Thiel Owners

High Performance Stereo has had a pair of CS3.5 with EQ listed on its site forever and a day - $1000 with availability in New York or “along the I95 corridor.”

I have never conducted business with them in the past; reluctant because they rarely tender any useful information regarding their wares, and the accompanying photos - when they post photos - are pretty poor. 

Has anyone here ever had a transaction with them?

Without being able to inspect them - especially the mids - I thinks they be way high at $1000.  I may tender a lowball offer of $500 simply due to the fact that they’ve been listed for so long...

PS:  I have made this offer to anyone here before - if you live within a reasonable distance of my zip 11755, I have a complete pair of 3.5 innards - woofers, tweeters, mids, crossovers, and speaker emblems. 
The mids are kaput - the other drivers worked fine. 
FREE - but only if you pick ‘em up.  I gave away the EQ to a fellow member here earlier this year.  

And a happy Thanksgiving to all

thielrules....

I see that the 3.7’s have an efficiency rating of 90db whereas the 3.5 is 88db. Does the efficiency difference offer a better low-level listening experience with the 3.7?  I’ve been able only to move up the food chain to the 3.6 which, in my humble opinion, did not offer the range at low listening levels although it did typically Thiel stuff when I went out of my comfort zone. 

Congrats on grabbing that pair!

unsound...

You were the very first member to relate the merits of the 3.5’s to me and once again I have learned more. 

I mis-spake (new word!) about sensitivity/efficiency and your input cleared that up.  Much appreciated.  

I had lived with a pair of Klipsch Epic CF-3’s for a period far longer than I have with any Thiels. (Entirely Audiogon’s fault, mind you.)  Those old Klipsch had a sensitivity of 101db, capable of being driven with a tabletop radio but - and oy vey! - those compression horn loaded tweeters really got to me after a while.  At one point, just before I removed the drivers and turned the cabinets into bookcases, I had actually stuffed a pair of white crew socks into the horns to eradicate the brittle quality.  Solely for aesthetic reasons shortly thereafter I used some foam.  Neither attempt resulted in resolution to the perceived problem so...bookcases. 

Don’t ask.  I am less of a carpenter than I am a technically proficient “audiot”, but it struck me as a good idea at the time.  

Anyway...it might be misconstrued by some followers of this thread that I didn’t like the 3.6’s. They were typically excellent Thiels - unbelievably “true” sounding from top to bottom.  It was only at my very conservative listening levels that they didn’t, couldn’t (?) deliver that natural, organic bass.  Pushed a little beyond my norm they were as wonderful as the 3.5’s. 

Thiel makes ANYTHING sound good, period.  I’ve thrown just about everything at the Thiels I’ve owned - class a, class a/b, class d, monoblocks, tubed and passive preamps, and they all benefitted from Thiel. 

If I didn’t discover Thiel from this site I would probably still have that old Pioneer pushing them Klipsch...

tomthiel... 

I reside in Lake Grove,  N. Y.   Very close to Stony Brook University.  Again, free for pickup only. 

I haven’t looked at them in a while but I remember the serial numbers were sequential.  

The Kids are alright...

My oldest brother’s son is getting married this coming October. 

I’ve attended many weddings over the last few years, too many, in fact all of them, using deejays for the reception celebration.  

Recently my nephew’s sister threw a housewarming party. As it turned out it served also to announce HER wedding plans.  Sheesh.  

During this get together I was talking with my nephew about his affair and he related that he and his fiancé had spent the week prior auditioning bands for their reception.  

“Bands?”, I asked. “Bands - actual bands?”

His fiancé overheard my question and quickly sided up to my nephew adding,” We settled on this great nine piece band from the Island.” (Long Island, that is)

I gave her a big fat hug, kissed her on the cheek while shaking my nephew’s hand. 

“Thank you for NOT having a $&@??!!** deejay!”

I had their attention for about five more minutes when his fiancé explained that a partial reason why they wanted a live band was due to the fact that the speakers I gave to my nephew a few years ago - a pair of CS3.5 - had them listening to different genres of music.  They started exploring different genres because what they usually listened to “sounded so good” through the Thiels...

A nine piece...

I’m pinching myself already.  

I said it before...THIEL MAKES EVERYTHING sound better.  

Happy new year, folks

Re:  3.5’s

I have a complete pair of CS 3.5 drivers and crossovers available for FREE to anyone here living close enough to zip 11755 to pick them up. I can’t/won’t ship them. I’ve put this offer up in this thread before. Sequential serials on the crossovers. 

The mids are non-functioning but the tweeters and woofers are 100% functional.  I yanked them from the last pair I purchased from a fellow member a while back. They’ve been stored in my garage in a vacuum bag since.  The cabinets were shot, so I decided to pull the guts out.  Sorry, but the EQ went to a fellow member here who needed it.  

I ain’t kidding - free for pickup!

I’m glad to report that bluestone is local enough and/or intrepid enough to arrange pickup of the 3.5 drivers and crossovers next week. Seems as though he is as fond of these old speakers as I had been. And I’ve had a few. They are most definitely worth sustaining for as long as feasibly possible.  30 year old speakers that sound this good?  Yeah!

The pair of 3.5’s that I gifted to my nephew - with the mids repaired by Rob a while ago - still sound excellent. At low to moderate listening levels I don’t think I’ve had a speaker that put out such impeccable sonics - which may very well be the strongest suit of this model. Yeah, it’s an old design, replacement parts are scarce and growing even scarcer, but they’re still an absolute bargain on the used market.  There’s a pair in California asking $800, and there’s been a pair in New York for well over a year asking $1000.  That would be my personal ceiling given all the drawbacks aforementioned.  

It has been a LOT of fun watching the discourse continue here; the conversations regarding upgrades and tweaking these speakers is interesting as all hell even though I wouldn’t know a first order network from a short order cook. That so many others also find Thiel to be something very special is - forgive the very weak pun - music to my ears. 

Thiel was responsible for me getting back into “hifi” around six years ago with my first pair of 3.5’s. Hard to let that kind of influence just go away. 

Rock on, thread!  Best there is ...

Interesting dialogue about Thiel and Maggie’s...

Previously, I’ve stated that Thiel struck me as Maggies with more bass. I stick with that. 

I’ve had two pairs of the MMG -.one with the bass module which did ZIP to augment anything good about them - a pair of 3.6qr,  a pair of 1.7 and a pair of 1.7i. With the exception of the MMG the one thing that kept me from keeping any of the others was their physicality.  I have a fairly accommodating space for large speakers and whatnot, but I felt as though they were imposing on me.  One very early morning as I was headed downstairs I looked ahead quickly and for a moment thought there was someone standing in my living room. Alas, as my sleep fog lifted and I came back to reality I saw it was just the right Maggie. 

I absolutely enjoyed the Maggies and I remain a fan. For one, they’re a helluva lot lighter than Thiels are, and secondly they simply present music in a very engrossing, involving way.  I spent a lot of time reacquainting myself with favorite records with them. 

Though Thiel presents the bass better, I never felt the Maggies lacked it - even though by comparison they do.  Both brands presented bass in what I think is a very organic, natural, uncolored manner.  Thiel just offers more, along with a smaller physical - especially vertically - footprint. 

When I return to being a full time “audiot” I’m quite sure I’ll be bouncing between these two again - especially since Coherent Source is in business. 

unsound typically relates a valid point regarding how good the 3.5’s are.  My listening room was 24 long by 14 wide with a ceiling sloping from 9 to 17 feet. On the left is a wall, on the right the wall is 14 feet away. 

Tough room to tame. 

As I’ve related before my listening level is, 90% of the time, conservative. My amps were almost all uniformly 150/8 ohms, 300/4ohms - IMHO quite sufficient for my needs. (Pass Labs, B A T., ARC, to name a few.)  Good stuff. 

With just a little bit of cable swapping and very minor positioning the 3.5’s had no issues putting out excellent sound.  I always employed the EQ. They were designed to use them so who was I to quibble?

The only other speakers I’d owned that managed the same effect were Maggies - albeit with a lot more fussing and sacrificing the low end. 

Financial setbacks and and a whole lotta other shite conspired against me in 2018,  forcing me to sell off all my equipment.  I’m now listening with a Bluesound integrated through Meadowlark Kestrels - it ain’t bad considering my budget. 

When my circumstances improve I am going to reconfigure from the ground up. First order will be finding a pair of 3.5’s, having Coherent Source bring ‘em up to snuff, then look for amplification. This will easily exceed the basic cost of a used pair of 3.5’s, but my previous statements that Thiels are an investment, not just a purchase, holds truer for me now than ever before.  And I won’t get as crazy with the whole equipment thing this time around, either. 

This forum is still impressive - 6000+ posts and nary anything negative. Bravo. 

R. I. P. Dr. John. 

Shite.  

I almost returned to Thieland a week or so ago when I offered $500 for a pair of CS3.5 from a seller within driving distance.  I had just sold off the Meadowlark Kestrels to another member here and couldn’t believe my good fortune finding a LOCAL pair of Thiel. We arranged a pick up time, agreed to cash, all set.  He even had the original cartons.  

The following morning I called the seller to tell him I was on my way, that the trip would take about 45 minutes.  He said, “I sold speakers.”  I replied, “yes I know, we spoke yesterday about picking them up today, remember me, Bill?”  Silence.  “Yes, yes, I remember, but I sold them.”  I asked him if he still had the speakers thinking that, hoping that there was something neither one of us was clear about. 

Nope. He sold the out from under me. 

C’est la vie.  

I had also also sold off my Bluesound Powernode 2i to help offset my purchase of an Audio Research DSi200 Integrated. Received it from TMR, perfect shape.  Original carton, all the desired usual suspects.  Couldn’t wait. Wouldn’t you know it that a pair of new Maggie MMGi’s came to bear within shirt order. NOS, still wrapped in the shipping carton.  Used price - hard to beat. 

I hook up the integrated, hook up the Maggies, take my usual spot in the living room, toss on Ani Difranco’s “Evolve” album and await goodness.  

Now I’ve had, including this pair, 5 pairs of Maggies. I’ve had ARC separates, too - I have a pretty good idea of what either is capable of providing sonically.
I’m listenin’ but I ain’t hearin’.  The sound is...lacking. No depth, no space. I turn it up a tad believing that maybe the amp likes to flex a muscle every now and again, kinda like my pair of 3.6’s that showed best at levels I don’t normally listen at. Nope.  I put the disc on infinite repeat believing the amp, as I’d read about, likes a long burn.  Nope.  Still...lifeless. I’m flummoxed.  

I spy in the A’gon classifieds a Belles 250i integrated for less than half of what the ARC cost me.  It’s in Joisey, close enough, so I make an offer. It’s accepted. I deal with one of the nicest guys I’ve met here on Audiogon - The integrated arrives the next day.  

Voila!  The Maggies are being profoundly Maggie. Except for the rather anemic bass I was hearing the kind of clarity I had been anticipating.  The Belles is a truly remarkable integrated.  It’s a hybrid, employing a tubed pre - which I’ve pretty much done me-self over the years with various setups.  

This is is the best integrated I’ve ever owned. 

Now...I’m watching the ads again for Thiel.  There’s a few 2.3’s around at acceptable asking prices. 

Almost back...it’s been painful. 

prof...
 
I sold off a bunch of my gear last due to a wholly unanticipated, devastating blow to my finances.  The upside to having good stuff is being able to sell it off and use the funds to pay off things. Ugh. 

The list of equipment I’ve bought and sold over the last few years is almost embarrassing.  (Damn you, Audiogon!)  The majority of it all bought and sold here on the site. As I had to attend to the mess that visited itself upon me, I had to whittle down my priorities and - forgive the pun - face the music.  The Meadowlarks referred to in earlier posts came back from my girlfriend, I somehow squeaked out enough to buy the Bluesound Powernode 2i.  I’ve had that Oppo CD player around for quite a while. It was...sufficient.  

I incorporated back in October 2018. Amidst all the legalities I encountered, getting it operating has been a lesson in circumnavigating...everything!

I don’t fault the gent who sold the 3.5’s out from under me. It’s perhaps the second time in years of doing this that a transaction went south.  

There’s another pair of 3.5’s that have been on a site for two years - stating available pickup in New York. I contacted them and was told they are still available. But alas, they’re in Florida and always have been. $1000 for them plus shipping?  Methinks not. At least not now. 

I’ve been lucky in the past regarding “local” Thiels for sale, and I’ll keep my eyes open. My nephew, to whom I gifted my first pair of 3.5’s years back, is getting married in the fall. Unfortunately his future wife has pretty good ears and she loves them.  

I’m watching a pair of 2.3’s - which I had before.  I liked those a lot. 

Sheesh...I went on a bit here!

prof 

Agreed - selling off stereo gear isn’t necessarily the path back to financial stability, but since two channel listening is my sole guilty pleasure I had, and have, nothing else of significant value to the general public. 
I woulda been worse off without the funds selling it managed to raise. Ugh. 

Anyway, I’ve been listening to the Belles 250i and I continue to be VERY impressed. A lot of the remarks in this thread include the words “uncolored, musical, airy”, and this little integrated hits all those marks. There is VERY little info on its specs anywhere to be found while at the same time a plethora of information about David Belles.  Interesting man. 

I’ve said before that I love both Thiel and Maggies. Jumping back and forth between the brands as I have sacrifices one thing or another, but IMHO, the trade offs are minimal at best. “Thiels are Maggies - but with mo’ bass”, I’ve said before.  

I don’t intend to hijack the thread, but if anyone is considering a Belles product, based on my thus far limited experience with one of them, I say go for it. 
Ani Difranco’s “Evolve” album, and Paul Simon’s “So Beautful So What” have some fairly complex interplay going on in many tracks, and with the Belles I can literally feel the pluck of guitar strings. The bass - MMGi’s don’t reach down very far, 50hz - also can be “felt.”  

I can can only imagine how a Thiel will sound in lieu of the Maggies.  It’s gonna happen.  Don’t know when, but it will.  

Alrighty - back to the thread!

jafant...

Yup - year’s ago I had a Rogue Cronus Magnum and enjoyed it. I think I had a pair of Totem Rainmakers at the time.  Used Magnums, depending on the version, fetch around and upwards of $1,200. I also used a Rogue 66 pre for a while - during my monoblock stage methinks.  

To be fair I haven’t had the opportunity to fetch a Pass Labs integrated, but my experience with the X150.5 amplifier was simply excellent.  The criticisms of Pass Labs being “clinical” or “bright” are shared by many Thiel models. 

Bah!  What silliness. 

I was able to get the Belles 250i for sub $1k. Can’t touch a Pass Labs integrated or power amp for anything close to that. I know. I been a-looking. 

I would have a difficult time of it discerning between the Pass and the Belles if I were blindfolded. It’s THAT good. With speakers as articulate as Thiel and Magnepan are, an equally articulate amp like this is an amazing match. 

Info on the Belles is at best difficult.  A few sources I found on the interwebmabob aren’t that reliable. Methinks it’s rated north of 100 watts @ 8ohms which, at my conservative listening level won’t stress the MMGi’s any - nor for that matter a Thiel 2.3, 2.4, or 3.5.  There’s a few tempting sellers out there of each model. Hmmm...

So far as my “amazing” audio purchases have developed over the years, the Belles now tops my list.
And that includes the $1500 Salamander equipment cabinet that I scoffed up for $150 when Stereo Exchange in NYC lost its least a couple of years back.  

Hello. 

Has anyone here conducted business with High End Audio Auctions on eBay?  They’re located in Brooklyn. 

Reason that I ask is because they list a pair of CS3.5 currently.  There’s no mention in their listing if the EQ is included. I just sent an inquiry to them regarding that.  

I loves me Maggie MMGi’s but I can’t wait until I toss a pair of Thiels at my Belles 250i Integrated. Man, this is a remarkably musical product.  

Beetlemania...

The speakers appear to be in good to very good shape cosmetically except for one speaker having some imperfections at the base. The drivers appear to be in excellent shape - at least via the photos supplied. The buyer has 100% positive feedback on eBay - as do I,  so I’m going to sleep on it and make the decision in the morning.  


The seller countered with $1550. Methinks that’s the best I can expect to hear for these. You’ve pointed out a lot of what impressed me about Thiel from my first pair of 2.2.  And now, with the option of upgrading them via Tom Thiel - down the road a bit - I will be able to restate that Thiel is an investment, not a purchase. 


Thanks for the the additional info. 

beetlemania...
Your post regarding driving your CS2.4's was MOST appreciated at this moment because I am about to tender an offer on a pair that's available locally here in New York.  (not the SE version) I just sold my Audio Research DSi200 integrated to assist funding it.  The seller is asking $1800. I'm offering $1400 - we'll see what develops.
My listening levels are pretty much in line with your own.  While I do listen at louder levels every once in a while,  most of my listening is done very conservatively.  Example:  I once sold a Threshold amplifier at a serious discount because I thought the meters were broken.  After the sale the buyer contacted me to say nothing was wrong - I just never listened loudly enough to get the meters moving.
At this moment I am once again enjoying the Maggie experience.  I love Maggies and I love Thiel.  My Maggie MMGi's frequency response is 50hz - 20khz - not much downstairs at my preferred listening volume.  Pushed a little bit,  just above that zone they do fill in nicely.  I can feel the bass.  But at lower volume...I find myself wanting.

Thiels do a much better job at reproducing that "feel" of the bass at lower listening levels - at least IMHO.  I'd keep these Maggies otherwise,  but this pair of 2.4's is tantalizing.
I'll be keeping the Belles 250i integrated.  Based on my previous experience with Thiel and Magnepan I just know this will be a fine synergy.  This Belles is outstanding.

beetlemania...

Yup - I decided to accept the counteroffer immediately so I wouldn’t risk blowing the opportunity. 


Black ain’t exactly my color preference but hey, right now I’ve got the Maggie MMGi’s in place and their panel is all black.  The Thiels are narrower. Whomever is  gonna see the sides ain’t listenin’, anyhoo. 


Looks like I might have a little touching up to do on the base - otherwise the photos appear to show the cabinets in all around acceptable shape. 


I’m practically giddy.  I am so impressed with this integrated and how it delivers through the Maggies. 
It has a fairly robust separate power supply that attaches to the integrated with an umbilical. 



I’m running Transparent cabling on the Oppo CD player, the Bluesound Node, and the Peachtree Audio DaciT. The speaker cables are JW Cryonova 8 footers which are very similar to Anti-cables appearance wise.  I like these types of cables because I am able to route them without them touching other surfaces. 


All this under $3k. Woohoo. 

jafant...
I’m still with the cheap-seats Transparent cables. I’ve yet to find a reason to concern myself with anything else. 


I am not going to head down the same road I did since joining this site.  It’s almost embarrassing how much stuff I’ve sold and bought here. This Belles is excellent.  I will play around with cables, maybe, down the road. I’m settling in, down, planting myself!

beetlemania...

Hahaha.  Good reply.  I just sold my Maggie MMGi’s off here on the site in just 3 hours.  Took a single re- list to sell the Audio Research DSi200 Integrated sole, but that was $1300 greater.  C’est la vie. 


What my “settling down” means is that I am not going to chase the Audio dragon any longer.  I had some fine setups in the past, but my curiosity - and available funds at the time - had me buying/selling too much stuff to mention. 


My happenstance discovery of the Belles integrated is what compelled me to actively seek a pair of Thiels. 
I moved from Maggies to Thiels before so I know in advance this time around that I will have an extraordinarily good setup - and all for under $3K. 


I’m picking up the CS2.4’s tomorrow afternoon.  The guy who purchased my Maggies might be picking them up later in the day. Talk about timing...


In order for me to get the same sort of articulation and accuracy I am getting from the Belles I would have to spend much, much more.  A LOT. I been dere, I done that. I learned. 


I am realllllllllly looking forward to hearing this amp sing through the Thiels. 

unsound...

I’m pretty much with you on the meters thing, but for reasons including your opinion and others. I kinda enjoy music a little bit more when my living room is practically dark,  illuminated only by the evening outside the window.  My neighborhood doesn’t have streetlights, is heavily treed, so it can get pretty dark under the right conditions. 


I sit 10-11 feet away from my speakers and the last thing I want to look at is a miniature replication of a city scape sitting atop my equipment cabinet. The Belles integrated I am enjoying now has but two small LED’s on its faceplate, one for on/off, one for mute. Using either one makes it disappear.  Noice. 


It’s kinda like the way new automobiles are. I see something “new” added to the “experience” and I immediately think, “Oh, that’s gonna be the first thing to break.”  I had a sedan with a/c’d seats. Nice. Broke. Expensive to fix. One with a heated steering wheel - very nice touch. Broke. Damn. 


On a somewhat similar note - why do some manufacturers position the on/off button on the rear of the cabinet?  Drives me crazy...

Updated my virtual systems page...


Picked up the 2.4’s from seller in NYC.  It was a typical mid-August summer afternoon in the city, about 94 degrees with oppressive humidity. 3rd floor walk-up, tight stairwell, 5 landings and about 100 stairs. (At least it felt that way.)



Original owner, all paperwork, manual, floor spikes, AND a spare midrange/tweeter driver!  That wasn’t mentioned in his eBay listing.  Very cool beans. 


Did my bestest 62 year old he-man imitation and picked those 70 pound cabinets up by myself, taking a break on every other landing to catch my breath and wipe the sweat from my brow.  Total travel time, payment, removal, and set up in me house?  Four hours. 


(I once sold off a pair of CS3.5’s because I found them to be “too heavy” to futz around with. Umm, these 2.4’s weigh EXACTLY the same.)  But the slightly taller cabinets make futzing just a touch simpler. 


So here I am, back with another excellent pair of Thiel loudspeakers once again - this time for keeps. I ain’t kidding.  

unsound...

Yes, I live in a three house court so even local traffic is a rarity.  Right now the walls are an offish-antiquey white which is almost necessary because it can get close to pitch when conditions are right.  I will go just a tad more deeper in hue, a light cream methinks. I sit facing a wall where the stereo is that runs from 9 feet to 17 feet at the apex - that’s a LOTTA wall and that’s a LOTTA white. 


It hasn’t any effect sonically speaking, but listening in natural evening illumination is just...cool. 

beetlemania...


Yes, considering that they had been in a very small apartment the overall condition of the cabinets is very good.  There are a few very minor surface scratches, a swirl or two from a cloth wipe, but nothing that will concern me while listening from twelve feet away. (We measured.) They’re black lacquer finished, so the imperfection on the bottom of one speaker should be a simple cosmetic job.  


Yesterday morning my buyer on the Maggie MMGi’s showed up and we had the opportunity to do a quick comparison.  He was readily familiar and appreciative of Maggies as I am, but had never heard a Thiel before. To repeat the obvious, Thiels are Maggies with more bass. The 2.4’s filled in the bass at my preferred and conservative listening level, but we both felt that both delivered in spades the accurate and articulate mids and highs. 


Oddly enough, I found that the Maggies had a more defined “sweet spot”, quite small but more dialed in than the 2.4’s. It was an enjoyable comparison to say the least. 


I have the 2.4’s sitting atop a pair of maple blocks I had laying around - which was what the Maggies were on as well.  This raises them another 3 inches. This is probably  speaker heresy of some sort, but I compared listening to them on and off the blocks and, well, couldn’t hear any significant difference. I already have a series of holes in the floor on either side of the equipment cabinet from previous spikes, so I’m content to leave them on the blocks.  For now, anyway. 


So typical of many Thiel owners whom I’ve purchased from, the seller expressed he was relieved to know his were finding “a good home.”  This was not the first time I’ve heard that.  It will possibly be the last time because there ain’t nuttin’ making me sell these off. 


Down the road when and if I possess the scratch to consider the crossover upgrade I probably will. For now, mated to this absolutely excellent Belles 250i Integrated amp I could not be happier with the return of Thiel to my house.  I will remember my previous statement that Thiels are an investment, not a purchase THIS time.  These are going into my will. 

The Sony HAPZ1es was my favorite streamer/server. 


For those of us who want to keep the “computer” out of the two channel setup, this piece performed the best.  Prior to buying the Hap I had a Bluesound Vault2.  I felt that the Bluesound offered marginally superior sonics, but in order to incorporate it into my system I would have had to run a 70 foot Ethernet cable fro my bedroom to the living room. Ain’t gonna happen. 


Either unit had a 1TB hard drive which was more than sufficient for my collection.  With the Hap I bought a cheap apple disk drive - $80 - and loaded approximately 600 cd’s worth of files onto it.  That, and my iTunes library, didn’t tip over 500GB.  Sheesh.


The Hap’s interface was simple, straightforward, no nonsense. The only reason why I sold it was because 2018,  in a word, sucked for me.  That’s the final addition to my current setup. They seem to hover around $1200 pre-owned (I sold mine for that) and have been $1999 new for the past few years. It is a worthy product for anyone’s setup. 

Having begun with the CS2.2's,  then CS2.3's,  then CS3.5's,  then CS3.6's, and now with my recently acquired pair of CS2.4's I think I can offer a little healthy opinion upon what one may encounter when "moving up" the Thiel product line.  Again, I stress that all the forthcoming observations are exclusively "IMHO" based;  I don't know a mosfet from a misfit,  but I know what I like.

For the life of me I cannot recall the associated equipment I had when I acquired  the pair of CS2.2's,  but I do remember how astonished I was when I first hooked them up.  I would guess that the power source and playback equipment I had at the time was pretty modest - I joined Audiogon in 2013,  somehow stumbling upon it as I was searching for yet another piece of vintage,  circa 1970's stereo receivers.  You know,  the old Marantz, Pioneer,  Sansui two-step.

All of a sudden everything sounded better.  I was hearing things in my collection that I'd never head before.  The music sounded natural,  clean.  I didn't keep those for too long because a pair of CS2.3's appeared.  A move up the line?  If these "cheap" speakers sounded so good I imagined what stepping up a model would provide.  So I did.  And I was right.  The two models struck me as being very similar, with the advantage however small or large going to the CS2.3's.  The CS2.3's just..."rounded" things off for me,  developed a keener sense of space and depth.  It was here that I started looking into better equipment.  I was still using - *gasp!* - big box store basic cabling throughout my system.  I never truly gave the notion much thought.

Not much longer after this pair,  a pair of CS3.5's appeared on another site.  By this time I had delved into Jim Thiel's legacy as deeply as I could,  reading anything I could,  whenever I could.  I was impressed by his philosphy,  his common sense,  and the technical prowess hepossessed that all came to fore with what I was hearing.  It was very much like the first time I tasted a bonafide Chablis.  I had a bottle,  I had a rather weighty and opinionated tome to refer to as I sampled the wine for the first time.  "Wow.  I actually GET this.", I thought.  (And thus began my career in the wine biz.)

I met the gent who was selling the CS3.5's in a shopping center parking lot somewhere in lower Massachusetts.  I forked over the $850 smackeroos,  loaded the heavy speakers into my vehicle and sped home.  Literally.  I think I averaged 85 mph all the way - including my driveway.

These were noticeably heavier than the CS2.3's were.  70 pounds a piece,  but relatively shorter than the previous pairs, and substantially shorter than the pair of CS3.6's that I would obtain later on.

Now here is where my appreciation for Thiel quite literally exploded.  I wired 'em up,  tossed a disc into the player, and started back to my seating position.  (Which was then as it is now,  approximately 10-12 feet away depending on what time of year it is and what holiday/home decor is going on.)  I was literally stopped in my tracks.  A true "a-ha!" moment if ever I had one.  The CS3.5's simply opened up everything into another sonic dimension.  For one thing there was a lot more bass,  but it was natural sounding bass,  as if it it wasn't being reproduced by a loudspeaker.  It had bounce...pressure.  It "fit" is the best way I can describe it,  it didn't crowd or muffle other things.  The mids and highs were indescribably defined.  Wow.  I put on Joni Mitchells's Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and cued up "Paprika Plains," bumping the track forward by 30 second intervals until I reached the point that Weather Report brings the tune to its end.  Damn!  Even at the modest volume level I was listening at,  that truly amazing finish could be felt.

For the record here I submit that I employed the bass EQ all of the time.  Not knowing a mosfet from a misfit,  I figured that Jim Thiel designed the system with that in mind and who was I to decide against using it?  I cannot offer an opinion to how they sounded without it.

And then I got silly.  Since joining the site in 2013 I have catalogued over 100 sales and purchases combined,  and this excludes the same I have catalogued via other sites and the two bricks and mortar shops I occassion here in New York metro.  My soon to be married nephew was bequeathed that particular pair of 3.5's.  and he still has them.

The convoluted point I am trying to reach here is that the described progression up the line was organic.  Each model paid tribute to the previous model while offering superior sonics.  The 2.2 struck me as very similar to the 2.3,  but the 3.5 just upped the ante by miles.

Various pairs of relatively local CS3.6's appeared on the sites from time to time,  and I let them slip away.  Some had seen some rough service - which struck me as odd for a speaker as revered as Thiel - people usually take very good care of them,  right?  Then a pair appeared on the Saturday Audio site,  or US Audio Mart - I forget which.  $1300.  Hmmm.A fellow member here messaged me to relate that he had only just been in their store recently and saw the speakers on display.  I pounced.  $300 shipping + $1300.  The other pairs I had let slip away were right in that average.  They still appear to be in that range currently.  Also,  it was the beginning of the new year and I was flush with holiday bonuses and tax refunds.  Whee!

Man,  did the seller over-pack the shipment.  I think I was swimming in cardboard dust and styrofoam peanuts for days. (I absolutely LOATHE the styrofoam peanuts.) 


What I was expecting was that same sort of bump,  that same sort of rush I experienced with the CS3.5's.  The 3.6's are physically larger than the CS3.5's so the drivers are positioned at different heights.  Where the CS3.5's defined everything at my preferred listening level, the CS3.6's would not do so until I turned up the volume.  This is not to imply that the CS3.6 is inferior to the CS3.5,  but it is a remarkable departure from it where as the progression I described from the CS2.2 to the CS3.5 was...well,  progressive?  A little more this,  a little more that as I moved ahead.  When I played the CS3.6's at volume levels higher than usual there was absolutely no doubt it was a Thiel.

I had to sell off all of my equipment last year because 2018 was very unkind to your's truly.  In a word,  it just sucked.  I shipped off the Modwright KWI200 integrated,  the Sony HAPZ1es,  the Marantz TT-15 Turntable...but I wouldn't ship the CS3.6's.  They arrived to me in excellent condition and I wanted to make sure that their new owner would receive them in the same condition.

All of my stuff was sold off this site.  The new owner of the CS3.6's picked them up.  I actually apologized for not having an amplifier on hand so he could listen.  But the buyer knew what he was getting....

Anyway...2019 has improved enough to the point where I started regrouping the necessities of my humble life.  I stumbled upon a Belles 250i integrated amp.  Wow.  This is SUCH a Thiel champion I can't restrain myself.

The biggest difference I am finding about my newly acquired CS2.4's is that they have a much narrower sweet spot than any of the other Thiel models I've owned.  Almost Magnepan-like.  I have been playing around with positioning,  as well as with a few of the remaining cables I hadn't sold off, and all is going well.  Was it Jim Thiel who mentioned the "other room" test?I was returning from my outside deck to the kitchen one afternoon and noticed how beautiful the sound was. There,  some twenty feet away from the right speaker,  partially blocked by two walls,  I thought,  "wow." 


And that's Thiel in a nutshell.

thosb...
Wow,  it's been quite the while since I've owned the 2.3's I'll do my best to lend you some idea...

When I moved up from the 2.2's to the 2.3's I perceived a richer midrange overall.  The highs were also more,  for lack of a better description,  defined.  The 2.3's also seemed to project into my listening room - my living room - further.  It was an upgrade in everything that was good with the 2.2's.

The last Thiels I owned before obtaining these 2.4's were the the 3.6's.  At that time I was enjoying a Modwright KWI200 Integrated amp,  200 watts 8 ohms,  400 watts 4 ohms - way more power than I'd ever need.  (Even though Thiels and Maggies are supposed to be "power hungry" I never had an amp or integrated that had more on tap than the Modwright did.) 


Thus far,  I am finding that these 2.4's are sonically closer to the 3.5's than they are to the 3.6's.  At modest volume level these speakers simply sing,  there's really no better description I could offer.  The 3.6's DID enjoy getting more juice tossed their way in order to open up the soundstage that these 2.4's provide in spades at  my modest levels.  I am finding that the sweet spot is tighter on these than the 2.2's, 2.3's, 3.5's & 3.6's.  Right now I'm still playing around with positioning them to obtain the best results.

What I've gotten with every Thiel model I've owned is a reminder how colored, and artificial sounding so many newly manufactured brands sound by comparison. A very valid point about Thiel is that they reveal everything they receive,  solid amplification with ample current is more important than mere watts per channel.  To my  humble ears I was most pleased with Pass Labs amps,  Balanced Audio Technology,  Modwright.  Of these three it was Pass Labs,  period.  The B.A.T. struck me as more reserved,  more conservative,  the highs didn't present as well as they did with the Pass Labs.  The Modwright was in every respect a solid performer, but again, to my ears,  it didn't match the Pass Labs in detail. 


Just before I obtained my Belles 250i integrated I was using an Audio Research DSi200 integrated - a switching amp,  or class "d."  This did not match at all well with the 2.4's.  To my ears it sounded like the amp was straining to be heard and,  true to Thiel in general,  that's what I heard.  When I obtained the Belles and wired it up the difference was immediate and palpable.  My newly acquired Thiels became Thiels again.


The ads I've been seeing for 2.3's seem to be hovering between $800 and $1100,  which is a pretty low point of entry for such a good speaker system.  They're truly remarkably refined loudspeakers.  The only other brand of loudpeaker I have such high regard for is Magnepan - and Jim Thiel once expressed his appreciation for planars himself.


One of the BIGGEST differences between the 2.4's and all the other models I've owned is where the cables get connected.  ON THE BACK!  Woohoo!  No more laying the speakers on their side to make the connections,  no more lifting 70+ pound cabinets to secure them and snaking the cable through the small tunnel.  This is ALMOST the reason to consider the 2.4's.  It also makes for swapping cables easier if you're into that. 

Just for the hell of it...

Another good artist to throw at your system is Ani DiFranco. Living In Clip is a good live recording showcasing some pretty dramatic dynamics. Plus I dig her guitar playing like a shovel. 

newtoncr...

I heartily suggest that you seek a Belles amplifier for your 2.4’s.  If you search on the shark you’ll find a couple 150A amplifiers for sale as well as a few of his preamps.  If the amps are in good shape, and if they’re anywhere near as good as my 250i Integrated, you’ll discover something remarkably focused on the types of music you enjoy.  Those amps hover around $650 - a “Thiel-like” bargain.  


Now, why am I so smitten with Belles?


While I don’t have the ability to conduct an A/B live comparison, 20/20 hindsight and impressions that have remained with me since experiencing them whisper Pass Labs - sans the price of entry. My Belles 250i Integrated  provides me with all the clean, articulate sonics that my Pass X150.5 amplifier did - at that time for me it was a match made in heaven. 


David Belles now makes Power Modules products - they have a website. David is in his eighties and stopped making high powered amplifiers because he couldn’t move them around like he used to.  He actually answers the phone, too. 


Over the years i have bought many pre-owned speakers, amps & preamps without the benefit of a live audition.  With Thiel being the sole exclusion, most of the other hardware’s manufacturers are still in business, producing new products. Most offered some degree of assistance on their “legacy”, discontinued models. Most of the time those of us who discovered Thiel did so on the pre-owner market - which is a fairly risky way to purchase something that can be subjected to abuse. I never heard a Thiel model before I wired ‘em into my setup. I’ve never been disappointed, either. 


Belles philosophy complements Thiel’s. Articulate, uncolored, accurate. Worth your while checking it out if you’re able.  

Heck, there’s a pair of CS 6 up for grabs right here on Audiogon for $1200, but either they are in pretty funky condition or the seller’s camera can’t do them justice.

In the not too distant past I probably woulda jumped ugly on ‘em based on the seller’s price alone but,  I’ve wisened up. A little.


Like many sellers here, I have used US Audiomart to buy and sell my equipment. A lot of people here advertise their equipment there at the same time as well - why not?  It’s free. 


My experiences there mirror those I have had here, all good. (I’ve had only ONE negative experience on Audiogon since joining, and that was from a buyer who claimed non-receipt of my shipment. Fortunately, but still unfortunate for moi, it wasn’t a “significant” amount of money so I simply refunded his payment in full. Never heard from him again.)


What this site could benefit from, a nice touch on the other site, would be to allow us to narrow our searches by state if we wish. I used to be able to input my zip code here and that would produce relatively good results, but no longer. This matters especially when searching for Thiels or other large, or heavy speakers. Shipping can prove costly. 


Also, the folks on the other site aren’t as diligent in providing feedback. I have four transactions that haven’t been rated there.  Methinks that’s important. 


On point to this thread;  “breaking in” my newly acquired CS2.4’s with the Belles 250i Integrated has been an absolute joy. While I can’t speak for any other Belles product, this one has met and exceeded my expectations. From its rather large external power supply, (which attaches to the amp via an umbilical) to the simple design of the faceplate, this continues to impress. Solid state power, tubed preamplifier section - well done all around. 


I have to assume that it runs class A/B because it does warm up after a little while. It’s not going to raise your room temperature, but compared to virtually every amp/integrated I’ve owned it runs warmer. 


Since a previous post, I have removed the maple blocks from under the speakers, opting instead to place them on small isolation blocks which the spikes settle firmly into. At this minimally lower height off the floor I find the separation to have improved - not the sweet spot. That I’m getting accustomed to. It still strikes me as being narrower than any of the previous models I’ve owned. 


There is more than merely sufficient bass response from the 2.4’s as well. The two versions of Ginger Baker’s “Cyril Davies” and “Cyril Davis” - same composition with different titles, are a good place to start comparing. On one version - the more “acoustic” version, the upright bass is sinewy, taut, yet taffy-like flexible - and the effect is both felt and heard clearly through these speakers. 


No doubt the quality of the Belles contributes a lot to such timbre, tension, and resonance. And no doubt that these speakers are up to the task of faithfully reproducing it. 

Neato. 

I think that the ongoing debate regarding cables is rendered moot when one considers what a difference an amp,  or a preamp,  or any piece of equipment contributes to a system's overall synergy.  Thiel took me on quite an interesting journey to find the "right" amplification in order to hear them at their best.  (Even though they sounded better than anything else I've heard hooked up with some old speaker wire I had lying around after I turned my Klipsch Epic 3's into CD cases.)  Come to think of it,  when I dismantled those Epics for the repurposing as CD cases I was surprised to discover that the internal, factory wiring was...speaker wire exactly like I used to hook them up.  Go figger.

After many an amp/preamp combo I finally stumbled upon Pass Labs.  Boing!  Kapow!  All that good stuff.  And I mean great stuff.  My CS3.5's (at the time) became incredible loudspeakers as opposed to merely great loudspeakers.  I had all my associated equipment, the amp and preamp,  the cd player,  the server,  the turntable,  maple platforms,  this and that, without ever considering upgrading the speaker wire, err...cables.  So I did.

I have to admit that all of the aforementioned equipment IS easier to judge as to whether or not any makes a tangible difference in bettering a system.  We also get to SEE all the aforementioned equipment joining the herd whereas cables disappear into the background.They don't glow,  they don't have remote controls,  there's no hands on finagling after we've connected 'em.  BORING!

So,  the very last thing I started paying attention to in my system were the cables.  Everything I had was still was hooked up with what the manufacturers provided in the boxes,  those Best Buy rca cable interconnects,  the power cords,  what have you.  I went around the corner to my local bricks and mortar audio shop in beautiful downtown Lake Grove, NY, and bought a bunch of Transparent Music Wave connects and speaker cables.  (The only cable I could not change was on the Marantz TT-15 turntable,  which was essentially a Clearaudio model with a Marantz badge slapped on it.)  For some silly reason they only supplied a proprietary cable which could not swapped out.  Harrrumph!

I had been enjoying my system for quite a while with the ordinary cables by this point.  Now, with all the new cables in place I settled back.  Did I hear a palpable,  tangible difference when I first hooked them up?  No,  I did not.  But here's the rub - after a good period of time had passed I was doing some house chores and had to un-hook most of my system.  In the interim one afternoon I decided that I needed musical accompaniment to my sanding and painting and scraping,  so I hooked up the 3.5's with the old speaker wire.

Jaw drop.  They sounded, thin - almost lifeless.  I double checked all the cables on everything.  All good.

While I will never spend the sort of money that "high end" esoteric cables ask for,  I've spent more than I ever thought I would.  I was a non-believer.  Ask Jafant.  Now my current system is all Transparent cables again.  I still have a spool of bare-assed, simple,  bigbox store speaker wire that I use occasionally to hook up a pair of Usher bookshelfs for kicks, but I'm sold on "better" cables.

So there's my two cents.

R. I. P. Ginger Baker. 

@tomthiel 

Glad to read below that your recent re-visit to my favorite Thiel model - the CS3.5 - has been included in your upgrade paths. For me this model is the no compromise model within those I have enjoyed thus far. 

I always employed the bass EQ @ the 20hz setting. I am not a very technically oriented fellow to dare replacing internal organs and whatnot. The first pair of 3.5’s I had suffered a punctured midrange when I attempted to see why one was intermittent. Thanks to Rob for repairing it. 

The “compromise” I encountered with the CS3.6 was that I had to play the music louder than I normally do. When driven a little more than my preferred level they were excellent, pure “Thiel.”  At lower volume level they weren’t as resolving. 

With the CS2.4 I find the soundstage to be very narrow. Again, when I play them a little above my normal level this opens up. The bass reproduction is particularly notable. The “other room” test confirms that. 

All of this falls under the IMHO submission. For me, the 3.5’s perform superbly at all listening levels. Yes, there are times when I am inspired by a piece of music and up the volume, but most of my listening is done at very conservative levels. It was the 3.5 model that literally stopped me in my tracks because of their articulate reproduction at a low volume level. 

The compromises I mention are small. I could live, and have lived with various perceived shortcomings before - on every piece of equipment I’ve owned. To find one’s optimum setup requires time, money, and opportunity. I am happy with my CS2.4’s currently, but I’d sell them in a heartbeat to get a pair of 3.5’s again. 

I’ll be following your progress. 

Thiels rule!

Hey kids,  just want to let you know that the payment options/rules for selling equipment here have changed with a suspiciously invasive set of requirements requiring a seller to declare him or herself a dealer or a merchant in order to complete a transaction. 

Because of this I am ending my membership in this otherwise excellent community. 

This thread and it’s contributors has been equally educating and just plain fun to follow. I wish you all the best this holiday season!

bluetone...

Your post did not mention if your pair of 3.5's came complete with the bass equalizer - IMHO the most important component of the model.  I have had six pairs of Thiels - starting with the 2,2,  2.3,  three pairs of 3.5 (don't ask),  3.6, and currently with a pair of 2.4's, which I am currently selling here on A'gon because I am returning to a monitor/subwoofer setup.  This will buy me the time I am willing to endure to find yet ANOTHER pair of 3.5's to purchase - regardless,  almost,  of price.  I am genuinely excited by the possibilities mentioned in this forum of updating 3.5's.


Like yourself, I began this epic journey returning to hifi with some fairly low-to-mid-fi equipment.  To recount all of the associated equipment I have thrown at these speakers since finding this site,  and this forum,  would bore the ears off even the most phile of audiophiles,  so I won't.  Suffice it to say that it's been a LOT.

I ask whether or not your pair came complete with the bass equalizer because,  IMHO,  the 3.5 doesn't necessarily benefit from employing one since,  with the bass eq employed in the chain,  the frequency response is 20HZ - 20KHZ.  The one issue with being able to employ the bass eq in the chain is that it required separates to do so.  An integrated amplifier or a receiver - which is just another,  busier integrated amplifier - required looping the eq through a tape monitor which,  again IMHO,  kind of negated the benefits the bass eq provided by adding another thing in the chain.  ( I apologize for getting so technical here. )


I absolutely concur with your statement that more power improves the sonics at low to moderate listening levels.  Eventually I was able to settle upon various amps that provided 150 watts @ 8ohms,  300 @ 4 ohms - the latter representing the load of "most" Thiel models and way more power than I would ever throw at them.  To my humble ears the 3.5's bested any other model I have owned in reproducing music at low to moderate volume levels.  I jumped off of the first two models mentioned too quickly to recall how well they managed to perform at my listening levels,  but I hasten to add that it was not because they were deficient in any way,  more so because they were so damn good and I wanted to move up the Thiel foodchain.

Don't be an idiot like me - hang onto your 3.5's forever.  Like every Thiel model they're an investment,  not a purchase.  Enjoy 'em!

bluetone...
Are you they guy who drove here and picked them up???
Jeeze....

Rob @ Coherent repaired my first paid of mids years ago when I drove a phillips head screwdriver through the cone trying to find out why the sound was intermiitent.  That pair of speakers was gifted to  my nephew not long afterward.  He still has them.

Viva la 3.5 !

jafant...

Yup.  As reluctant as I am to classify myself as a "business" selling or buying here,  A'gon stands alone as the site best suited toward doing so.  US Audiomart is fair at best,  and although a lot of the equipment advertised here appears there as well,  it is far simpler to communicate with people here.  What I do like about that site is the ability to sort searches by state,  something which A'gon should implement toot-suite.  [sp?]  ( A while back you COULD search within a geographical define by typing in a zip code,  but that disappeared with nary a word to the unwise. )

By the way, have you purchased any amplification yet?

jafant...
Like, wow - you finally committed to an amp!  Congratulations. Checked your system out in the Virtual Systems section - nice digs. The 2.4’s look remarkably more spiffy in a wood finish than plain ol’ black like the ones I have up for grabs here. (Again.)

Most of my current listening has been relegated to streaming on Qobuz since I’m spending a lotta time searching for suitable employment on the interweb. (I can use it as well on my main stereo but that’s over the hills and far away downstairs and my computer ain’t.)

I actually hooked up the 2.4’s again about a week ago to see if time had eroded any of my original observations. I still find that the imaging is very tight and the highs are not as “sparkly” as the other models I’ve owned. Bass response is excellent and just true. 
C’est la vie. 

Hey kids!

It's been a while since I've posted anything here, and it's been an equal length of while since I've sold anything here.

I don't know WTF A'gon has done to the site since I've been more or less MIA, but I've been trying to list a pair of CS2.4's for two days now and I keep running into obstacles listing them.

First, the site rejected my password to login.  I have not changed it since I joined.  New password?  Three attempts before it finally acknowledged that I am myself.

I get 90% through my listing, drop the photos into it, then I get to the final steps.  I am supposed to receive a code for verification, again proving that I am myself, and I receive "cannot send verification code."  Everything drops absolutely dead in the water there.

Anyway, if any member here is looking for a very decent pair of CS2.4's and lives in or close enough to NY to pick them up, look on Audiomart.  I am route 25 there.  I am giving up on trying to get them listed here.

PS:  I just added a Pro Ject Debut EVO turntable to my system, along with a Pro Ject DS tubed phono box.  Cheap seats really good stuff.  Listening to vinyl once gain is a treat.

Enjoy the upcoming Labor Day weekend, everyone!

Rather removed from the typical subject matter discussed here, I feel compelled to boast about the all too brief meeting I had earlier today with Tom Thiel - who is the new owner of the pair of CS 2.4’s we transacted for. 

To say the least, Tom is one of the most intrepid people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. After a quick listen and equally quick conversation regarding Theil and such, he was off to pick up another pair of Theils not too far from my place. I myself have traveled to some appreciably distant points to procure Thiels in the past, my very first pair of CS3.5’s were located in Massachusetts - a 250 mile four-to-five hour excursion depending on traffic. 
 

Such is what we do, isn’t it?

 

While I am currently astray from having Thiel in my setup, the Maggie MMG’s and REL sub I replaced the CS2.4’s for are more than a merely decent substitute. I have decided that I will continue with these until such a time arises that I may be able to buy yet ANOTHER pair of my absolute favorite model, the CS 3.5. This isn’t 20/20 hindsight as much as it is 20/20 regret for ever having sold off the three pairs that I once had. The CS 3.5 just does everything right for my humble ears. 
 

I am prepared, and fully aware of the fact that such a prospect will be of the upgraded version Tom has been hinting at - and I will be more than willing to pay the price. I believe I’ve uttered a couple of noteworthy opinions in this forum over the years, and either, and both still hold true - that Thiel is an investment, not merely a purchase, and that Thiel is essentially Magneplanar with BASS. 

 

Carry on folks!

@unsound. Your points regarding the existing similarities/differences between Thiel and Magnepan are, as usual, spot-on.  Obviously, since Tom was buying the CS 2.4’s we had to hear them. (I’m still with the Belles 250i Hybrid Integrated) After all, I am a 100% positive feedback member here. 

I played an Alison Kraus live CD unencumbered, just the Musical Fidelity unit, no DAC. And the Thiels were perfect. Damn, I love treble. Just for the heck of it we then listened to the MMG’s - again, just the CD player, no DAC involved. I then involved the sub at my preferred setting. 
 

In this context I will state that the 2.4’s were more articulate in the highs than the MMG’s were, but not with a margin that could make them look bad. Tom made a particularly memorable statement regarding how we perceive the upper registers or the lower ones shortly after this, and it hit me right between the eyes. 
 

I err toward appreciating, or paying more attention to the high end. My tolerance for bass response is probably well below most people’s, meaning that unless the speaker is woefully lacking in it, I can - for the lack of a better description - forgive it. My brain makes up for it in some manner. The Thiels bottom out @ 36hz, the MMG’s @ 50hz. The REL I’m using goes down to 30hz. My employment of the sub can probably best be described as minimal. I do like, and I do appreciate bass, but Thiel taught me well about articulation in both treble and bass. 
 

I will follow your suggestion to audition the new Thiel sub. I have had a previous less than satisfactory experience with their DWM bass panel when I had the 1.7 model. It was…awful. Apart from adding too many additional cables, it added zero to the sonics in total. Meh. 
 

I am slowly rebuilding my main setup. I will not be selling the Belles 250i Integrated. I had to sell my Pass Labs X150.5 amp due to a financial need at the time, an act that I regret to this day - which IMHO - was the best amp for Thiel. Articulate amp? Meet articulate loudspeaker. The Belles could probably use a checkup, and I’m looking for a tech for that purpose as we speak. 
 

I just added a Pro-ject cheap seats turntable mated to a Pro-ject DS tube phono stage, along with an Aurender N100H 2TB music server. My next mission is to look for a DAC that will complement the Aurender since the cheap seats Jolida FX Glass DAC is dated. 

@unsound. Oops, damn typos. Yes, I meant I will see if I can find a local dealer with the new Maggie sub. Unfortunately, my very local shop, Audio Den, is no longer carrying Magnepan, so I’ll probably have to make a trip into Manhattan. 
 

Re: your statement about my preferring the Thiel over the MMG treble wise. The Thiel was definitely “brighter” to my ears, but by no means was that a slight against the Maggies. 
 

I have to agree with your observation on recordings - everything matters in the final cut. As I was awaiting for the Aurender to complete downloading almost 1 TB of my music files, I more or less binged on Ani DiFranco on my Mac desktop. (I have my files on a portable SSD drive)  I’ll have to dive into who produced/engineered these albums because they sound excellent. I really dig DiFranco as a musician. 
 

Cheers!

@halifax:  Thank you for the heads up on the 3.5’s. At this moment in time I am simply making adjustments to improve my current setup, which only today scored a Mytek Liberty DAC to replace a Jolida FX Glass Tube unit. The Belles 250i Integrated 250i that I’ve been digging has a tubed (1) preamp section, and I kinda feel like I’m over-tubing myself with the aging Jolida. My Pro-ject turntable also uses a tubed phonostage. The Mytek is way more up to date, including MQA support. 
 

It is my humble opinion that Thiel, as well as Maggies, benefit from solid state amplification. In the past I stuck to this, more often than not incorporating tubed preamps in the mix to good effect. Unless I’m mistaken or misinformed by info obtained from the interweb, Coda was founded by a bunch of guys who once worked with Nelson Pass?  That association alone would give me reason to buy one. 
 

My current setup is: Belles 250i Mosftet Integrated Amplifier, Magnepan MMG, Musical Fidelity A35 disc player, REL T5i subwoofer, Pro-ject Debut Carbon EVO turntable, Pro-ject DS tube phonostage, Aurender N100H  2TB music server, and lastly the newly acquired Mytek Liberty DAC, and a Furutech power conditioner. The most expensive component to date has been the Aurender, which I bought in lieu of TMR’s refusal to accept my offer on a Pass Labs X150 Integrated. 
 

The next addition will in all likelihood be a Pass Labs integrated. Like that, my eventual re-association with a pair of CS 3.5’s is fairly far down the proverbial road. Being financially capable of obtaining either is the crux of the matter. In any case, such will be my “final” system. I am more than willing to wait for the upgraded versions of the CS 3.5’s which, I know, will cost substantially more than the pairs I have already had.  
 

PS: I always employed the CS 3.5 equalizer in my listening. To my ears the sonics were dull without it. 
 

Cheers, folks! 

Jafant…

My appreciation for the Belles 250i Integrated has as much to do with its outstanding sonics as it does, as such things develop over time, with its owner David Belles. There is little, make that zero, information available on this integrated anywhere to be had; even the far reaching and intrusive interweb fails to produce so much as sales brochure reproduction. Emails sent to Power Modules, his current company, have also failed to produce a reply. C’est la vie. 

During my wayward youth I, like so many others, sought after the most popular brands of the era -Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer, etc. In fact, until I stumbled upon Audiogon as I was internetting to replace a stereo receiver I was still in possession of one of those brands. When I first moved into this house in 1994 my first addition to my “collection” was a pair of Klipsch CF 3’s. Apart from the Klipsch and to some extent Marantz, there was no name behind the brand. There was Saul of course, and there was Paul. They had stories. There was nothing backing up the Pioneers, the Sansui’s, the Nakamichis, the most popular, consumer commercial brands back in the day. 
 

Not long after buying my first pair of Thiel - CS2.2 - I began reading about Jim Thiel. Nothing I had previously owned came close to producing the sound I was hearing and my curiosity grew. Unlike Belles, there is a TON of information regarding Jim Thiel’s history. I became attached. Personally. I believe that I’ve read everything there is available to read about Thiel the man, and Thiel the company. As I related to Tom Thiel during our all too brief personal introduction last week as he picked up my CS 2.4’s, there are only two brands of loudspeakers that have delivered an “aha!”  moment to my ears, Thiel and Magnepan. Suffice it to say the the CS3.5’s delivered this atomically. 
 

Just the construction of the Belles 250i alone is reason enough to appreciate it. The power supply is encased in a separate enclosure attached to the amp itself by an umbilical cord. Inside that box is a pretty damn big toroidal transformer. My uneducated assumption reasons that this was designed to reduce noise. I could be wrong - after all, I’ve previously stated that I don’t know a mosfet from a misfit, but I know what I like. (The Belles long form name is Belles 250i Mosfet Integrated Hybrid.) 

I am also assuming that the output rating for this may be 125 W into 8 ohms, 250 W into 4 ohms. (Given the absence of any officially disclaimed information.)  It seems right to me. The B. A. T. Integrated, as well as the Pass Labs X150.5 amplifier I previously owned were rated slightly higher @ 150 W 8 ohms, 300 W into 4 ohms. I’ve never had any amplification higher than those - and I don’t believe I will never have the need for it. 
 

The Belles is closer sonically to the Pass than I can say it is for the B. A. T.  I have always operated within the constrictions of my personal financial weather map. Sometimes it’s sunny and seventy degrees, sometimes it’s not. When the weather develops into the nasty and cold the first thing to suffer is my audio equipment. Fortunately equipment is merely a possession that can be substituted or eventually replaced. With even better stuff! 
 

At this moment I have a pretty darn good cheap-seats setup. A quick, unscientific or mathematically precise summation lands this at around…$4K give or take. Not too shabby. 
 

I guess this means that I don’t miss the B. A. T. 

 

Cheers! 

My next house will have a more suitable listening space!

@Kevinbreezer…

I just picked up a pair of beautiful CS6. Nice to be back in Thielworld. 

@Kevinbreezer…

I just picked up a pair of beautiful CS6. Nice to be back in Thielworld. 

@duramax…during the short transport from the car into my house one of the speakers suffered a fairly noticeable surface scratch on its back, otherwise both were in excellent condition.  The scratch didn’t pierce the veneer but it is there if you listen from the rear. Doh!

As someone who has previously owned a few models on the past, I will say that my immediate impression is that these are the closest to what I loved most about the 3.5’s - that at low and moderate volume level they leave nothing to be desired. 
It was only a week ago that I very nearly committed to buying a pair of 3.5’s from an upstate NY retailer, but thought the better of it after speaking with them and their poor condition was made more obvious. (Rough condition, dimpled drivers, and exorbitant shipping costs wound up that decision.). As much as I continue to think the 3.5’s are the best, a prolonged adventure of repair and replacement just isn’t in the cards financially. 
 

I played a couple of tunes that I like to use when seeing what a speaker is capable of doing. “Crocus” by Ani DiFranco and “ Down To The Well” by Kevin Gordon. (With more than a helping hand from Lucinda Williams.) The former for the bass and the latter for overall timbre. The  CS’s didn’t let me down. The only thing I can say about the treble is that it strikes me as being a little less resolute than what I got from 2.4’s and 3.6’s, but this is quibbling. 
 

I am cussing respectfully the legacy of Thiel with these only because I find that placing the connections on the bottom of a 170 pound Easter Island sculpture is just…. I won’t be cable swapping on these any time soon. 
 

Updated pics in virtual systems. 
 

Thanks to everyone.