so low at the moment, i think this is the best option. But i will not do that, i decided to sell this cartridge :) P.S. I saw the alluminum tube ("joint pipe" you are talking about) used as a collar for solid boron rod cantilevers used by Axel, it was Nagaoka made cantilevers with glued stylus tip (he told me once). So when Axel refurbished my Technics 100c mk3, many years ago, he actually installed aluminum collar with boron rod cantilever (glued to that joint pipe). On the original Technics Boron Hollow Pipe Cantilever there is no collar (or joint pipe). I don’t have a cpiture of the EPC 100c mk3, but i do have a picture of the EPC-205c mk4 refurbished by Axel, glued stylus tip and the alluminum collar around the new nagaoka Boron Rod cantilever is visible here. For example this how the best method of mounting nude diamond throught the cantilever without big amount of glue. This is a picture of my Victor X1-IIE Titanium Hollow Pipe cantilever and nude elliptical stylus: https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089073_1335742766443887_8672099957543576034_n.jpg?oh...The old method is definitely better, but modern designers must glue the stylus tip, because the cantilever is solid rod, not the hollow pipe. I hadrly imagine someone can make a tiny hole in the solid rod cantilever, but it was possible with superior vintage hollow pipe cantilevers in the 70s/80s. |
Right, cantilevers of the AT-ML180 and AT-ML170 are Gold Plated Boron, the AT-ML150 is Beryllium, but the AT-ML140 is alluminum. I’ve never seen AT-ML160 and this number is missing the the catalog, very rare model.
Generators of the AT-ML180 is way different from any other models, the rest are the same and only stylus replacement make difference in sound. But OFC and OCC versions of generators are slightly different in sound too.
I have two perfectly working AT-ML170 and one AT-ML180 now (my favorite cartridges).
|
You ATN160ML replacement stylus assembly can be "transparent" to my AT-ML170 without surgery, it is MM replacement, lol. The problem is that replacement stylus for those models is impossible to find without cartridge, especially for the price that is lower than used cartridge+stylus! A man with stylus replacement and a man with cartridge generator can meet in the "ideal world", but in reality the generators are easy to find, but the working stylus replacements are impossible to find for this particular model. The plastic frame with working suspension designed for hollow pipe boron cantilever to fit the AT-ML170 is also not easy to find. So i decided to sell this combo to someone who can refurbish it with Expert Stylus, SoundSmith or any other service. Or for those who can do that with a donor stylus following your advice. However, it's interesting case. What to do with vintage MM cartridge if the cantilever is broken. Refurbish it to try a hybrid or to sell it, or to keep looking for the original replacement. |
Well, first the AT-ML180 is not compatible with any other styli in AT-ML series, because the generator of the AT-180 is different ellectrically from all others! For this TOTL cartridge stylus replacement must be ATN180, not the lower models. I’m fine with my working AT-ML180. Ebay is evil, along with paypal they charge at least 16% fees from the sellers, but it’s vary (they even charge vat from their fee now at the end), depends from which country you got the payment etc. In my opinion this is extremely high fee for private sellers, also as the seller everyone should accept return for full refund including shipping both way if the buyer is not happy. It’s hard to imagine any rare items for cheap on ebay, because seller must count the loss (fees). I hate ebay for this reason, the uk audio mart allow us to set lower prices and listing is fee. I can not say any good about audiogon as they charge high listing fee for unsold items. As for the prices you have to check statistics, look for foxtan prices for example, they are much higher and he’s a cheater (see feedbacks), he sold me refurbished cartridges as the originals. Well, top MM cartridges are not cheap anymore, because they are great performers and people should face it. It is not a $100 price tag anymore (like it was 10-15 years ago), but for the best vintage carts it’s more like $350-750 and for some highly collectible rare NOS vintage MM carts it’s over $1000 typically. But i must admit that the best vintage MC are still twice as much in price! Just look at the used FR-7f or Denon S1 in the bay. Well still cheaper than new $4500 ZYX I should add as argument by my single MM retip that to it make no sense to retip an MM cart which cost (me) 100 euro for 250 euro.
When people retipping MC cartridges they do spend the same amount of money to buy broken one and then the same amount to get it retipped or refurbished. What’s the difference in logic? What about those guys who always refurbishing their cheap Dl-103? Of course top and rare MM deserve refurbishing if the total amount is lower than the market price of the rare cartridge (which is normally over 700 for best models). In the beggining of this thread, many year ago, everyone was so enthusiastic about Axel’s retip or so called "refresh" of whatever cartridge (even those technics, remember). And replacement styli for rare models cost as much as the cartridge if they turns up for sale, but they never will. There are trade off with refurbishing, but some people love the result. Today we have JICO SAS Sapphire at $260 and higher. But SoundSmith Ruby with Contact Line cost the same $250. And we have more options from Expert Stylus, Van Den Hull for higher price. Why do you think it must be applied for MC carts only if we have some great MMs ? |
Thanks, i'm not a pro seller, but when i need funds for new finds i have to sell some stuff, i will try those Dutch and German sources. Paypal is ok, but i'm talking about ebay listing/sales fee they charge for sold items in the end of the month, i was shocked but they charge fee even from the shipping price! So this company sucks. The overall sales fee on ebay is 10%, but along with additional 5-6% paypal payment fee it's about 16% in total in my area at the moment. So ebay is ok for the buyer with paypal buyers protection, but for the sellers is not good with such a high fees. However, to make sure it sells the description must be very accutare to avoid buyer claim, i have to underrate my grading on ebay, so the buyer will get the item in slightly better condition than advertized (not the vise versa). The source i can recommend for averyone is UK Audio Mart or US Audio Mart (free listing), my ads there is under the same nickname as here. |
Well, i want to get back the the MC vs. MM subject, but let's talk about HIGH OUTPUT MC. Those carts does not require step-up/headamp devices and they are flexible with loading. Some of them works with MM phono stage at 47k. They can also works fine with MC (100ohm - 1000ohm) inputs, diffrerent loading is also possible. I really like some of the Hight Output MC cartridges in my system. Dynavector DV-30A, Argent MC500H and 500HS just to name a few. I do not see/hear disadvantages of the High Output (HOMC) compared to the Low Output (LOMC). And my farovite HOMC are superior compared to many top MM cartridges. Anybody else are experienced with some decent vintage HOMC carts? It would be nice to read opinions. |
@nandric thanks for your compliments I am tube lover, but my phono stages are free of tubes In theory i’m aware of the advantages of the LOmc over the HOmc. when it comes to moving coil cartridges. In reality my favorite HOMC (particualy the low compliance Argent MC with sapphire cantilever) are as good as the LOMC to my ears, i hope your beloved FR-7f and Raul’s favorite MC2000 will show me the advantages of the LOMC over the HOMC. For those carts i just scored LUXMAN AD8000 SUT base with 8030 low impedance (3 ohm, 1:30 ), silver coil on toroidal core step up transformer. We will see if i can hear my two Ikeda’s (FR) carts even better soon.
But i’m more concerned about HOMC versus MM, i find my 3 HOMC very enjoyable compared to the best MMs (which i like too) @lewm
There must be very good HOMC design among the vintage cartridges, they were quite popular.
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I read this forum since i registered in 2010, i'm curious to try my new Luxman 8020 sut with low impedance and very low output MC carts only, for the rest of the MC cartridges with slightly higher output i have headamp, and two different MC phono stages that can handle carts with 0,2mV with ease. But for the cartridges with output lover than 0,2mV (impedance of 1,5 - 3,5 Ohm) i would like to try Luxman AD800 base with 8020 sut. I hope you can google translate it, but the guy said: "I got the feeling that the sound of 8020 SUT makes famous M.A. COTTER MC transformer a little soft." I think you own Cotter trans, Nandrik? Yes, i'm aware about your Denon SUT all-rounder. This Luxman comes with 3 different plug-in toroidal silver SUTs, i have only one on mine (maybe i will find 2 others later if i ever need them). |
The original stylus of MC2000 called Symmetrical Contact Line (CLC). The moving system which comprises diamond stylus, cantilever and armature, quite natually has great influence on the cartridge’s performance capability. And it is particularly important that the mass of the system is kept at an absolute minimum. The MeFF value of the ortofon MC2000 is 0,27 mg. Aminimum value. This was achieved simply by finding the optimal cantilever lenght (6,15 mm), and utilizing the correct materials for the moving system: an extremely light and stiff aluminum cantilever of conical shape, diminutive cross-shaped aluminum armature. The legs of the cross are hollow which has allowed for a mass reduction of 66% in relationto traditional armature design. High mechanical stiffness. In addition to the mass reduction - so important for the total equivalent stylus tip mass - the use of aluminum gave an additional benefit. It was possible to prevent irritating magnetic noise (backhausen effect) and occurs when a magnetizeable material changes its magnetic state. The Damping system ortofon’s patented WRD (Wide Range Damping). The system comprises two pieces of rubber separated by a tiny platinum disc. It has been possible to incorporate a finer suspension wire and soften rubber compounds for the bearings. There refinements have permitted a compliance of 20 um/mN - the highest value for an Ortofon MC cartridge. High compliance guarantees exceptional tracking ability at low frequencies (minimum 100 um, which is a unique value for a moving coil cartridge), while the low equivalent stylus tip mass ensures tracking ability at high frequencies that surpasses all other top cartridges. Taking in count all that stated above, I’m glad that i have unused NOS MC2000 in stock condition with all documents. When you’re talking about refurbishg of this cartridge i assume retippers use different cantilever (probably boron?), because the original alluminum cantilever of the MC2000 looks very unique in its conical shape: https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21314671_1856897474328411_4826786900578504132_n.jpg?oh...BTW What is the modern equivalent of this very special ortofon’s Symmetrical Contact Line (CLC) stylus tip ? |
@pryso wow, it was indeed a "great fall" in 1991, i was a teenager, my musical source was vinyl and cassettes on my dad’s Soviet hi-fi at that time. I saw the future of my country more optimictic than i see it now. But anyway you’re all welcome @lewm @nandric, before it’s too late. This is very impressive footage of the city you can watch here St.Petersburg is unique experience, i love my hometown. |
Whan i play records with original Garrott P77 loaded at 100k and mounted on Reed 3p i always ask myself why do i need those low output MC cartridges? It's a part of the hobby, curiosity in other words... The big question with the LOMC is always the right amplification (sut or no sut and which one). I would be happy to buy container of records instead. |
@roberjerman before copy-paste something that you may not really understand by yourself, please look at the specs of the Technics EPC-100c mk4 MM cartridge, then read what cutting/mastering engineers think about coloration of the most MC cartridges. Try to find out which cartridges used to compare mastertape and vinyl disc master and why. We’re speaking about exceptional MM cartridges in this thread, they are neutrial. Forget about frequency roll off (it’s not true) with top of the line vintage MM cartridges. They all got a flat frequency response from 5Hz to 60kHz or even up to 100kHz! Don’t forget about high compliance of MM cartridges, so they are tracks better with lower tracking force.
And let me ask you a question: Do you have any good MM cartridge or good MC cartridge? "Lower noise floor with MC cartridge and SUTs" - you must be kidding???
And finally if you need low output and low inductance then look at the specs of the Stanton 980LZS MM cartridge: Output .06mV / Inductance 1.mH / DC Resistance 3. ohms. Walter Stanton believed to his dying day that NO moving coil cartridge could ever be any good.
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Digital is the only alternative that puts us nearer to the recording and is obvious the reasons why. Raul, most of my favorite music was recorded in the studio on multitrack master tape at first, then mixed by mastering engineer and cut on lathe. There is NO digital in the chain, some records are direct cut. No need to digitize analog source! Each album or single has its own story, some of them are not easy to find and this is another story about each particular find. When we pay for each record we are "selectors",
we're filling
our collection with a new records, new finds over the years. I was born in the 70s and digital never played an important role in my life when it comes to the music, i spend more time with cassette tapes and vinyl records. The CD was an awful format of digital and now digital music is free. We use enough digital in our life (computers and stuff), i wish my music to be on original records. Because digital file can’t replace the feelings, the background, the history behind each vinyl record we have. This is the way i’ve been listening music most of my life. I use low quality digital to discover more music online, but if i like some track i want it on vinyl on my recordshelfs. Despite the fat that most of my music is from the 70s era, i understand that not everything new available on vinyl, but it’s trendy to release vinyl nowadays, it’s funny, but some people release albums on limited edition compact cassetes and even on reel to reel. This is amazing how cool is the analog media even for young generation today. Digital can not replace these feelings, so i don’t care about digital even if it’s good quality. Also i don’t want a digital screen, tv, dvd or anything like that close to my analog system. Your theory just proove the fact that audiophiles are not always record collectors even if they are listening vinyl. Different strokes for different folks. |
@nandric
1. Allaerts MC2 , 2. Magic Diamond, 3. Benz LP mr, 4. Ikeda 9 TT, 5. Urushi Sky Blue, 6. FR-7fz, 7. Ikeda 9 C, 8. Transfigurtion Poenix S, 9. ZYX Airy 3, 10. Miyaby standard, 11. Kiseki Gold Spot. There is no other place where I can ''show off'' with my riches then in this forum with the same kind of addicts (grin). The rest of the human kind thinks that one cart is sufficient.
One from this list will be enough for me, the Miyabi Standard |
@roberjerman For many years I used the Ikeda-san designed Fidelity Research FR1mk3F mc along with the Mitchell Cotter Verion P transformer. Silver coils and line-contact stylus. Superb sound and no desire to change! I have never heard a MM equal this level of sound quality. I stand by my previous assertion that a MC cartridge and transformer offers the best quality of LP playback! I also have Fidelity-Research PMC-3 (recommended by Jonathan Carr of Lyra) and one of the best headamp made by Nakatsuka San (ZYX), my Luxman 8030 silver SUT on its way to try later with FR-7f purchased this year. Not to mention my experience very expensive modern LOMC cartridges in the past. I got massive collection of vintage MM cartridges and i can say that MC are not better, espesially for those of us who are not willing to pay many thousands dollars for MC + SUT to find out later that $300-700 MM cartridge from the late 70s or early 80s still outperfom it. I’m still trying to find the MC cartridge that can compete with my TOTL moving coils, i won’t give up, we will see when i will try Ortofon MC2000. |
@nandric
I see that you also prefer to be on your own in your search for Eldorado. Neither of your ''stuff'' is ever recommended in this forum as far as I know. Complaining then about the fact that nobody else owns ''your stuff'' is, well, very curious (grin).
Yes and No First i have no idea why do you think I'm complaining about anything? I have tried so many cartridges recommended in this forum to make my own conclusion what is good or bad. I strongly disagree with many "contributors" about "some cartridges of the month" posted here long time ago, but at least i owned them. I'm not sure how many people are still hunting for vintage cartridges, but most contributors left this forum 5 year ago or so, including people you're always talking about. Maybe they are all retired and listening to digital like Raul now. Have you discovered any "new" cartridge recently? I got many new discoveries like unknown "Grace F-14 Exellent" for example. Nobody owns it? Why should i bother? People don't know it even exists. |
well, it was not a joke actually, in the end of 256 page of this wonderful thread we lost 97% of the contributors and the author of the thread turned digital. It’s a nighmare, but i hope it’s no the end.
BTW if someone will wake me up in the middle of the night and ask which MC cartridges Nandric has and who recomended them to him i can recall all of them, because he keep repeating them all in every 3 posts :) I even bought some of them. |
@harold-not-the-barrel Raul, again about your sold Dynavector Karat Nova 13D... was it really the large wooden body or was it a "weaker" sample. Additionally, how would you compare it against the Dynavector Karat 17D(s) ? The Karat carts are very special designs, I´m interested in purchasing...
Let me add my 50 cent... Predecessor of the Karat and Karat Nova was Dynavector DV-30C with AIR-COIL (also headshell integrated design) with straight Boron cantilever and German Parabolic nude stylus tip. It was LOMC (0.18mV) with the same frequency response as the Karat Nova 13D. The Dynavector DV-30C was the ultimate state of the art cartridge. The combination of the poly acetal non-ferrous armature and the above mentioned cantilever and stylus assembly gives the DV-30c the previously inconceivable sound quality. Dynavector 30 series cartridges feature the very attractive headshell integrated as one piece. The headshell was designed for the ease of fixing to almost all conventional sme type tonearms in addition to careful treatment of multi resonance problems in the headshell. The effective length and the azimuth angle of the cartridge can be adjusted +/- 3mm and +/- 5 degrees. Dynavector DV-505 bi-axis, inertia controlled, dynamic balance type tonearm is recommended by the manufacturer. This low output DV-30c must be extremely rare as i have never seen one over the years, but i saw at least 5 samples of Karat 13D/17D this year. As i said earlier i have only HOMC version of this DV-30 series. I was very impressed by the sound of my DV-30A from 1978-1981. Here is another fresh picture (taken yesterday) of alluminum cantilever and Shibata Type III stylus of my DV30a: https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22365609_1902924109725747_622425272253141477_n.jpg?oh=... But it’s High Output MC (1.8mV). The secret lies in the micro proportions of the coil. A coil frame of mere 1,8mm square contains over 400 turns of ultra-thin 11-micron meter wire wound at 90 degrees to one other. The micron precision gives the high output type MC cartridges an output voltage of 1,8mV. I think the uber rare LOMC version of DV-30 must be better with its Boron cantilever and Paroc diamong, it must be close to Karat Nova if you will look at the specs. I think i already posted Van Den Hul's summary regarding DV-30 series earlier in this thread (he has retipped some of them). |
Oh, yes. If you know Victor aka "grgaudio" then you may noticed that his "70 hrs of use" or normally "200 hrs of use" along with info like "i got it from japanese reviewer" has nothing to do with reality as he stated the same for all his cartridges and seems like all those japanese sellers on yahoo are the reviewers, it’s pretty funny. I didn’t noticed he sold one, anyway, some of the carts (gladly not all) purchaced from him collapsed in the next hours much faster that buyer can expect. And after inspection at much more trustworthly SoundSmith we get the conclusion that the stylus is worn out, so the stated 200hrs was a myth. It’s a real story about Sony XL55 cart purchaced by me for my flatmate several years ago from grgaudio. No response from him since that day even when i bought another good cartrige from one of his "secret account" on ebay and tried to communicate, very strange. When the price is too low, and the deal is not on ebay, we must think twice. The last one re-tipped by Van Den Hul was 1600 euro on good Italian source, but it was HOMC version 30B, not even the LOMC 30C |
@rauliruegas
Yeras ago I explain it in wide way and I don't have the time to get back again.The JVC X-1 MK2 is different and at the front of the stylus holder statest is for 4-channels, even the stylus holder is different and larger than the normal one.You don't own the JVC X-1 MK2, sorry. Enough.
Finally i can spread the light on that 4 Channel stylus you have mentioned. Now everyone can look at this picture to make sure that cantilever is different from the serial model, because it's much thicker in diameter and there is no tension wire on the tail (different from the serial models for X-1, X-2 and X-1II with X-1IIe). BTW on this picture someone trying to put together non compatible stylus and generator. The stylus is for X-1II (X-2) series and the (big) size of the clear plastic is similar to X-1II replacement combo, but the generator is just regular JVC X-1 (aka Victor X-1). The most interesting is the 4 Channel stylus/cantilever which is unique, i think it is not a serial model, but just a sample. And you have (had) the same sample, but with the right generator? Now we see what's the difference, but since the cartridge designed strictly for 4 Channels records i'm not sure it is better for 2 Channel (Stereo) records. Maybe this is the reason why JVC Victor serial models are different, they are made for normal Stereo records. |
@downunder it was available for at least 2 years from this seller on various sources in the internet. The price is high. The more important is the condition of the damper, most likely it must be dead (low rider), do you have it? |
This is the same seller who has a bunch of Glanz cartridges, some dead stock. He also offering repair service for Victor X1 suspension. Make sure to check it's the original. I've been watching this technics stylus for about 2-3 years from this seller on various sources, i don't think he's got only one! If he has a bunch of them then the price is high imo. I hope you will get what you paid for. Please report back when you got it. |
@rauliruegas actually when i managed to get perfect 205c mk4 in mint condition the suspension was not perfect, that’s what we call Lowriders. People can live with them, but i sold mine for that reason. The stylus is tall, so even when the cartridge is almost lay down on the record surface there is a tiny distance between cartridge and record just because of the size of the diamond. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMImN1rWkAAtqx0.jpg:largeLowriders are not for everyone. As we discussed with Nandrik 10 000 times, no one can fix it without exchange of the cantilever and damper: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMIq61hXUAA_9hF.jpg:large Foxtan sold me 100c mk3 and when i told him it’s a lowrider he asked me to ship it back to him to fix the damper (just the damper), half year later he returned me the cartridge as an original with "fixed damper", thanks jpjones who poited me it’s not the original. But funny, when i shipped that sample to Axel for inspection he recognized his own refurbishing work he did for the seller who cheated me. Axel told me he replaced the whole cantilever. Crazy world. I don’t really understand (still) how Van Den Hul can "refresh" those 100c mk4 suspension/damper without changing the cantilever? |
Oh, that's what we call re-tip, but "refresh" in Raul's
terminology
means something different. I always thought it's something with suspension. |
@nandric What kind of ’’Slavic brother’’ are you when you obviously have no idea that all Serbians family names end with ’’ic’’?
Oh, forgive me, but when it comes to vodka you should know correct brand name " Stolichnaya " if you prefer late 70’s flavour. I prefer white wine. Well, when the stylus is too long, like on those old technics, it’s the only thing that does not allow the cartridge metal part to fall down on the vinyl surface. But that’s the worst case of course. I think your Ikeda cart without cantilever is pretty similar to the low riders. |
I can't remember anyone praised V15 in this thread, but i remember the statement that Clearaudio use the Audio-Technica generator in their MM cartridges. My first switch from MM/MI to LOMC was very impressive until i discovered many more MM cartridges (some very best vintage MM from this thread). Then everything became much more difficult. But the MM cartridges are definitely much |
Not sure "what's the best", Harold, i think it can be the best of the month only :) But i like Joseph Grado Signature TXZ (MI) model. Those Decca are the uglies in my chart, but i never owned any of them and i don't think i have tonearm for them. |
Mr. Peter Ledermann of the SoundSmith could post in our thread too, i just realized he's not a fan of MC cartridges at all (serviced many thousands of them). In the middle of this video he explain the advantages of MI cartridges over MC. And Strain Gauge over any of them. Very interesting lecture. I also noticed that he hate conical styli :) |
Unfortunately J.Carr's statement is outdated on this forum, but the Ledermann's statement is dated October 2017 and he speak about MI (not MM). It worth to watch just to see Peter and to check some technical data he's talking about. |
I'm just collect the arguments, i do not take anyone's opinion too seriously. Jonathan Carr did not find any advantages in Raul's long time favorite 100c mk4, but he has mentioned Victor L-1000 MC as very unique design with tiny printed coil right above the stylus, i think Decca MI can be in this category too for its design. SoundSmith video is interesting, how about those 5k MC with very poor channel separation he has mentioned in the video? He even mentioned distortion that MC owners like so much. The stupidity of using conical tip. Strain Gauge cartridge (originally developed by Panasonic) if you want to talk about unique design. And cacti growed by his friend
Frank Schröder |
Right, but Ledermann also fix cartridges for other people like the hardest working man in this business, so i believe his experience is great and he knows the weakness of the carts (of any type) very well. |
@pryso
Cacti styli may now be unusual, but they are not"unique".
Am i said they are unique? No. But we know that Miyajima use Bamboo cantilever. |
@nandric
Mother Teresa was even more helpfull but , if I am right she was catholic while the Russians are Greek orthodox.
Please remember that i do not belong to this small group of religious people and all that stereotypes about my country you are using in every 3rd post in your metaphors (vodka, lada, rich people, orthodox, you are only forgot bears on the streets, snow, matreshka and balalayka). |
@rauliruegas
Now, when I read and listen for the first time to the SS Strain gauge I did not know that its design just was made it with out conforming the RIAA standards. Latter on and reading the SS site I learned that critical RIAA subject with that Strain gauge system and I knew it because in their site they showed a chart/diagram where every one can observe that the SS cartridge was designed with out that RIAA eq. in mind. PL arguments many things about trying to compensates for that " mistake ". Through my posts in two different SS Strain Gauge threads he posted that he never be again to accept any cartridge re-tipping to my cartridges ( I was a customer from him with 4-5 of my cartridges in the past. ). Btw, sooner after those threads he deleted the link in his site that showed the differences between the SS curve and the RIAA curve.
That's interesting story. Good to know. |
Finished my heavyweight custom racks for two Luxman PD-444. Now it looks like a battle between a turntable with MM carts and a turntable with MC carts. This is what i use to test rare vintage high-end cartridges to find out what i like the most in my own system. In my current setup on the left turntable i have signature Stanton SC-100 W.O.S. MM cartridge (on Lux TA-1 tonearm) and Audio-Technica AT-ML180 OCC (on Victor UA-7045 tonearm). On the right turntable i got the SPU Royal G MK2 MC (on Lustre GST-801 arm) and Ortofon MC2000 (on Sony PUA-7 arm). The rack in the middle is for amp, preamps, sut, headamp. All racks are my own design. Everything goes to super high efficiency Zu Audio Druid full range speakers. @invictus005 I would recommend Victor UA-7045, not only because it’s much cheaper than Micro, but also because this is amazing tonearm. Now when i have Technics EPA-100mk2 i can sell my spare Victor UA-7045, but i still use another 7045 as you can see. |
@nandric
I am not sure if Russian Federation has ''snake wood'' so the question is why chakster used simple wood for his racks?
Where do you see wood in my racks? Too much snake oil? I was inspired by those metal racks for studio broadcast turntables. So my racks are actually made of metal, pretty heavy, one of them has 3mm thickness of the wall. Metal is cheaper than wood in my area, maybe in Asia i could made a wooden racks for the price i paid for my metal racks. Actually i like metal, this is how it looks before powder coating. P.S. the rack for the amps in the middle i made in 1999 and just refreshed in 2017. |
@rauliruegas haha, i know how much you like tubes, i don't mind to try First Watt if i will ever find them used for reasonable price, but they are so heavy to ship like the ancors. The modern tubes sounds like sh***t, but i was pretty serious about the choice of vintage low microphonic, extremely low noise military NOS tubes from the 60s or early 70s (Telefunken, Sylvania, Matsushita ... ) |
@rauliruegas i hear ya I sold my Dynaudio SUB-300 long time ago, i just don't want to bother my good neighbours with extremely deep bass.
Zu Audio Druid 10-incher promises to do sufficient 40Hz bass to not require a subwoofer, i'm fine with it now. As for the amps i will definitely try something else, this is a part of the hobby, i think i have plenty of time, but at the moment i love the tubes.
I wish a Happy New Year to all our members!
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But why moderators does not removed all those everyday questions regarding DIGITAL whatever in the analog section of the forum? I hope today everything will be removed, we will see. |
@lewm Chakster, I own a U7045, as well. I am told that it has a low effective mass and is a good match for high compliance cartridges. Is that how you use it? My sample has a decided sag at the rear, due to a worn rubber bushing that supports the CW. I need to replace it some time. My AT-ML180 OCC on Grace Cabron Fibre HS-6 Headshell is what i use right now on Victor UA-7045 arm. It was not easy to find two samples of this amazing vintage toneam without problems with that rubber part that support the counterweight, but i got them. If the counterwight is fine then it’s definitely "best buy" option among the vintage tonearms, people just don’t understand how good it is compared to the current price for this uderrated tonearm, it’s a bargain under $700 in perfect condition! Victor own cartridges are not the highest in compliance (like the AT-Ml180), so it’s perfect match. I’m gonna use Grace F-14 on this arm as well, because the only lighter toneam that i have is Luxman TA-1 with removable armwand and huge stabilizer under the tonearm base (all made by Micro Seiki). I think it was the answer to Black Widow, but much better. I will not get into yet another argument with Raul about "tubes", but I do have an interest in and admiration for the First Watt series of ss amplifiers. I would love to hear one. I think Nelson Pass is one of the great designers. Exactly, but which one? There are many. I’m looking for a used and the smallest First Watt (i only need about 8-15w power for my 101db speakers by Zu Audio). |
@rauliruegas well, low power amps are normally cheaper and doesn't weight like the navy ancour to ship. First Watt and Nelson Pass products are well known for the quality performance, also my speakers manufacturer often used First Watt to demonstrate the Zu Audio speakers on their shows. I definitely don't need high power amp, even with 8watt tube amp the volume control is on 12 o'clock maximum with 101db (16 Ohm) speakers. It make sense to look for the amp designed for super high efficiency speakers. Prices on the used market is not so high here (he doesn't ship internationally). Reno HiFi sells new, demo/used units, but still expensive. Anyway, i'm just trying to figure out which model, each of his amp is unique design, they are all different from each other. @lewm i saw a few Victor 7045 toneams with replaced rubber bushing, but i have no idea who did the job. The compliance of the AT-ML180 is lower than 20cu, the weight with Grace HS-6 headshell is 18.6g (the headshell alone is about 10-11g) |
@rauliruegas
Dear friends: This could be interesting for some of us:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=83409
That thread is not very informative to be honest. I have some more rare Grace cartridges in my collection, i will report back then i will check them out. No need to talk more about F8 or F9 models, everybody have them, but the upper models in the line are my main interest. |
It's nice that Concorde available with FineLine stylus. I've been using all concorde models for professional needs in 2002-2007 while i've been able to get access to dealer prices as my friend was a distributor in Lithuania. When i discovered Grado professional models based on grado Black in 2007 i've never looked back to concorde muddy sound. I remember when i started my search for ortofom MC 2000 few years ago, i discovered Concorde MC 200 model which i've never seen before (0.09mV output). Micro Coil technology, LOMC with removable FineLine stylus (like those SONY MC1 and related). I've never owned this model. Has anyone tried this ? Regarding the new model: "Concorde has undergone continual re-modelling ever since as it has evolved from its original purpose as a domestic hi-fi pick up to its now revered status as a cartridge for club DJs. The Concorde performs well, is remarkably robust and, most importantly, resolutely stays in the groove." In my opinion all those Concorde MM cartridges are terrible in terms of sound, the goal is trackability for professional use, nothing more. Spherical or Elliptical styli only, no options. They are overpriced, but popular on professional market, so many models, but all sucks. However, i think they are best sellers for Ortofon on mass market. At the same time even Grado DJ100i (based on Grado Black) simply kills it. I hope the Anniversay model is totally different, at least much better stylus. |
@cleeds
That's interesting. Will you please explain @chakster the nature of your "professional needs?" broadcasing, radioshows, event management, djing ... since 1996 i used to run a small record shop in 1998-2000, we've been selling technics turntables and ortofon cartridges back in the days. vintage vinyl is my passion for much longer than high-end audio equipment |
The disadvantages of the Concorde style cartridges is that no one can adjust them, twist them etc according to the different protractors and different tonearms without changing the pivot to spinde distande of the arm. There is no overhang settings. It is not for every tonearm, even if the mass of the arm is ok. |