Hiho, The Signet TK5Ea is a sweet cartridge but there is an even better stylus for it than the original.... The AT 155Lc is a nude Line Contact, pressure-fitted on a beryllium cantilever and transforms the TK5Ea into a real 'Player'....π Unfortunately, they stopped making the 155Lc stylus and finding one takes patience. http://www.head-fi.org/t/691757/audio-technica-at-155lc-cartridge-stylus-has-no-more-than-50-hours-s...Best bet is to look for a complete AT-155Lc cartridge with low hours and 'grab' it. This one looks to tick all the boxes. Good luck... |
Hi Harold,
Congrats on joining the "Living Dangerously" Club..ππ
We await your reports with excitement and trepidation...π€
Regards |
Hi guys, I've been busy doing some architecture for the last 5 weeks so haven't had time to drop by a lot. Great to hear about Lew's TT-101 and wonderful to have Peter and JP helping out with the big Victor. I have to agree with Banquo about the Victor pigskin mat http://i.imgur.com/OvDW2EZ.jpgalthough where you might find one.....who knows. The Victor pigskin mat can be initially a shock for those who haven't experienced the extreme purity of the TT-101 and its presentation. I've tried over a dozen mats and another dozen combinations of mats....but ultimately return to the Victor. For those who trust the Victor engineers....ask yourself how and why they found the need to develop this specific exotic solution designed to sit on their Laboratory Series bare cast aluminium platters π€β I'll have more to say about platter mats when I complete my current project. Vive the Japanese DD uber decks. Long may they live..π§ |
Lewm, I used a Micro Cu-180 on my TT-101 and it sounded wonderful.
Trouble was....the brake-action when the stop button was pressed couldn't cope and at the time I didn't know that there was a variable resistor to adjust this brake action.
I, like you....was concerned by the weight on the bearing and also I doubted that the bi-directional servo control could possibly work as designed...π€
I thus began a search for the platter mat that would sound the closest to the Cu-180 and believe it or not......the gossamer weighted Victor Pigskin came within a whisker of the same sound.
What's the science of this...ββΌοΈ
Go figure...
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Good to see that the TT-101 is finally working Lewm...and that you find it appealing. You've a lot of fine decks to compare it to so your opinion is valuable. I'm running the Acutex LPM 420STR on the SAEC WE-8000/ST around my Victor http://i.imgur.com/lzxFU1b.jpgand from all reports.....your 320 is better. One thing I found was that the 420 just came 'alive' when I mounted it in a Yamamoto HS-1AS Ebony wood headshell which surprised me. It might be worth trying for you.....π§ Regards |
Flieb,
I like your idea of a lead platter mat, but as you've found...I don't know how to maintain a constant thickness with sheet lead?
It is so malleable that you can depress it with your fingertip.....
The only solution I can imagine, would be to laminate it between two sheets of glass or acrylic but then you lose the critical benefit of the lead/platter/vinyl interface...π
Have you listened to the TT-81 before recapping?
Regards
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From a 6 Moons Review of the Walker... The base is crushed marble in a lead and epoxy resin and gorgeous. The Platter is 75 lbs. of encapsulated lead, the most resonance-free material known to man. It also used to be on Walker's website but I see that he has since removed all reference to lead.....π |
Welcome to the Thread fast_mick.
You're right about the perceived 'value' of certain brands in the Japanese or Asian marketplace and yes......JVC/Victor is not so highly prized there whereas the Yamaha 750GT/1000GT are so numerous I'd swear they were still producing them.
And the prices they pay for a 2000GT or 2000L seem ridiculous....especially as I've not read any particularly glowing reports of these decks from international audiophiles?
Can someone who has a Yamaha 2000GT please contribute?
I'm interested....
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Great info again hiho, but it only begs the question initially asked....why do the Japanese place more value on turntables made by a company like Yamaha which used the brain-power and production-power of JVC/Victor at the same time as almost ignoring the quality of the Victor products?
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Lewm, I was speaking generally after hiho posted his interesting (as always) info about Yamaha using Victor/JVC motors and electronics.
if you follow HiFiDo you will see that mountains of GT 750s and GT 1000s sell for around $1,000 and GT 2000s are often double that with the 2000X and 2000L multiples of that price.
The Victor TT-61, 71 and 81 often languish below $400 whilst the occasional TT-101 might go for $1500 so my question (and premise) remains unanswered....
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A few weeks ago I saw a TT-101 in the Victor wood base with tonearm and mounting boards for two other arms asking less than $2,000 on HiFiDo.
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I would kill for another of those Yamaha brass and wood record weights.
Do you see any of these come up on Yahoo Japan Β sampsa?
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Haha Don....
I would rarely talk trash about belt-drives in general as I have one myself and enjoy it immensely βΊοΈ
But when they start charging $30 Grand-$200 Grand for gigantic belt drives whose performances can be matched (or bettered) by $1000 well-chosen vintage Japanese DD decks......people need to wake up and smell the roses πΉ
For 30 years the high-end audio world ignored the great Japanese DD 'Statement" products from Technics, Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony, JVC/Victor, Denon etc and convinced the public that belt-drive was the 'only' way to 'turn'.....mainly because anyone could knock up a belt-drive in his garage (and many still do).
If not for the Internet there would still be little recognition for DD turntables as a viable alternative.
When I first entered the audio world with a Technics DD and Kenwood integrated stereo amp....I was soon convinced by all the British Audio mags to go belt-drive. I soon bought a Rega Planar 3 with Hadcock arm and actually heard no discernible differences to my Technics but I happily stuck with the Rega for nearly 30 years.
That was then and this is now.
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Hi Norm,
Absolutely zero sound from my TT-101 and it's switched on 24/7....
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Halcro
You have edited out the most significant comment by Gunther Frohnhoefer of Acoustic Signature with regard to wow and flutter Dover, Unless I was prepared to type out the whole two page interview here...I was bound to leave out many things he said. I think it's debatable what the "most significant comment" may be..? |
So Harry is making his VPI Direct even better... https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/the-audio-vault/analog-playback/turntables/10314-peek-at-vpi-aven...And in the latest TAS, JV talks to Gunther Frohnhoefer of Acoustic Signature on his latest Invictus belt-drive and asks him about the "comeback" of Direct Drive... Yes, I know there has been a little comeback of direct-drive motors. Invictus is a cost-no-object product. If we had thought a direct drive motor was significantly better, we would certainly have made an investment to design it. Yes, you can get better wow/flutter values with a direct-drive motor of high torque. This is the truth and nobody can deny it. Not even me. But at what price?
To begin with, a direct-drive motor is expensive. Great AC motors are readily available in Europe at reasonable prices. Direct-drive motors need to be produced in small quantities at high prices.
Normally a 3150Hz tone is used for measuring wow and flutter. However, if the centre hole of the record is minimally off-centre, you cannot achieve a stable 3150Hz tone no matter how perfectly your table spins.
So yes, direct-drives may have better values in principle, but you simply see/hear no advantage of those better values in real life because of these entering issues. Sounds a little defensive to me.....π |
Dover,
I think his main point is that 'super' wow & flutter figures were unnecessary Β because of record hole eccentricities which to me is just a 'cop out' π
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Hi Norm, When I first set up my Victor and armpods, I supported the turntable motor with its own metal shroud on Tiptoes http://i.imgur.com/Xp97BF8.jpgThis at first sounded better than most tables I had previously heard but I thought I could do better than this makeshift arrangement. So I designed and had built, a stainless steel cradle http://i.imgur.com/UuEyECm.jpgwhich had adjustable spike supports and three rubber supporting pads on top to rest the motor assembly http://i.imgur.com/2FH8xGR.jpgThis was indeed an improvement in rigidity over the previous model, however after a few years, I discovered that the lightweight nature of this supporting structure allowed for accidental movement of the geometrical relationships vis-a-vis the massive 24lb armpods. So I designed a circular βplinthβ cut from a single solid block of granite and polished http://i.imgur.com/ouvBGRN.pngI lined the inner surface with cork to absorb the electro-magnetic waves bouncing around from the transformer, power supply and motor unit and had the same three rubber βbuttonβ supports fixed to the top to support the motor unit itself http://i.imgur.com/h673918.jpgThe improvement in sound was revelatory and confirmed the fact that Newtonβs third law of motion (For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction) applied to the motion of turntables. The centrifugal force of a spinning platter must be resisted by enough βmassβ to avoid movement. http://i.imgur.com/ddKNHVx.jpgThis is more readily seen in a suspended turntable where the centrifugal force is not resisted and must create movement about the sprung suspension. The Kronos turntable with its two counter rotating platters effectively solves this problem for suspended turntables. http://media.tas.zeitpress.com/articles/images/JH%2011%20The%20Kronos%20Sparta%20turntable%20comes%2...With an unsuspended mass-loaded turntable of any kind, that centrifugal force is absorbed and thus resisted by the mass of the supporting structure. The sonic effects of this added mass to the TT-101 in my situation, is a tightening of the presentation together with a relaxed delineation of the entire soundstage and instrumental focus. The detailing snaps sharply and the lower registers plunge solidly with an unwavering pitch and tunefulness. And as a bonus.....the geometrical relationships to the solid bronze armpods remain static π Regards |
Hi Fleib, Interesting point. Assuming the motor is still coupled with three rubber pads, it's not only the mass of the pod which resists motion, it's also the integrity of the coupling and mass of the motor unit insuring that resistance. I wonder if performance would improve if the motor unit was bolted onto the pod. The TT-101 merely resting on the three rubber pads is relying on the 'friction' of the motor-unit mass to transfer this motion energy into the granite plinth. I believe it's enough but you're right.....it would be better to mechanically connect it but at this stage, I don't know how? π€ Regards |
Welcome to the TT-101 club Norm π
It seems to be growing at a great rate....
What table did you have before?
I've listened extensively to a TT-71 mounted in a JVC wood plinth and whilst sounding good, it does not quite have the solidity of focus nor the reach into the lower sonic regions that the heavy granite plinth endows.
The crystalline shimmers of the upper frequency harmonics are also clearer and more delicate with the granite.
And Fleib is right.....the rubber dampening between the aluminium motor unit and the granite base is essential, as listening with the motor unit in direct contact with the granite was a drain on the emotional content.
Direct contact to wood is a different kettle of fish...π π
I think you're correct in the assumption that with the rubber supports, the actual 'material' of the base assumes lesser importance than its 'mass'. And that was the motivating force in directing my design to 'stone'. Other than brass, bronze or steel....stone was the densest material for that form of plinth.
I don't however agree with your thoughts on air-borne vibrations affecting the motor unit.
What tonearm are you intending to use with your turntable?...or did it come with one already mounted?
And have you checked that all the functions work correctly on the notoriously complex TT-101?
Regards
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An impressive list of tables and arms Norm.....
No shabby equipment there..ππ
Will be interesting to hear your impressions once your Victor is making music.....
The Minus K is a good platform for any deck and will allow the TT-101 to shine.
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Halcro, is this what you mean by βAre we living Dangerouslyβ? Kinda....π© The TT-101 is just more complex electronically than any other deck I know of. I've never heard a 'hum' with mine however. Apart from replacing the electrolytic capacitors....the most critical thing I found with my TT-101 are all the 35 year-oldΒ solder joints. There can be micro cracks which are invisible to the naked eye. The best 'fix' is to flush them all out and re-do the lot. The most critical ones (especially if the speed indicator changes) Β are the joints under the control panel. I would strongly recommend that you send your deck to jpjones (if he is willing) who is somewhat of a 'guru' electronically and was able to fix Lewm's intransigent Victor where others had failed. Once fixed....I believe you can look forward to years of NOT living dangerously..π Good luck... |
Yes.....I wrapped Mu metal around the power supply of the Victor TT101 and the results mirror that of sampsa.
No effect or better without.
The metal screen/cover to the motor unit (when properly grounded) does the job it's supposed to do....
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I was sent a few pictures of a boxed TT-101 with the original bits and pieces yesterday, regarding the deer skin mat that Victor produced,
it was shown in its original package included with the Table.
So I can confirm that it was an item that was included with the TT-101. Thanks Totem. Interesting....... Can you also confirm that it came with rubber mat at the same time? As that's the only mat that accompanied mine. |
Thanks for that totem....
Does that mean JP owns that TT-101?
Do you think that the markings on the top of the base plinth are some protective coating or just tarnishing?
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Hi JP, It's so valuable seeing a complete NOS boxed TT-101.... Just like a vintage car 'barnyard' find..... The finish I'm referring to is INSIDE the casing with the turntable removedΒ where you can see on mine there is no tarnishing on the aluminium? It would be great to hear the full story of how you came upon this 'virgin' example...πβ I hope I don't get reprimanded like Lew did for using that word....π |
Oh...ok..
My Serial No. is 07301160.
Yours is 11100690.
Now they can't have made over 12 million TT-101 turntables so did Victor just number consecutively every turntable they made?
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The Yamaha GT 2000 does things that I didn't think turntables couldΒ do Err....feed the dog? Shine your shoes? Help me out here.....π€ |
I started this Thread over five years ago, bemoaning the
imagined horror of being unable to keep our beloved vintage Japanese DD
turntables functioning due to lack of partsβ¦β¦notably βchipsβ.
I believe, in the course of the many Posts sinceβ¦. we have
probably allayed those fears.
I also, in the second Postβ¦..complained about the complexity
of the Victor TT-101 compared to its βbrotherβ, the TT-81. Both decks perform the same. They both share the exact same construction, dimensions, platter construction and bi-directional speed control patented by Victor. The only functional differences between the two were the use of a coreless motor for the TT-101 and the highly complex but accurate, 4Hz stepped speed-control buttons contained within the TT-101 circuitry. I also mentioned years ago that I was unable to detect any differences in 'sound' or performance between the two. Why then....was the TT-101 designed to be so overly complex in comparisonβ π Last week, whilst I was listening to the TT-101......the speed accelerated instantly and a 'bang' coincided with a total power outage. The entire street (and suburb) was without power for two hours. When power was restored.....the TT-101 was unable to maintain correct speed π± How a 'spike' or 'surge' in the current was able to bypass the Eaton DSFi Dual-Stage Surge Power Filter positioned at the switchboard before the dedicated power circuit, then bypass the PS Audio P3 Power Regenerator before also bypassing the 240V-100V step down transformer in front of the TT-101 power supply is a mystery to me...... Particularly as nothing else in the entire audio electrical architecture was affected π€ I rushed to the attic to retrieve my TT-81Β and it slipped into the polished black granite cradle without a single change to my surrounding three arms being required π I was not prepared for what I heard when I resumed my listening...... The sound was better than I had been hearing from the TT-101.....and considerably better... And whilst the TT-101 is with my Tech....I'm left to ponder this dilemma π€ Thoughts.......β
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Thanks for the comments guys.....
Makes sense that the performance of the TT-101 was deteriorating BEFORE the outage....and that was the 'coup-de-gras' π
Will be interesting to compare the two when I get it back.
Yes totem.....my Tech has fully serviced the 101 two or three times previously but no lubrication or dismantling of the bearing. It seems fine and spins freely for endless minutes when turned without power.
No storm or lightning Lew, when the power went.....and the Donald didn't cause it π
I know your preference has always been for coreless motors.....but I thought the SP-10 Mk3 is NOT.....?
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That's exciting Shane.
Is it the one in the Link you posted?
How many turntables does one man need.....π
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Glad you like the UNI Lew...
That one was my third after I wore out the first one nine years ago.
At that stage I was a one-turntable/one-cartridge man and wanted to ensure I had continued listening-enjoyment for the years ahead....π
With iover 40 cartridges now, I can't see me wearing ANY of them out....
I haven't heard the UNI II or Suoreme or whatever they call their latest and greatest....
From the reports I have read...they seem to be even better, but then again....if one is prepared to pay the prices for these....one would expect to hear an improvement π
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Dover- without him actually saying it....I don't think Thuchan is that impressed with the DP100M.
I DO know that it doesn't get much listening time amongst his enviable collection, so your description of its sound is believable....although I wouldn't necessarily use those two cartridges as a gauge.
I have them both...π
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Shane-rather than buying the Denon....I'd be more tempted to buy his TT-101 as a backup to mine. Knowing how thoroughly and beautifully re-built his Victor is...I suspect it may be the best TT-101 in existence...?π€
Any news on your SP10Mk3?
Will be interesting to hear how it shapes up against the P3?
My money's on the Pioneer....π
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Looks good Shane.....π
Can't remember seeing a Technics arm quite like that one.....
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Thanks for those Links JP....
That arm is a serious piece of work π
Good score Shane π |
Greetings from High End Munich...π
No vintage DD tables in use here....
Tables of choice appear to be Kronos and TechDas.....but mostly they spin for show.
CDs and Servers are the popular (and easier) option.....and when the sound you hear is predominantly determined by the speaker system employed (Linn lied to us).....even I don't care π€·ββοΈΒ
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The Yamaha GT2000 series turntables use the coreless motor supplied by JVC if I recall correctly...π€
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Hi chakster, After the High-End Show 2017 in Munich....I spent several days in Regensburg (a scenic Bavarian town on the Danube) where I was privileged to listen extensively to Thuchan's impressive system. His Victor TT-101 was never humbled by his other great turntables including the EMT 927/R80 and his latest Caeles. The TT-101 is the only Direct Drive connected to his system as his Nakamichi TX1000, Marantz JT1000, Denon 100M and Sony PS-X9 are all 'retired'. I found a non-working 'basket-case' TT-101 for him in Canada which he was able to purchase cheaply and he had it completely rebuilt....a process which dragged on for over a year. When his technicians finally had it completed....they were unable to get it working due to a faulty main chip which they couldn't source anywhere in the world. I remembered that Lewm had written about finding some unobtanium power chips for the 101 some years ago and lo and behold.....these were the ones that Thuchan needed and thus was saved from obscurity (thanks to Lew's generosity), another TT-101 vintage deck. My own TT-101Β has risen to new heights since it, and the three arm-pods have been supported by the active Herzan isolation platform. Victor TT-101 turntables only turn up about 3 or 4 times a year on eBay or Japan Yahoo but almost invariably.....they suffer from some malady or other making them....because of their complexity.....prime candidates for the tip. People like JP Jones, I see as the saviours of our glorious great vintage DD turntables....π€ |
Yes chakster......it's the same plinth except his is slate whilst mineΒ is polished granite. I sent Thuchan the blueprints which he used for his slate copy... It's really hard to be definitive in the used TT-101 market.... They are so rare that their current owners 'pretend' there is nothing seriously wrong with the example they have for sale, and often price them (or go to auction in the case of Japan Yahoo) as if they are in good 'working' order... Sometimes an honest seller will contain the work "junk" in their yahoo description and yes.....you can perhaps win the auction for $300-$400. A better bet perhaps is to wait for a Canadian or US seller who admits the deck is not working and will negotiate a price between $500-$600. Buying from a 'known' re-seller in HongKong like Foxtan is not a guarantee of joy (as I found out to my regret and cost) but buying from Tommy at TopClass Audio in Hong Kong (as I finally did) is perhaps the best course. But then be prepared to pay $1500-$2000 and wait 1-2 years (as I did) for him to find a working example. But even if you DO stumble upon a real 'working' example.....you will probably find that something 'breaks' within a few months. Invariably you will need to replace all electrolytic capacitors and a few transistors and most importantly.....burn out all the old solder joints and replace with new. So if you are eventually bound to have to do all that....I would advise anyone who really wants a TT-101....to buy a 'junk' non-working model for less than $500, and send it to JP Jones for a complete restoration. I don't know how much JP Jones charges for such a service, but you would need to put more than $1,000 into a 'junk' TT-101 to have peace of mind I would imagine.... An alternative would be to buy a TT-81 for $400 on HiFiDo and live happily ever afterΒ ππ |
Nice work on the plinth totem....π
'Be happy to help audpulse...just pm me or post your email....
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Regensburg in Bavaria may be closer to you chakster......
That's where Thuchan's Tech resides and I've witnessed his work first-hand.
It's first class and he now knows the TT-101 inside out....
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He didn't work on my Victor chakster (I'm in Sydney)....
He rebuilt Thuchan's who happens to live in Regensburg.
If you decide on this route, let me know and I will try to put you in contact with him....π
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Received your PM Misha and sent through the details two days ago but it appears my response didn't get through.
Have just sent it through again. Please let me know if you don't receive it...? |
A sad story.....π±
If you paid via PayPal of course, you are covered and the Seller will refund your money and PayPal should even refund the costs of return postage.
Good luck....
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The German vendor who fixed Tuchan's TT-101 does not respond to my emails. Perhaps he is on vacation....? You could try phoning.....? |
For those looking for a good Victor TT-101.... http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=s541556118This one looks worthwhile. The FR-64s tone arm alone is worth $1500 so Iβd expect this auction to realise close to $3000..... Compare that to VPI Direct at $30,000 and βyouβre whistling Dixieβ....ππΆ |
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