Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

@best-goove 

This problem is what happens to my turntable.

Same with mine as described by Lew and explained by John, would be nice to know how you will fix that. I put my TT-101 aside. 

Hey,
Anyone can post a list a capacitors for TT-101 ? 
Someone who replaced the original oldies may still have a list of a new nice caps (full set, it would be easier to find them for newbies like myself :) @halcro @lewm ?  

@pbnaudio yes, but still need to figure out where do you buy them and which brands? 

@best-groove 

I was lucky because my second TT-101 which i bought as a donor was better than first one! Actually it is working, but to start the platter i have to touch it by my hand, and then everything works just fine. Funny, i bought this turntable as a junk. 

My first TT-101 that i bought as working unit (not junk) and paid more for it, does not work correctly (as it was described earlier), i mean it works fine, but only for 30 minutes (more or less) and then turned to "stand by" mode when the platter stops energising.

-The JVC Victor service in UK is one of the options, and communication is good. 

-German service is another option, but the communication is not that good. 

-JPjones is propably the best option, but he's in NYC 

-There is another person who can fix it, but too far away in Australia. 



  

@lewm Tuchan’s technician in Regensburg, Germany: www.Audio-Reparatur.de
He stated the estimate cost at 1000 Euro for repair.
thanks @halcro 

It’s like the original first press versus the remastered reissue.

Top quality vintage analog gear has it’s own glory.
Vintage turntable in perfect condition is also an investment, the price only goes up in time. Luckily we have people who can calibrate them, refurbish them or even upgrade them. Doing it by our own is even more interesting, but not each one can do that. But most of them are just fine and need no service at all. Turntables from the 70s and 80s are amazing, it’s a pleasure to have them and use them, same with tonearms and cartridges from that era. They are all reasonably priced today and it’s great. That was the golden age of the analog. No reason to sell them even if that new Sp-10R is very very good (sooner or later it will be on the used market too). 

@downunder

Does it really matter. All our tables in 20 years will be worthless as nobody will be buying any physical media or players.

Oh, i’m waiting for this to buy all my favorite records from the 60s and 70s for $1-5 like it was in the 90s when majority of people believed in CD format. Only 10-15 years later the price for rare vinyl increased to the stratosphere, some of those records now cost hundreds and thousands dollars even in VG condition. Dealers, who 's bought warehouses full of records at that time, now are millionaires.  

Never tried TT-801, I don't like vacuum pumps on any turntables, I like usability and simplicity (record clamp or record weight, no vacuum pumps). I don't think TT-801 is any better than TT-101. 

@lohanimal  The mat and clamp i like the most is this one 
It's heavy, no problem for my Technics or Luxman, but for my Victor and Denon turntables with highweight platter i'm gonna use SAEC SS-300 and Sakura Systems THE MAT. 

Since we discussed SAEC Solid Mat earlier in this thread i want to post an update, because i got an English manual for this mat finally, i will not post the paragraph about drilling record labels to screw them into the mat :) 

But the rest of the information from the manual is below: 

FROM THE ORIGINAL SAEC SS-300 (ENGLISH) MANUAL:

The conventional turntable mat is made of soft material such rubber, in the belief that soft cushion will effectively filter out vibrations between the turntable and puck-up stylus.

***A lesson from an old tradition:
In certain Buddhist ceremonies a bell or wood block is used which sits on a cushion. The cushion, being softer than the bell or wood block, does not prevent the instrument from ringing when it is struck. It merely damps the vibrations somewhat so that they are of shorter duration (that is, they decay faster) than in the case of bell or wood block suspended in the air.
The record disc and turntable platter used in conjunction with a soft mat are in state resembling that of the bell or wood block on a cushion. As the stylus oscillates in the record groove, the disc having a certain elasticity, it caused to vibrate slightly. Depending on the size and other physical properties of the disc, these pulsations vary in frequency from 100Hz to 400Hz. If the turntable mat is softer than the record disc, it will deform along with the vibrations of the disc. The Sympathetic vibrations are of sufficient amplitude to cause an audible low resonance peculiar to record playing. Likewise the turntable platter, when a soft mat is used, vibrates sympathetically and contributes to the problem of low resonance.

***A classically simple solution:
After two years of development, the audio engineers at SAEC have produced a completely new turntable mat which solves the problems of the conventional soft mat. The new SS-300 Solid Mat is of material harder than any record disc. Placed directly on the turntable platter, the Solid Mat by its mass and hardness cancels sympathetic vibration of the platter. Likewise a record disc in immediate contact with the Solid Mat is prevented from vibrating. Where as the conventional soft mat merely damps sympathetic vibrations, the Solid Mat reduces these vibrations by 10 to 15dB compared to the conventional mat, thus effectively eliminating the problem of low resonance.

***We did it our own way:
This new component brings us an important step closer to the realizing a technical ideal of record-playing. For a record to be reproduced perfectly, the stylus and its cantilever must oscillate with no interference from vibrations of the other record-playing components. Thus not only the headshell and tonearm but also the turntable platter and record disc itself should be completely oscillating.

The famous SAEC tonearms with their patented Double Knife Edge design are the only tonearms made that have solved the problem of tonearm resonance. This was accomplished by radical departure from conventional approaches.

Again with the SS-300 Solid Mat, SAEC has turned conventional wisdom on its head to solve the problem of record and turntable resonance.


*** Turntable Solid mat. Model SS-300:
The holes is the mat are made not to cause resonance in the radiant direction on the plane of the turntable.

Aluminum alloy - using special surface treatment (rough surface).
The solid mat is so shaped that may be used for many representative record players and turntables.

The resonance of a turntable itself (resonant sound from turntable), which could not be eliminated by the conventional type turntable mat made of soft material like rubber, is prevented by using the SS-300 solid mat, which creates a state of non-resonance through its interaction at its critical point.

The Solid Mat must be placed directly on the turntable platter. Do not use a soft mat between the Solid Mat and the turntable platter, since the Solid Mat will then be caused to resonate either independently of or jointly with the soft mat. Similarly do not place a soft mat between the Solid Mat and the record disc!

Under ordinary condition there will be no problem of slippage, since the SS-300 Solid Mat has a special nonslip surface.

Do not place a stabilizer weight on the record disc, as this will deform the disc and reduce the effectiveness of the Solid Mat.

Use reasonable care in placing record on the Solid Mat. Do not place/remove records while the turntable is rotation.

Do not drop the Solid Mat, since any crack or deformation will reduce its effectiveness.

I have the same stock plinth from QL-10 but the color is much darker. I like this small plinth better than the one designed for 2 tonearms. Stock feet is garbage, the best are AT-616 pneumatic and this is what i’m gonna use. Will put my Technics EPA-100 mkII or Ikeda IT-345 in this plinth.

If a buyer can repair TT-101 in his own country then it is worth the investment for sure! But at the same time some killer DD turntables like Denon DP-80 are cheaper and almost always in perfectly working condition (same with my beloved Lux PD-444).

P.S. Victor UA-7045 is a very nice tonearm if the rubber grommet is strong enough to support counterweight (or must be replaced with a new one). After owing various samples of NOS or perfect 7045 (and some not perfect ones too) i finally upgraded to the UA-7082 and now with Victor MCL10 cartridge it is a killer tonearm! 

Dear @chakster I’ve seen you mention the AT 616 legs before.

My problem with them is that the cheapest set i have seen is about £250.00. I do not have a problem affording that but there are modern options by Townshend that are worth exploring. Likewise I just find the thought of accessories costing as much as many a component a bit silly.
That said I would like to know what goes into their design

Townshend Seismic Isolation Pods cost $675 (I paid about the same for my AT-616).
The Seismic Pods come in individual weight capacities of as little as 1-2 pounds per Pod, to as much as 64-140 pounds per Pod.

The set of 4 x AT-616 support 10 to 60 kg (22 to 132 lbs.).
See what’s inside the AT-616 , i like this design very much.

I never seen the AT616 anywhere in Europe or USA for the price you’re referring to (the price you mentioned is for cheaper and smaller AT-626). If you can find AT-616 for 250 pounds buy it immediately! I would buy two sets myself for this price if it’s true. 250 GBP for the set of AT-616 is a joke, it's steal, almost like a free gift! 

The AT-616 were about 400 euro even 7 years ago and now cost twice as much (or very near). I sold my spare set in 2019 and you can still read and check pictures if you you need more technical details here.

Anyway, the AT-616 is what i’m gonna use under my Victor TT-101 plinth @lohanimal

News about my two Victor TT-101 that i bought in 2017.

1) I have reported earlier in this thread that first of them purchased from the original owner as "working" appeared to be defective on the first test on arrival. We discussed the issue here few years ago. I gave up on expensive service abroad with expensive shipping, and could not find anyone locally to take a risk on repair. So i put this unit aside in my living room and it was there from the summer 2017 til the summer 2019. When tried it again in 2019 it was WORKING! Magic? I did nothing, but i think a constant temperature in my room and good energy somehow cured my TT-101. I tried it several times on 33/45 with pitch up and down and it's just fine, it was constantly on for 48hrs in each session many times. And i can't detect a problem i saw on arrival 3 years ago. Maybe it was just a stress after transportation, maybe it was stored for some time by original owner in his basement, who knows. But stayin' unplugged in my room for 2 years years something happened and i think it's because of the right temperature in the room.  

This unit is quiet, easily working for 3 days non stop and right now still spinning.

I think it's a good sign, so i ordered a plinth for this turntable. 

2) I also mentioned another sample that i bought later, i thought i'm bought my second sample for parts as a donor. The unit i bought was described as defective from the start. I also mentioned this problem before in this thread. The situation with this 2nd sample was different that with my 1st sample. When i got the unit it was working on arrival, but i had to touch the platter by hand on the start. Then rotation was stable for a long time, i think i already tested the unit for a few nights nonstop in 2017. Anyway i put it aside next to my 1st unit and it was in my room for more than 2 years. 

Last week a friend asked me to sell him one of my Victor TT-101, i replied that i will check both and i did. I forgot which one is 1st and which one is 2nd, because visually they are identical and looks MINT-

Now i figured out which one is 1st and which one is 2nd after investigation of my old invoices etc. 

I've noticed common problem for some vintage direct drive i've bought last year (Denon DP-80 and Technics SP-20). Nothing serious and very easy to fix, but on the first test looks like disaster. The motor under the platter on Denon DP80 and Technics SP20 is fixed by several screws, sometimes they are not screwed properly or simly a bit loose (because the turntables are 40 y.o.). When those screws are loose the motor and spindle can be off-centered and as a result the platter is off-centered too. When the platter is slightly off-centered the edge of the platter can grind the edge of the turntable body. As i said it is very easy to fix, all you need is to loose the screws, turn the platter on, check the position, the remove it and fix the screws on the motor. 

This is why my 2nd Victor could not start without a touch of my hand. When i removed the platter to fix the screws i realised it was a bit off-centered, so i fixed it and problem gone. Turntable start spinning when i just press the start button. The problem is gone! 


BOTH SAMPLE WORKING!
BOTH TT-101 ARE FINE NOW, FINGERS CROSSED. 

The minor difference between my 1st and 2nd units is:

-when my ear is near turntable i can barely hear pulsation coming from the electronics inside the TT-101, but only when 33 or 45 rotation is "on". When my TT-101 is in standby mode i can rotate the platter manually and there is no sound, so this is not mechanical sound, it is a very very low level pulsation from the electronics. Not sure what it is? 

Another sample is dead quiet, nothing like that. But i think stop button must be calibrated, it works fine, but after the platter stopped there is a backward move, very little. For example i've seen it before on Technics SL1200mk2 and it was fully adjustable, it is a function of "stop" (slow stop of the platter, or immediate stop with a tiny final move backwards).  Not a dig deal i guess.

I have that huge service manual and to my surprise TT-101 motor does not require lubrication ! 

I know that TT-101 can be calibrated according to the service manual. 

Great, so i can experiment first with different mats and clamps to match my current settings. My 1st sample move backward a bit after stop. but my 2nd sample does not move backward or forward after stop, so i assume this is ideal. Anyway it does not bother me much, both are ok.

The platter is lightweight compared to others, is it allowed to use heavy mats like Micro Seiki CU-180 (1.8kg) or CU-500 (2.7kg) ? Or much lighter mass are better ?

Do you hear any high frequency pulsation coming from the electronics near the disk when the rotation is "on" ? I have it on one sample only, but i barely hear it, anyway it’s there.

Is it true that no lubrication needed for 40 y.o. unit ?

Thinking about the plinth i’ve been looking at this amazing finishing, i really like it (all my custom racks are same color), why not just paint original Victor plinth like that to refresh it ? It is automotive? I’m gonna use mine with At-616 pneumatic footers under the original Victor plinth. But i hope i can paint the plinth (if i will find who can offer such beautiful finishing), it is probably better than new veneer ?

Yeah...nice finish Chak 😃
It may be hard to obtain on the existing veneer....?
Maybe a car body and paint-shop?

I decided to try, maybe both methods (new veneer one one plinth and paint on another). What i don't like on original Victor plinth is that veneer surface on arm boards and on the plinth always mismatch. I think it's possible to prepare the original for new veneer (some nice exotic wood) or prepare it for proper automotive paint over the original plinth.  

• VICTOR CL-P2D PLINTH for 2 tonearms was quiet expensive in 1981, nearly 40 000 Yen in Japan. Must be OK ?

Double arm cabinet developed for TT series turntables.

The structure which laminated the beech wood and the high-density particle board which the vibration damping rate is very large is adopted alternately. The thickness of each material is determined by rigorous theoretical analysis, and a total of seven-layer sandwich structure is used to achieve no resonance and no vibration.

The surface is decorated with natural wood paste of rosewood.

The pickup board adopts a special laminated structure of beech wood, and is removable because it is fixed to the cabinet with bolts.
In addition, pickup boards were sold separately, and each arm could be replaced.

but i remember this thread too 

@totem395 

Hey, this is yours ?
I've seen it online before, also very good for a new plinth.
But my idea is to refresh the original plinth first with new veneer or some decent paint  

SAEC's SS-300 mat is aluminum, anodised black and then coated with a very thin ( and very strong ) teflon coating

The success of the mat is in its cut-outs in the physical design as well as the coating which stops ringing and is gentle on records as well as being anti-static and balanced

Long out-of-production, I've tried dozens of mats and the SAEC is a keeper

I have the same feelings, it's one of the best mat in my opinion. 
Here is the one on my Luxman PD-444, it's perfect for almost any turntable, i've been using it on Technics SP-10mkII and SP-20 too, it is also fine for SL1210mkII+ series, Victor TT-101 or Denon DP-80. 

When i bought NOS sample in the box (with manual) i notices red tool and a small metal piece that allow to tighten up the mat to the spindle with a tiny screw (this is why there is a very small treated hole in the mat near the spindle hole). When you're buying a used sample these parts always missed and i believe a few people seen it.    

@uberwaltz It’s a minimum price on ebay for used without box, buy it if it’s clean, the price increased in the last 3 years, this is what i noticed myself. And NOS units normally twice as much.

@lewm

Did you notice a tiny treated hole near the spindle hole on SAEC mat?
Do you know how to use it ? The manufacturer was smart enough to offer this option, you can tighten up the mat to the spindle, but you need additional accessories that you can get with a NOS mat (along with the manual) and a nice box. I realized it only when i bought NOS (unused) mat, a complete set.

About NOS SAEC mat:

When i bought NOS sample in the box (with manual) i notices red tool and a small metal piece that allow to tighten up the mat to the spindle with a tiny screw (this is why there is a very small treated hole in the mat near the spindle hole). When you’re buying a used sample these parts always missed and i believe a few people seen it.

If you like scratched or damaged mats you can always buy them with 50% discount compared to MINT- or NOS.
This is RARE mat, it was made 40 years ago.

If you think the price difference between a used Technics SP-10 mkIII and a NOS (boxed) Technics SP10 mkIII will be just 10% then you’re living in the different reality. Some vintage stuff is impossible to find in NOS condition. Actually vintage hi-fi gear is highly collectible. And there is a collector’s value of the NOS gear.

I wish i could buy everything NOS just adding 10% to the price of the used items, but in reality the price goes up to 50-100% for a NOS records, cartridges, mats, turntables, tubes, whatever vintage 

I hardly think the SS300 is the second best mat of all time, if the SOTA mat you reference were to be the named best of all time. But you’ve made your own opinion clear. Like I said about my own current preference, the BA Mat2 is generally a smidgeon ahead of the SS300, but I happen to like the SS300 on the TT101, for some reason. Yet there are some who dislike the BA Mats, too. If energy dissipation is your fetish, then the BA Mats are certainly designed with that in mind.

@lewm interesting, i have 3rd version of BA mat, anyone who can’t find BA1 or BA2 can buy new The Mat from Sakura Systems, its thinner than BA2, probably the best of them. Just 250 bucks within USA.

"After some hiatus period, Boston Audio has teamed up with SAKURA SYSTEMS and now proudly introduces "The Mat", the culmination of our experiences through developping Mat 1 & 2. By incorporating different carbon graphite material, we successfully achieved the identical performance of Mat 2 with less thickness (4 mm) and the reduced price."

diameter/293mm
thickness/4mm
weight/454grms

P.S. Micro Seiki CU-180 and CU-500 are the mats to dies for if turntable can handle high mass. 
Today i got my Micro ST-20 gunmetal clamp and it's so nice, much lighter/better than ST-10
Now i have gunmetal under and over the record. 

So since the thickness of the Mat2 is no problem for me on either of two turntables where I use Mat2s, why would you say the new product is "better" than the Mat2, when even the manufacturer claims it is only "identical" in performance?

@lewm I said "probably" because it’s much thinner without any loss in quality.
And for those who’re looking for BA mats this is the only one that is NEW for $250, old BA mats are all used (secondhand).

Chakster.
Thanks very much for the info on the "new" Boston Mat.
Wanted to try one but near impossible to find an original one.
Will look into it.

@uberwalts You’re welcome, i think it’s better to buy latest version, because each one who owned BA-1 claimed BA2 was better, now they have "mk3" with warranty from the Sakura Systems 

@lewm i rarely seen BA mats, when i tried to buy from BA direct it was sold out and you know it was many years ago. I hope that teamed up with Sakura they made something better, because it is not just a re-issue of BA-2 or BA-1. Compared to SAEC those mats must be fixed to the platter with tape (i'm thinking to do so), they are so light and the hole diameter is slightly bigger than needed.   

Discovering the best Direct Drive turntables I've come across Victor TT-101 many years ago (thanks to this thread).

Later I bought two of them, my second unit was purchased as a donor for parts, but appeared to be a good working sample.

We're working on a very interesting Victor project at the moment. Two Americans and two Russians are involved. After participating in our long thread here on audiogon about Victor TT-101 restoration I decided to ship one of my samples to Fairfield County (Connecticut, United States). This is where Mr. JP Jones himself will proceed with recap, joint inspection and calibration of the Victor TT-101.

Nobody touched my unit before, but there are several experts in Germany, Australia, and the United Kingdom. However, we believe that Mr. JP Jones is the best, he's the one who worked on several units in our community and he has the Victor TT-101 himself along with some other mega rare Technics turntables. Another reason I'm sending my TT-101 to JP is very simple - this turntable will stay in the USA after complete restoration. Now this beauty is packed and shipped. It will be a long transit over the Atlantic ocean. 

** From my notes about pitch control on vintage DD turntables *

Some people don’t understand why there is a pitch control on High-End turntables, for most of them pitch associated with DJ turntables only.

In reality pitch control is an amazing feature for reference class turntables and critical listening sessions too! Musicians will get the idea quicker ...

JVC/Victor engineers explained very well why there is a special pitch control on TT-101:

"The pitch, "A" is standardized at 440Hz according to international standards, and is the standard for all western musical instruments. In other words, the tuning of all instruments of the orchestra is based on this pitch. But in reality, the basic tuning pitch of each orchestra differs due to the instrumentation and individual characteristics of each orchestra, as well as the personality of the conductor. The diagram shows such differences by orchestra. Most of the pitches range within +/- 6Hz of 400Hz. To reproduce these subtly different pitches, a quality turntable with highly accurate rotation is required. Another important requirement is the possibility of minute speed adjustment. If the speed of a turntable could be adjusted to the individual pitch used by an orchestra while at the same time remaining controlled by a quartz-locked servo system, the benefits of flexibility and precision would be significant from a musicological viewpoint. For this reason the TT-101 is equipped with built-in speed-control facilities which can adjust the pitch in 1Hz steps within a range of +/- 6Hz or 440Hz. The difference of pitches between master tape recorders and disc record cutting machines has been intentionally ignored before but now the speed of a record can be adjusted to match the original pitch of the orchestra, even if the master was recorded differently from the original performance. For example, a performance of the NHK Symphony Orchestra on the record can be adjusted to match the pitch of the same performance on a record by the London Symphony Orchestra, for the enjoyment of critical comparison.

The "A" key of a piano in your home is usually tuned to 440Hz. When you practice the piano while playing back a record, you can adjust the pitch of the record, to be in perfect tune with your piano."

( *all images of tt-101 taken by myself)

Just recently acquired a PD-444, the ability of mounting 2 tonearms and looked in good condition it made it hard to pass by, still waiting for it to be delivered. I’ve got an EPA-100 mk2

Luis, unfortunately you can’t mount EPA-100 mkII on Luxman "armboard", it’s impossible, required hole for the tonearm base is too big (actually it’s huge). I have EPA-100 mkII too.

Any Technics tonearm with that huge base (like EPA-500) is not compatible with Luxman base.

But earlier EPA-100 (not mk2) is fine for Luxman.

As a second tonearm for the PD-444 what should I look for? MA-505LS? FR-64s or 66s? apparently the SAEC’s and Victors are not that good as the FR and MA per previous comments. Just trying to look for a versatile tonearm different than the EPA-100? Note I also have a 1200mk5 Technics with medium mass tonearm.
Thank you in advance for your answers, I’m excited with learning and rediscovering vinyl.

Actually Victor are perfect, but you need a NOS sample, not broken junk. I think Victor 7045 and 7082 are excellent tonearms for very reasonable price, but again, you need to find absolutely perfect sample.

Fidelity-Research are fine, I have 64fx with n60 and 64s with b60. But I’m using them only with low compliance cartridges.

Another arm is Lustre GST-801 which I have on my PD-444 for a long time, great tonearm for the money (with great features, this is a nice arm for many cartridges), much more reasonable priced than Fidelity-Research.

P.S. Welcome to the Luxman club!
For your PD-444 try SAEC SS-300 mat, Micro Seiki CU-180, or modern Sakura System's THE MAT. 

You can’t do anything to mount EPA-100 mk 2 on Luxman, people have no idea what they are talking about! It’s impossible, no matter how many metal or wood boards you can do, the mounting hole of EPA-100 mk2 is huge! This tonearm is not compatible with luxman pd-444.

I have two PD-444 turntables and all LUX arm bases.

3 arms arround turntable is the ugliest thing I ever seen, leave it for Micro Seiki owners. Luxman designed for 2 tonrarms and it’s state-of-the-art turntable. If you need more buy another luxman pd444 for another 2 tonearms.

Luxman armbase size is about 60mm on one side, so you can’t make a 60mm hole in 60mm armbase, also there is a lock mechanism inside the armbase. This base is not designed for tonearms with huge mounting hole (bigger than the base itself). Ever seen a PD-444 armbase or EPA-100 mk2 tonearm together? @dgarretson

Luis, do yourself a favor and use PD-444 as it is, without any modifications like subplinth or whatever, it’s a waste if time and money for nothing, really. The original design is absolutely perfect and it works perfectly without any single problem! It is a well engineered turntable, just replace the stock mat. 
Do not change the stock feet, they are adjustable (suspended). 
Luxman is one of thouse turntables you don’t have to mess arround, you don’t need a plinth! Read about clever engineering of this machine first. 

@dgarretson If you think your upgrade is better then it’s fine, but it’s you and your system. I have about 8 Luxman armbases (all types) and they are all fine in my system to my ears just like my two stock Luxman turntables. The reason I bought this turntable after SP-10 mkII is because I don’t want to "upgrade" anything in the "plinth" or armboards like we do with some other turntables constantly.

The PD-444 is a workstation for nearly all tonearms.
If someone is buying Luxman the best thing to do is to use it as it is, but not to mess around with "upgrades" (in my opinion). For "upgrades" there are many drives like TT-101 or DP-80 to make a custom plinth etc. 

I’ve seen a wooden plinth made for PD-444 but I don’t like it.
A nice LUX turntable in this plinth look like a cheap Thorens from the grandpa.

I made a nice metal racks (my own design) for a pair of LUX PD-444

P.S. I can highly recommend this tonearm for Luxman PD-444

This is one of the best DD turntables and once you will compare it to some others you will understand it. The benefit is its integrated aluminum “plinth”, so you don’t have to think about plinth at all. Start using it and realize this is a High-End turntable with decent motor.
The fact that only a few people on audiogon have PD-444 is something to think about. Read old comment from user cobra213 (if i remember his nickname correctly). 
With the right cartridge on your FR-64s tonearm I’m sure it will be hard to find anything better than Lux PD-444. 
Market value of PD-444 turntable in mint condition is over $4k. 

What was that?

It was the biggest and heaviest box I have ever shipped to America. The boiler box! Packed on September 5th, 2020. One of my Victor TT-101 turntable drives inside this box has arrived safely after a long transatlantic journey, it was serviced at Fidelis Analog. Now fully restored and calibrated it goes to a new owner, he will recognize a huge Peterbilt Truck with my boiler box, haha @knollbrent

There is only one turntable in Technics catalog released in unique wrinkle black finish (special surface treatment of the aluminum die-casting) is Technics SP-20 from 1976. In 1982 their top of the line EPA-100mk2 tonearm was released also in black finish (boron armtube). The EPC-100c mk4 cartridge is also black. If anyone would like to combine all together i'm selling my spare Technics SP-20 here. It's interesting to see the same policy of product placement "in black" from another manufacturers like Fidelity-Research. FR top of the line cartridges are black (f and fz), second versions of the FR tonearms are also black (fx), same with Technics. But silver or champagne color of FR-7 or Technics EPC-100c mk3 are more attractive. I think the EPA-100 is more attractive looking than mk2. But the wrinkle black finish of the Technics SP-20 turntable looks amazing, sad that no other models were finished like that. I think it's beautiful.