Thank you Al
For my tastes in music I truly think the art9 would be a better fit regardless after reading that reply from AT.
However that is a very useful test to see if at any future stage I could contemplate a true lomc in my present system and will perform it to satisfy my curiosity and increase my depth of knowledge on what is and what is not possible for me. |
What would be the real world difference between art9 and art7?
Art7 is a lot lower output at just 0.12mv.
What real benefit could one expect from that over the art9 ?
Please bear in mind I am no mc cartridge expert only experience is the shelter 501 that came with my tt.
|
Thanks Al for a very informative post as per usual
So in my case I may be taking a bit of a chance, my Spacedeck has a stock Spacearm ( as far as I know at least), do not think it will be anything special.
However at $860 new on eBay the ART9 is not what you would call high priced so it might be worth a try.
|
No problem Analogluvr
I too have been thinking about the art9 so would welcome any comments on it right here
|
Oh...and it sounds pretty darn sweet too. Lol
Now all I need do is find a buyer for the Dynavector P75, which is a darn fine phono stage but not in the Gold Note league. |
@rsf507
At this stage I have zero complaints.
I just love the total flexibility of being able to change settings like gain and loading etc right from front panel.
This makes for easy instantaneous comparison and much nicer than opening up and moving jumpers etc.
It is extremely well built, almost a work of art to boot.
Nice touch is outputs on both xlr and RCA.
Also two sets of inputs so you could set up for 2 different cartridge and only have to flip from input 1 to 2.
A lot to like so far! |
The Herron VTPH-2 certainly sounds like a great stage and along with Keith Herrons very honest upfront attitude even though it cost him a potential sale, if I ever changed my amp to something that had an impedance match I would consider the VTPH-2 very deeply.
Thank you all!
|
Very happy with the gold note so far, may have gone with one of the earlier suggestions and possibly have been dissapointed if not for Al and his impedance matching observations.
|
Robert
Probably no more than 25 hours right now, unfortunately away from home travelling for work for next 2 weeks. |
Lots of great opinions but the gold note ph10 seems to be really working out nicely for me right now, especially connected to my lyngdorf.
Thank you
|
Robelvick.
Played quite a bit of vinyl yesterday and right now ended up on exactly the same settings you have...lol.
What is your cartridge and tt? |
Have a few hours on it now and this is where I am right now.
Decided I prefer the sq via the single ended inputs but that might be the Nordost ic? On xlr I have a pair of wireworld silver starlight.
Back to riaa curve with -0.3db gain and loading of 100ohm.
Sure is nice to be able to flip though all the different settings at will within seconds.
|
@slaw
Yea that’s possible...lol
Sorry for any confusion there but I did get very valuable information from Keith for sure.
Invictus.
My understanding from minds much more versed in the subject than myself is that a mismatch from a too low ratio will result in diminished Sonics, bass, dynamics etc. Obviously then not an upgrade at all!
Better to buy correctly the first time if at all possible, hence my reasons for starting a thread to get as much information as possible. |
Thanks Al, clears things up a bit.
Robert
Just been playing with the curves
Atm, really liking Decca London and set at 0db gain and now 220 loading.
|
Oh and it sounded marginally better through the xlr into the Lyngdorf, not much in it though tbh, I could live with the single ended as well.
Not even begun to play with the curves yet, just trying riaa standard to get a baseline first |
Well first impressions....
What a piece of audio art!
Superbly built and crafted.
Very impressed.
But what does it sound like?
I set it up as per cart specs with loading of 100 and...well it sounded very bright tbh.
Love the fact that to alter load and gain its just a couple of pushes of the front button,no tearing it open, instant comparison.
Best sound realised so far is 0db gain and loading of 470 which is quite a bit more than recommended but my ears like this the best!
Of course it is brand new and may need tweaking after some serious hours on it.
|
Robert
What size fuse does it use, or should I say did you use?.I will be using my own pc but will definitely be going with a SR fuse. |
Robert
On Wednesday he said about 4 weeks and price would be $1149. |
So the dealer rushed it out, very nice of them and it should be here this morning ( out on fedex vehicle for delivery) yippee, I just LUV new toys to play with!
Also of interest is the fact that Gold Note are releasing a matching external PSU for this which may up the ante even further, reckon about another $1100 though..... |
They only had silver left and as my Burson headphone amp is silver, they can sit next to each other on the shelf.
Rest of gear is black but colour not a huge thing for me as long as it sounds good!
Probably will not see it until next week now though.
|
Well stumped up and bought a Gold Note PH-10 this morning
Now the wait for it to arrive...lol |
That was only dealer I could find too.
I am waiting for them to reply with an all in shipped price. |
Robelvick.
May I ask where you purchased your PH-10 from?
Not many people are selling them at least in this country (USA) that I can find so far. |
Al
As always many thanks for your assistance and clarification.
ATM, I am leaning towards the GoldNote as it should work very well into the single ended inputs on my Lyngdorf and I do like all the easily accessible features that do NOT include having to open it up and move jumpers around etc.
With all changes being made right at the front panel it is very easy to change gain and loadings near instantly and compare sq before short term memory leaves you questioning if that last change really did make any difference after it takes you 20 minutes or so to complete said change with jumpers. |
According to the Gold Note tech I spoke with via email, they designed it to accommodate just about any amp loading on the market.
Now one thing I do not know is what occurs if that ratio is sky high, say 500 to 1 or so?
Maybe someone smarter than myself will chime in and explain.
|
Explains a fair bit.
Just had email reply direct from GoldNote.
The actual impedance is just 50ohm, not 500ohm.
They said the manual has error...lol.
So the ph10 should work very well with my 2170 via either/ or xlr or single ended.
|
It had been on my "to do" list for a while but as it meant removing it from system, opening it up and moving jumpers around I just never got around to it.
Until yesterday.... |
While trying to decide which way to go on the phono stage I decided to experiment with my present Dynavector P75.
Thought I would give its PE setting a trial, (phono enhancer).
As my cartridge is not really low mc at 0.4mv and a 14ohm resistance which puts it right in the middle of the PE settings I thought it was worth a try.
Well almost as good as a new phono stage as it has definitely ratcheted up the dynamics, certainly on piano and female vocals.
Good enough to tide me over until I decide which way to go. |
Al
It is possible then that the impedance of the Gold Note could be just 50 and not 500ohms.
Either way it could work and as Robelvick has same setup and reports a good match .
Trying to get in home trial on either this or the Chinook.....
|
Yes it is
However Al did think it might do ok into the balanced inputs on my amp and there was supporting evidence from an actual user ( robelvick) that this combo does indeed work very well.
|
Quite likely then I am going to give the Manley Chinook or the Gold Note a trial as I do not see myself changing the Lyngdorf out any time in the very near future.
Will see if I can arrange an in home trial of either before spending money
|
Just going to copy and paste Keiths very informative email response to my question about the Herron phono stage. Obviously he is a true Gentleman as Slaw stated and would not see me disapointed in any way!
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the note. I like to see, as a general rule in high end
audio, an impedance ratio of at least 1 to 100 (output impedance
to input impedance) when using tubes or solid state as loading the
circuits down generally reduces the quality of the sound. I have
seen similar impedance ratio recommendations from Audio Research
and other high end audio companies.
Solid state circuits generally have much lower output impedances
than tube circuits. 10k Ohm input impedances are a standard
typically used in professional audio, but this does not work as
well for tube based high end audio equipment.
The two 12AX7, three 12AT7 version of our VTPH-2A has an output
impedance of 400 Ohms which performs best into a 40k Ohm or higher
line stage input. Some people are using them with line stage
inputs that are a little less than that with reasonable results,
especially if their cartridge has a lower output voltage. Your
integrated with a 10k or 5k single ended input would likely
restrict dynamics substantially, even with a very low output phono
cartridge. I can't recommend that combination. Audio is supposed
to be fun.
Another thing to watch for is that some line stages (particularly
digital ones) have a very low input voltage limitation which can
cause overload (clipping) with some analog sources. That can sound
nasty.
For the reasons above I design our line stages with a 100k Ohm
input impedance and a wide input voltage margin in order to get
the best sound quality from tube based sources such as phono
stages, tape machines, tuners, and DACs with tube output stages.
I wish everyone would do that.
I hope this short explanation helps.
Best Regards,
Keith |
@Robelvick.
Hooked up the OPPO via digital coax so can instantly compare the sq to the existing xlr connection.
Have to say the digital is far superior in every aspect, and that is with a 15 year old Monster cable I had lying around.
Opens up possibility of taking a phono input via xlr. |
@slaw
I will be trying to call him tomorrow |
@bpoletti
That is a very good suggestion and will do so next week.
Thank you |
As always Al your contributions are helpful in my quest to say the least.
Many thanks as always |
I did but only once with the older Hegel amp and preferred the xlr input sq.
However I should really try it again in the Lyngdorf. |
Unfortunately I am already using the balanced inputs for CD player, although possible I could put that on single ended.
if it works well enough for robelvick it may be an option if the single ended impedance is really as low as suspected
|
Before I make any decisions I will wait to hear back from Lyngdorf with their information on what the actual impedance on the single ended inputs is.
Many thanks for all of the great suggestions and excellent advice. |
I have emailed Lyngdorf to get their statement on the correct single ended impedance so will wait until I have that to hand before looking much further.
Budget is not an issue apart from common sense! |
@almarg
Thank you for your patience and time, yes I missed that on the Herron as was just looking at the last page under specs!
So then for example the gold note is listed as having output impedance of 500 so x10 or even x20 to be safe would be between 5 and 10k which should also make it a possible contender in the match up stakes for the 2170.
However I believe you are correct that my next step should be to have Lyngdorf confirm the unbalanced input impedance which could be at odds with the small info gleaned as it actually has two different sets of analog inputs.
One set of 2 single ended inputs come standard and then there is an additional optional analog input module which I had on my amp which carries the balanced set and 2 further sets of single ended inputs so giving me 5 analog inputs in total.
All of the single ended should be the same but you never know.
But again thank you as at least I have something to work off right now and the start of a plan that now does not include wasting money but hopefully getting it right first time. |
Thanks robelvick, you are correct I did find that but I deleted my post to make a different post to hopefully cure my obvious non understanding!
|
@almarg
probably me but I could find no mention of the output optimal loading in the Herron manual so obviously I am not understanding correctly at all.
So not sure what I should be looking for exactly in other phono manuals like the gold note?
|
Thanks Robelvick, will check that out |
Al
I was genuinely hoping you would chime in because when it comes to impedance matching etc, you always seem to have the answers.
And just maybe you help save me wasting time and dollars and ultimately being dissapointed.
So Chinook should be a good impedance match.
I need then look for other possibilities that are in the same range.
Thank you |
Read up on the 3 mentioned so far.
What cost for phono stage would be regarded as sensible when you take into account cartridge cost which is approx $1150 new? |
Budget is not really an issue but not sure what ratio to value of tt/cart would be fair and sensible.
Will read up on the ones suggested
Thank you
|
Yea I have read many places that a tube phono is recommended.
Any suggestions on which?
|
