I’m now using wyred 4 sound mono blocks, and they’re just okay. They don’t add anything untoward, but don’t have much in the way of punch or bass kick I like to hear. These are Ice powered Class-D’s also, you stated below they were bright also, what speakers do you own, maybe that new GaN Technics SU-G30 could be good with them? Anyone with opinions on Wyred4sound’s monoblocks? I recently bought three, and they sound bright without much bass. Anyone? Here is the Technics SU-G30 review.
The musical reproduction offered by the Technics SU-G30 was among the best sound of any amplifier I have ever reviewed. Technics has a short preamble in the manual that hypes the great sound of this amplifier and I agree with their marketing-driven assessment. It is ironic that the better digital gets, the closer it sounds to analog. Tubelike even. And at some point, digital can have the best qualities of digital and analog at the same time. This is how I view the audio prowess of the Technics SU-G30 – it is like analog, super clean analog at that. My generalized listening impressions involved excellent purity of tone, a huge soundstage, amazing detail retrieval along with surprising excellence on streaming services.
Cheers George |
But right now we have 600 watt a channel mosfet class D dual mono amps that sound great for a mere $2000 (yours truly coming very soon).
Now that's an ad to promote ones own goods, and the rest of the post trying to put others off getting or waiting for Class-D with GaN technology, and to purchase their's instead. Isn't that called shilling/canvassing or is there another word for it? Cheers George |
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How long is it likely to be before GaN is in mid priced gear?
That Technics SU-G30 which is a server as well as an integrated is the cheapest so far at $3900, but it's only 50w into 8ohm and 100 into 4ohm so not for everyone. So if that was a poweramp only, you would have to say high 2's. As I said I did contact EPC to find what and who are bringing them out, seems there are several more brands on top of what we now know. Cheers George |
I hope their use continues to trickle down to even more affordable amps as George predicted (good call). It seems they rather quickly went from only being used in the $50K Technics to these new AGD monos at $15K/pair. Still too steep for me but I can wait.. Yes EPC (who are the GaN developers) are looking for it to be used also in portable devices, if so that will cause a quite a
kerfuffle also. Looking forward to how all this progresses Cheers George |
mountainsong
Technics SU-G30 really amazing.
Great find. GaN technology for $4k, and this Technics SU-G30 is also a complete network integrated amplifier. Seems like it doesn’t use the 1.5mhz higher switching frequency that the $20k Technics SE-R1 uses, but does use a hybrid power supply, not all smp, and by just using the GaN technology it’s probably front of all it’s competitors anyway. https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1837138-technics-sug30-network-amplifier.jpg
What one reviewer thought The musical reproduction offered by the Technics SU-G30 was among the best sound of any amplifier I have ever reviewed. Technics has a short preamble in the manual that hypes the great sound of this amplifier and I agree with their marketing-driven assessment. It is ironic that the better digital gets, the closer it sounds to analog. Tubelike even. And at some point, digital can have the best qualities of digital and analog at the same time. This is how I view the audio prowess of the Technics SU-G30 – it is like analog, super clean analog at that. My generalized listening impressions involved excellent purity of tone, a huge soundstage, amazing detail retrieval along with surprising excellence on streaming services.
Cheers George |
One day maybe, when the price (not looks) of the performance of the SE-R1 comes down to the the price or lower of the SU-G30.
GaN technology seems to be lit, just needs more semi conductor manufactures like Motorola, AD, Texas, ect ect. to purchase patent rights to make them from EPC (GaN)
That’s how they (Lidow and co.) did it when they sold the rights to the power mosfet all those years ago, and if you remember the same scenario is going on here. Initial price of amps using them were very high then they crashed because so many manufacturers bought the rights to make them.
BTW looking at the heatsinks in the SU-G30 above, that section is the GaN amp, it may have higher than todays 600khz switching because it’s using these heatsinks, as EPC said to me if left at 600khz there is no need for any heat sinking on any of the GaN boards, so it maybe higher. Could be a great sounding little amp, I can think maybe Quad ESL57’s would be nice as they can’t take to much wattage, or any > 90db speakers
Cheers George
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I’ll consider your response promising. Like I said before, when this GaN technology becomes more affordable, and looking that this latest stuff coming out it’s not too far off. Those that were negative towards all the pro’s it had to offer from owners of the current hamstrung Class-D’s, those owners will be the first ones sell their older technology ones to purchase the newer GaN Class-D’s. As they will not want to be stuck with them, as they’ll be unsellable for a reasonable price. It could be compared to when silicon transistor amps came out, the older germanium transistor amps couldn’t even be given away. Cheers George |
No interest in listening but happy to pass along unsubstantiated fact by way of heresay " From what I have heard" last time I checked, that meant he heard them. And even if it "was" hearsay, I would Google if I were you, as many have said it. And I just noticed below, he owns Anthem Statement monoblocks, Class-D’s so "troll your self steve" |
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they are the real deal in rendering an authentic 3D soundstage of the correct timbre pace and dynamics. I believe it, it has the GaN technology. Probably could have been below $10k if he didn’t use that marketing "tube thing", may have been even better sounding without tube pins in the signal path. Bet there’s a cheaper MkII without the tube thing soon. Even he said "Company founder Alberto Guerra admitted that he did it largely for the sake of visual aesthetics. “Otherwise a class-D amp just looks like a box,” he said. The amp uses gallium nitride MOSFET output transistors, which Guerra says switch faster and allow the amp to have a noise floor in the -120 to -130dB range. Power is rated at 200W into 4 ohms." |
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You just don’t want people to like Class D. Really!!!! I’m pushing Class-D with this newer technology, because the old technology that’s basically been the same since it started (save for some input detours) is flawed. Reason why all detractors ALWAYS find the mid/highs are not right. You are the one every time I bring it up that is putting **** on this new GaN technology, possibly maybe hoping it won’t advance every time I’ve talked about it, what is it, do you have monitory interest in present day Class-D, because you sure do push the old, never the new. I want it to advance so the mids and highs get the same respect the bass has, then I’ll get 2 pairs to take the place of my inefficient boat anchors. We now have GaN users Merrill, Technics and
AGD Production.
And as GaN in an email said
" We are unable to reveal due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) with our customers.
But I can assure you that there are several customers globally, developing with eGaN FETs for Audio applications, primarily due to the benefits it offers."
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/agd-production-vivace-gantube-monoblock-ampli...
Cheers George |
Damn George, for some one who doesn’t like Class D Damn yourself sunshine. I’ve always said it’s the future and has always had better bass, just needed something like these GaN transistors to cure it’s ill’s in the upper mids and highs, which it’s always had from day one and never changed. Just went off on different tangents but never got down to the root of the problems, too much dead time and too low switching frequency with output filter effect getting down into the audio band, and these GaN’s address all these ill’s. |
Knowing Ralph, he is going to surprise us all. Maybe, if he’s got the new GaN technology Like Merrill Audio has, and he's keeping it quiet till it’s released, you never know. https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1682049Cheers George |
I love my tubes and SS amps, but if I could get something similar that runs cool and cheap, heck, I am all for it.
Bob
+1 for that Bob "similar or better". Cheers George |
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As far as warm up is concerned,
other than Bourbon has taken over and everything in the room is just better.
+1 and more!! Amps are adjusted and calibrated at the factory for peak performance after a short 1/2-1hr warm when they've reached operating temperature, even tubes, to say they sound better after hours and hours is a furphy. Yes electrolytic capacitors like to be formed/polarized with a little time from new, this again is only a short time, and not every time it's turned on. Cheers George |
I have heard the ML NO.53 a couple of times,
So have I, and the problems in the upper mids and tops while a bit different are there, they are also in similar way in all other class-D's I've heard. I have not heard the Technics SE-R1 nor the Merrill Element 118, but the mids/highs areas of concern with Class-D that many hear, seem to be the areas they say they have addressed, which makes me very hopeful they are leading the way, to make Class-D hiend. |
Class D has come a long way compared to a few years ago No it hasn’t! Mark Levinson had a good expensive dig and tried to cure it’s evils, with the $50kusd !!! No.53 monoblocks, which had massive series output filters to rid the switching frequency from it’s outputs, but they them selves bought a different set of problem to the table compared to all the filters others manufacturers use. https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no53-reference-monoblock-power-amplifier-specifica...https://www.stereophile.com/images/1212levin.side.jpgAgain even with these, it’s the mid/tops that had ? on them, but as per usual with Class-D the bass was great. " They resolved a remarkable amount of genuine detail but were harmonically threadbare, sounded somewhat hard and mechanical on top, and had a hazy overlay just below that. The bass was fast, lean, taut, and well damped—rhythm’n’pacing were among the No.53’s strongest suits.
But overall, the nature of the sound induced listening fatigue. I rarely listened for more than an hour at a time, which for me is unusual."
The only "real" advancement of Class-D has been the introduction of the new GaN transistor which Technics introduced in to their SE-R1 and Merrill Audio is now doing with their Element 118, these promise to lower dead time and have a greater far reduction of the switching frequency with the filter without affecting the audio band. Cheers George |
is a bit harsh and uncalled for.
Really Bob, I've acknowledged his prowess with OTL's, but let see if the Class-D modules are his ground up design or someone else's aftermarket ones, with "signature tweaks".
To the contrary, his amps are quite stable for a wide range of speakers.
And you are talking about the OTL's they are very speaker specific, unless you throw a ban-daid "autoformer" fix on them, then that gives them a few more they can drive, but your better off getting an amp that can do the job properly in that case. Cheers George |
The use of GaN semiconductors in class D amps, currently have not been established as providing definitively superior sound quality to the technology and semiconductors employed in the better class D amps available on the market today (typically Field Effect Transistors referred to as FETs). The GaN btw is a developed by the same guys that gave us the Power-Fet all those years ago, they sold the rights to it to the world. Once the GaN of their’s becomes affordable (with mass production), so that Putzy can get them, I guarantee you he will use use them. If your spend your money now on the present technology you may have an unsellable amp when the GaN technology takes off. I definitely don’t think there’s a need to wait for GaN semiconductor technology to ’trickle down’. As I believe you’ve already discovered, good class D performs exceptionally well. But it still does not compete with the best linear amps. Hypex NCore Bruno Putzeys, have publicly stated there’s no need for increasing the switching frequencies above current levels. Of course he does because he can't go any higher "yet", and there’s never any mention from him or you (not that that matters) of the output filter (that is the real problem) that has to rid the switching frequency from the audio band and the effects it has on the sound, right down to 3-5khz. I am waiting for Ralph Karsten to finish his Class D amp. If anyone can build a great amp, it’s him. He makes great tube OTL’s for a small sector that use speakers they are suited to. The Class-D is just going to be a money spinner for him, he buys the modules does a small mod so it can be said to be better, throws in in a box, and there’s his beer money. |
singintheblues
Which company is producing the best sounding Class D?
The only Class-D's so far that to use the more advanced GaN semiconductors for superior dead time and higher switching frequency that will give better sound. Are the Technics SE-R1 and the other is in your list, the Merrill Audio Element 118 monoblocks. It won't be long for this technology to filter down to more affordable Class-D amps so be patient. Cheers George |
