Wilsynet is correct, of course. The comments I made on the Jolida were meant to illuminate for you where it COULD go -- in time -- with a high VALUE [hint] upgrade strategy -- consideration of which should be a significant part of your thinking UP FRONT. That's how you decide the Jolida is worth it. You need to see the big picture, and it seems you're having trouble seeing much beyond price; which is NOT the same thing as value: See Oscar Wilde on this subject (though I know you won't). ALL such "entry level" devices, as some call them, rightly or wrongly, are built to a price point for perfectly understandable reasons. And guess what, so are the $3000 pieces. You'll NEVER get past this at retail (probably) unless you win the Lotto, or marry Paul McCartney. Then you can buy a Dartzeel after the divorce. Becoming a U.S. Senator shilling for Exxon-Mobil, Big Pharma, and Tobacco death-dealers seems to be out, since you're Canadian. Too bad, that seems to pay off in HOUSES.
But here you seem to be fighting to defend your own biases without having sufficient knowledge or understanding to justify so much unease. Take it easy. People here are trying to show you where the highest value-for-money choices can be found, given your stated objectives and your equipment in place. And BTW, keeping a budget (you're truly serious about) in mind is, in some respects, admirable; but I infer that yours may be too arbitrary. Unfortunately, the world rarely cooperates in offering up the true "best buys" to arbitrary price points. You seem to have this backwards: you have to first figure out where the sweet spots are price-wise (new OR used), and THEN determine your exact budget in accordance with sensible objectives. But you are having a real problem here with "advice". Your latest (local?) "expert"? Please LISTEN: Forget THAT guy, too! Please reread previous commentary until it starts to sink in. Opinions differ, yes, but somehow you've got to figure out how to separate worthwhile opinion from the Yadayadayada. Please reread all the previous posts, INCLUDING PLEASE the other post of mine I pointed you to: WHY are you coming back with pretty much the same question without even having bothered to read the answers you have ALREADY BEEN GIVEN? Didn't have three minutes? C'mon now, you are spinning your wheels!
You'll have to decide what you can do to manage your cash flow most productively in the short term. But frankly, I just don't believe this budget thing has to lead you to short-change yourself where IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE, possibly a large enough one that it could rearrange your whole perspective on what this music thing means to you and your family. E.g., I pay $10/month (or a LITTLE more IF I feel like it) for cell phone service: what do you pay? I ride the bus downtown to the library quite often -- it's amazing to sit there and see/hear the cell phone contracts in action among the bus-only-option crowd. And I have YET to overhear one meaningful conversation. Answering machines cost fifteen bucks.
This is a tale about priorities: unless your family is statistically pretty unusual, all kinds of cash gets frittered away here or there on all kinds of, objectively-speaking, ultimately unnecessary stuff. You are making a mistake if you cheap out below the PERFORMANCE level of that Jolida -- I can't be more blunt. Although, that's not to say something won't turn up on this site which could meet or exceed that level of performance for a bit less. Note, too, the Brio -- you COULD resell one of those you pick up here, when the time comes... and not lose much. Buy a new basic low end whatzitbox JUST for phono, your're gonna get hit down the road. Who here is going to want that thing used with all the substantially better performing options on offer to the vigilant? eBay? Good luck. My frank opinion. It's a live and learn thing... been at this, off and on, 47+ years (Roll your eyes, if you must)... And I reiterate, I gave you MY two (more alternative) options elsewhere. Failing to get a truly representative audition of the Jolida, I would (personally) go there first if price is that much of a concern. You asked... there's your answer from this quarter.
In addition and FYI, nobody has to be pulling high-profit bucks out of your pocket [High profit -- bottom line -- is much harder to achieve in so-called high end audio than you seem to think] for you to achieve what I suggested. The cheapest options are almost NEVER the highest value ones; nor do they tend to retain much value. The same can be said, not surprisingly, about most top-of-range offerings in many (most?) manufacturers' lines. In fact, it is often the case that the step-up model is, in fact, a step-DOWN in absolute terms. People on this site know what I'm talking about. And that doesn't necessarily mean someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Often, makers and distributors themselves fail to appreciate what (in some important respects) is the best of their own lines; or are just responding to what the [often not so shrewd] "market" wants. What else is new? So cool off your suspicions a bit.
Also, direct yourself toward quality music (there are many kinds), and away from the c**p the corporations that own the airwaves and the junk media want you to buy into reflexively. This will change the way you look at investing in a system.
SOME NOTES:
1.No, it DOESN'T suck because you've "only" got $400 -- that's life, that's where you are now. Come to better terms with it. You'll be happier, and probably live longer.
2.If you end up liking either of the DIY options you apparently didn't 'get to'(one of which is practically DONE for you already -- less picking up two tubes -- and costs $249!), there are plenty of people around who can help you, if you need that -- Min, at Tube Audio Lab; Tom McNally, to name two. Oh, and Abraxas Audio's another.
3.If you reconsider your situation more substantially and need to hunker down and save up for awhile, eBay is full of pretty nice $100 integrated amps with O.K. phono stages. I won a pristine Sansui AU-7500 recently, to give you an example -- in their best "McIntosh of Japan" regalia -- for $101 plus less than $20 shipping. And this is a piece people do want -- sometimes people are snoozing... Others here have done the same. If you will just put in the time and work at it, you can quickly find a nice, clean Kenwood KA-8100, something like that, for maybe just a little more money. You WILL probably need a refreshed power supply (major caps -- not a huge deal), though you can find such amps already serviced. Yes, there is some risk. No free lunches, remember? So buy something clean and nice someone else would want. Move up when you can. If you do refurb such an amp (one well-chosen), you may be able to resell it here when you are ready, or on one of the "vintage audio" forums elsewhere, for a better than typical eBay price. Note, too, that full-blown receivers often sell on eBay for less than the equivalent amps, ESPECIALLY when it comes to tube units [my Pilot 602, e.g.].
4. Want more opinions? Fine. But you're already slightly frazzled, so please get them in some orderly fashion [here]: you're not doing so hot with your "experts". All you've gotten there are some half-baked generalizations and a dose of confusion.
5. There are TWO other threads up right now, basically asking the same thing you are. Read 'em?
Good night, and good luck.
But here you seem to be fighting to defend your own biases without having sufficient knowledge or understanding to justify so much unease. Take it easy. People here are trying to show you where the highest value-for-money choices can be found, given your stated objectives and your equipment in place. And BTW, keeping a budget (you're truly serious about) in mind is, in some respects, admirable; but I infer that yours may be too arbitrary. Unfortunately, the world rarely cooperates in offering up the true "best buys" to arbitrary price points. You seem to have this backwards: you have to first figure out where the sweet spots are price-wise (new OR used), and THEN determine your exact budget in accordance with sensible objectives. But you are having a real problem here with "advice". Your latest (local?) "expert"? Please LISTEN: Forget THAT guy, too! Please reread previous commentary until it starts to sink in. Opinions differ, yes, but somehow you've got to figure out how to separate worthwhile opinion from the Yadayadayada. Please reread all the previous posts, INCLUDING PLEASE the other post of mine I pointed you to: WHY are you coming back with pretty much the same question without even having bothered to read the answers you have ALREADY BEEN GIVEN? Didn't have three minutes? C'mon now, you are spinning your wheels!
You'll have to decide what you can do to manage your cash flow most productively in the short term. But frankly, I just don't believe this budget thing has to lead you to short-change yourself where IT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE, possibly a large enough one that it could rearrange your whole perspective on what this music thing means to you and your family. E.g., I pay $10/month (or a LITTLE more IF I feel like it) for cell phone service: what do you pay? I ride the bus downtown to the library quite often -- it's amazing to sit there and see/hear the cell phone contracts in action among the bus-only-option crowd. And I have YET to overhear one meaningful conversation. Answering machines cost fifteen bucks.
This is a tale about priorities: unless your family is statistically pretty unusual, all kinds of cash gets frittered away here or there on all kinds of, objectively-speaking, ultimately unnecessary stuff. You are making a mistake if you cheap out below the PERFORMANCE level of that Jolida -- I can't be more blunt. Although, that's not to say something won't turn up on this site which could meet or exceed that level of performance for a bit less. Note, too, the Brio -- you COULD resell one of those you pick up here, when the time comes... and not lose much. Buy a new basic low end whatzitbox JUST for phono, your're gonna get hit down the road. Who here is going to want that thing used with all the substantially better performing options on offer to the vigilant? eBay? Good luck. My frank opinion. It's a live and learn thing... been at this, off and on, 47+ years (Roll your eyes, if you must)... And I reiterate, I gave you MY two (more alternative) options elsewhere. Failing to get a truly representative audition of the Jolida, I would (personally) go there first if price is that much of a concern. You asked... there's your answer from this quarter.
In addition and FYI, nobody has to be pulling high-profit bucks out of your pocket [High profit -- bottom line -- is much harder to achieve in so-called high end audio than you seem to think] for you to achieve what I suggested. The cheapest options are almost NEVER the highest value ones; nor do they tend to retain much value. The same can be said, not surprisingly, about most top-of-range offerings in many (most?) manufacturers' lines. In fact, it is often the case that the step-up model is, in fact, a step-DOWN in absolute terms. People on this site know what I'm talking about. And that doesn't necessarily mean someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Often, makers and distributors themselves fail to appreciate what (in some important respects) is the best of their own lines; or are just responding to what the [often not so shrewd] "market" wants. What else is new? So cool off your suspicions a bit.
Also, direct yourself toward quality music (there are many kinds), and away from the c**p the corporations that own the airwaves and the junk media want you to buy into reflexively. This will change the way you look at investing in a system.
SOME NOTES:
1.No, it DOESN'T suck because you've "only" got $400 -- that's life, that's where you are now. Come to better terms with it. You'll be happier, and probably live longer.
2.If you end up liking either of the DIY options you apparently didn't 'get to'(one of which is practically DONE for you already -- less picking up two tubes -- and costs $249!), there are plenty of people around who can help you, if you need that -- Min, at Tube Audio Lab; Tom McNally, to name two. Oh, and Abraxas Audio's another.
3.If you reconsider your situation more substantially and need to hunker down and save up for awhile, eBay is full of pretty nice $100 integrated amps with O.K. phono stages. I won a pristine Sansui AU-7500 recently, to give you an example -- in their best "McIntosh of Japan" regalia -- for $101 plus less than $20 shipping. And this is a piece people do want -- sometimes people are snoozing... Others here have done the same. If you will just put in the time and work at it, you can quickly find a nice, clean Kenwood KA-8100, something like that, for maybe just a little more money. You WILL probably need a refreshed power supply (major caps -- not a huge deal), though you can find such amps already serviced. Yes, there is some risk. No free lunches, remember? So buy something clean and nice someone else would want. Move up when you can. If you do refurb such an amp (one well-chosen), you may be able to resell it here when you are ready, or on one of the "vintage audio" forums elsewhere, for a better than typical eBay price. Note, too, that full-blown receivers often sell on eBay for less than the equivalent amps, ESPECIALLY when it comes to tube units [my Pilot 602, e.g.].
4. Want more opinions? Fine. But you're already slightly frazzled, so please get them in some orderly fashion [here]: you're not doing so hot with your "experts". All you've gotten there are some half-baked generalizations and a dose of confusion.
5. There are TWO other threads up right now, basically asking the same thing you are. Read 'em?
Good night, and good luck.