Thiel Owners


Guys-

I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!

Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
128x128jafant

Pablohoney

Birdseye Maple finish

Wood finishing is an art of its own. Thiel took its cabinetry and finishing quite seriously, far beyond normal utilitarian protection of the wood. In Thiel's first two decades under my direction, we built cabinets that were fully mirror images of each other. Our wood stable included dozens of species – basically everything that anyone would request.

Our approach was to let the woods' natural color and grain shine through, with mild exceptions. Those included toning unusual flitches of a species toward the norm as well as producing the 'expected shade' for others such as Mahogany and Cherry which have a long history of particular darker-than-natural shades which approximate how those woods age through time when exposed to natural ultraviolet rays. But all in, let's call Thiel's finishes 'natural'.

The colorants we used were dyes rather than pigments. Dyes are very small molecules of color for shifting tone without obfuscation, whereas pigments are quite large – resulting in a more opaque covering effect. I note that later finishes such as the signature Red Birdseye on the 2.4SE, and the very red Morado on my CS1.6s, as well as the 'Dark Cherry' on the SCS4s are all pigments. They obscure the underlying grain and are easier to apply more consistently than dye stains.

Back to natural finishes. An important aspect of a natural finish is that it enhances the natural characteristics of the underlying wood. A good natural finish does not visually sit on the surface. Many water-based and other plastic finishes appear as a separate film over the wood. They have very large molecular structures compared to the underlying wood and their refractive index (how the incoming light is bent) is quite different from wood. Nitrocellulose lacquer and shellac, exhibit refractive indexes closest to wood. Our production finish was a pre-catalyzed nitrocellulose lacquer with its first-coat sealer having additives for ease of sanding. This finish handles and acts like lacquer, but continues to get stronger after solvent evaporation allows molecular cross-linking. In our custom shop, we often used shellac as the sealer for its subtle range of coloration and old-school visual appeal. Our industrial finishes were custom blended with safer solvents and premium working and durability qualities. But a close working approximation on the open market would be Sherwin-Williams Sherwood Catalyzed (precat) Lacquer over its branded sealer or shellac.

On to the particulars of Birdseye Maple. Birdseye is an anomaly which acts and looks differently when viewed from the tree's exterior or interior. Therefore if your panels contain mirror-image bookmatches, you will have 'innie' craters on one half and 'outie' craters on the other half. To avoid large reflective differences that can make one half look darker or lighter than the other, good practice is to apply a penetrating and a wash coat to the panels to plug the tubular pores in the wood. The first penetrating coat is sealer cut to 33% viscosity and the second wash coat is cut to 66%. The third full viscosity sealer coat is sanded level to accept the topcoats. If you are darkening the maple, it is best to use clear first and second penetrating coats and add color to the third full viscosity sealer as well as early topcoats if needed. Staining bare Maple is risky due to unpredictable color striking over differing micro-grain structures. The final topcoat should best be clear. Our production finish was 1 sealer and 2 topcoats, unless more was needed for color or grain needs. Note that more thinner coats produces less orange-peel than fewer thicker coats. You don't want orange-peel.

A pro tip learned from my musical instrument making is that you can level a final finish without the laborious rub-out process like you see on high-end guitars, etc. Allow your final topcoat to flash off dry to the touch (5± minutes depending on temperature). Then briskly and firmly rub the finish with a soft cotton tee-shirt, etc. The finish is soft enough to lay down under this pressure for a lovely soft, level gloss. You can soften the gloss further by using regular builders' fiberglass first, and following with the cotton knit if desired. Practice on scrap. If you are making a showpiece plinth, I suspect you might like what you get for the extra effort. Such showpieces often get a coat of carnauba wax for a soft feel and look. Thiel did not wax its finishes, but some users did.

I've tried to choke the fire-hose enough to not overwhelm while supplying enough content to chew on. Let us see your results when they come.

 

 

tomthiel

Thank-you for taking the time to write this up. You are a wealth of knowledge on many subjects. Thanks for being such a helpful resource to us all.

My take away is let the natural beauty of the wood standout and provide a finish that does not inhibit this.

Some of the techniques I came across started with a coat of Boiled Linseed Oil or Danish oil, then non-waxed shellac, then top coated with polyurethane for durability. Likely Boiled Linseed Oil or Danish oil was not used on the 3.7 finish I have. With the raw Birdseye it's stark white in comparison to the finished 3.7's and wondered if any of these oils had been used to darken.

Sounds as the Shellac will provide the warm amber look of the 3.7's and allow the beauty of the wood to shine through. I assume the 3.7's have darkened over time. I'll pick up the supplies you suggested and trial on scrap pieces and see how it looks!

Heading out on family vacation so it will be a bit before I get back to this. Will keep you posted.

Thanks again!

pablohoney -

As fate would have it, our original ’O’ series used Danish Oil as a first coat to seal and warm the tone. That went out with the 1983 CS3.

Our sealer or shellac are clear, which in shellac land is called ’white’, unless you want some color to match your aged veneers, etc. Then there are many shellac shades available beginning with ’blond’, all the way to ’dark amber’ and ’orange’. Begin with the thinned clear wash coats like I described. Just wade in.

I advise against polyurethane as that chemical family has much larger molecules and different light refractive index that I disparaged above. Try for lacquer to get a ’Thiel’ look.

Greetings everyone and Happy Friday.   This may surprise a few people, but i got the itch to get a new amp and so am selling my PS Audio BHK 300 mono blocks.

if anyone is interested they can PM me.   They work great with Thiel speakers for sure as they powered 2.7's and now 3.7's.   Kent