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Von Schweikert VR4SR vs VR5SE

Oh-no,another vs thread;-)

Anyway I hope someone can share their experience about any of the speakers even if you haven't heard them all.
Here I had a thread that maybe shows some of my preferances,or maybe not ;-)
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/25/259278.html

To try and elobarete a little bit more.I'm considering either VR-4SRmkI,mkII or VR-5SE,and I'm very eager to hear what Albert has managed in the VR-5SE,but I'm a little bit worried that the VR5SE might be to forward voiced for my taste.I had the DB99 and I felt it was to "forward" sounding for me in the long run.I also had the VR4genIIIHSE,and I regret I sold that one,but I think its a right step for VSA to go with higher efficiency,and I believe that VR4SRmkII with that midrange should be a clearly better speaker than the 4HSE also in the "always musical" sense.
I bought 2 pair midranges from Audax and one cone looks excactly like the ones used in the VR-4MKI and up to VR11,while the other looks like the one used in VR-4MKII,and to my ears they sound pretty different.I clearly prefer the sort of smoother quality of the cone from the one that looks like the one used in VR-4mkII.The one thats smoother is called PR170M0,and the other one is PR170Z0.The PR170Z0 seems to have an added clarity but to my ears it sounds kind of artificial.Sounds great on good recordings but not so good on worse,and for me a speaker to live with should rather sound a little on the soft side so that even the worst recordings should sound like music,not like "bad sound" as most "high-end" gear tend to reproduce them.I know this is a thin line to balance on and more transparent speakers and gear will always make the differences between recording quality clearer,but I have heard gear that have more real transparency,and the effect when its done right is that the worst recordings actually makes MORE musical sense because one can hear more REAL information from the record.Audio Note seems to be one of the few that manages to pull this off,IMO.
The VR-4HSE also had some of that good quality,while the DB99 seemed to me to be voiced just a tad to forward to my preferences.I even used the nice Consonance Cyber 211 on them.
Its always about voicing since there is no single part in a speaker that is "perfect",so in my view to make a well balanced "musical" speaker one shouldn't exaggerate and voice in, or add, an artificial "clearness".I guess this "clearness" is impressive on mobile-ref-verve show-off recordings,but when one puts on some of the exceptional good MUSIC that has been not so good recorded...then.....well....not so enjoyable any longer....

When I play my drums,bass,guitar or piano I hear real clearness,and the same amount of clearness isn't captured on ANY recording.There is no perfect microphone so allready there are the real clearness lost,so if one try to add the spooky clearness to a speaker playing back a record which doesn't have that clearness,then one exaggerates in my view.
I'm sure many of you know what I'm talking about.

I appreciate any feedback and thoughts even if you totally disagree with me ! :-)

Cheers,
Rune
runemigge
Post removed 
arkio
74 posts
 
Runemigge
Good choice with the VR4jr. They are not as ultimately refined as the VR5SE but IMO they can be as good as the VR4SR if your auxileries are up to the task and you don't need the SPLs. Get a good Tube preamp and you are set for a good while. Someone mentioned these are not the best value for $2500 used. I strongly disagree. I had a budget of 10K and auditioned 2 dozen speakers, some very well regarded. Ultimately, except for the Merlin VSM, I could not find any speaker that did my music the justice these did and I paid full retail. They are not the best but they are amazing value for the sound they can produce.

good listening
runemigge OP
7 posts
 
Thanks guys!
I got the speakers yesterday,and they sounded scary uninvolving for an hour or two,but now they are starting to play MUSIC! I think I agree with you Arkio and Elb!
In my opinion they are pretty spectacular value for money,and if I knew of any speaker I liked more for the same amount I would offcourse have bought those ;-)
I guess a lot of people have heard these under not optimal conditions or with surrounding gear they don't like and concludes that its the speakers fault,but the Vons that have crossed my path are very transparent speakers and chameleonish.

I guess you have read Greg Weavers review : http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr4jr_rev_positivefeedback17.html ,and I have had the VR4genIIISE and I think I agree that the Jr are more coherent with more speed and liveliness,but I have a feeling that the VR4genIIISE was a tad more organic or natural sounding somewhere from the mids and up,but I'm not sure.Its about 3 years since I sold the VR4SE.
And no need to say 2 9" woofers usually move more air than 2 7" ,but I feel the Jr's are an easier load on some of my favorite tube amps,resulting in more speed and coherency from top to bottom.I cant live without tubes and to me 2 KT88 in push-pull per side or 4 EL34 in push-pull in the Consonance M800SE is about as far as I like to go with complexity in a tube amp.I like the feeling of more power when one use more tubes in the output,but I don't like what happens to sound quality from the mids up.
The best amps I've heard are transformer-coupled using some of the best triodes from the 30-40s,but they don't have much power and it seems like the more I learn the more it seems that its all about doing the right compromises along the way ;-)

I have a feeling I will try to get hold of something like the VR-6 or the VR5Anniversery in the future.I've heard that Albert did some adjustments to the VR5Anniversary to make it an easier load for smaller tubeamps,and that it works very well with push-pull 300B amps that will put out about 15-30 watts.
Do you Arkio or anyone else relating to MUSIC primary,feel the the refinement of the "better" VS speakers like VR5SE come with a price of not sounding as MUSICAL with "bad sound quality" recordings?
How does the VR-6 compare to the newer creations from Albert? I've read that many found the VR-6 to sound a little to "aggresive" or "forward" and thats usually not qualities that mates with "aggresive" sounding recordings.....

Cheers,
Rune
arkio
74 posts
 
Runemigge,

I have spent a great deal of time listening to the VR5 (not the anniversary edition but the regular SE ones) at my dealer. It is very revealing of what is being played, not sure if I would go as far as to say ‘ruthlessly revealing’ to the detriment of musicality, but there is certainly no hiding, if lets say a cable or amp or other auxiliary is not up to par, including of course the room. Which I think should be certainly on the larger side of average. My dealer runs his with all BAT equipment and the sound is exquisite. . That said at 25K there is really nothing anyone can or should be able to say to sway anyone one way or another, you gotta find someone who has them , and bring a dozen of your favourite CDs, otherwise its all speculation. For me they are on my short list, most definitely. They will (unless I win the lottery) be my last speakers for some time, so I am taking my time - thanks to a good dealer. There are others in this price range (and even a bit cheaper) that are equally as impressive, so keep an open mind. Good luck
runemigge OP
7 posts
 
Thanks Arkio!
I know the norwegian dealer for VS speakers recently got the VR5Anniversary,other than that I don't think there is a single pair of VR5SEs in Norway.I will certainly pay him a visit with my favorite music before a eventually purchase,since its a lot lot lot of money for a speaker.

My livingroom is pretty big,but its constructed in such a way that I don't have more than about 12 feet from backwall to frontwall and my main listening spot would be about 8 feet away from the speaker.So in a way I have a small listening area and it might be that the Jr. are more the appropriate size for my room,I don't know.......
I have experienced that some of the bigger VS speakers need room to breathe to show their best and at times can sound strained,somewhat forward and bass-heavy/slow in too small rooms......

Anyone have experience with the VR-6 VR-8 in comparsion to the newer creations? VR-8 is out of the question because of its weight,but I believe they should be about the same from midrange and up.

Thanks

Rune
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